2017 Tirreno-Adriatico, March 8-14, WT

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Worrying ITT by Dumoulin.. Seems only Sky and BMC people can transform from ITT monster into GT guys without losing their ITT standard

 

[johnymax]

I can't believe Spilak lost to Pozzovivo in a battle for 10th place. I don't know what has happened to his TT ability in the last year. It's almost an Uran like drop off. Although I've noticed most Katusha raiders did poorly last year in TTs. It'll be interesting to follow Martin's curve of results in ITTs. He already lost the ITT in Algarve and wasn't that good in P-N.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Dennis won as expected - Hepburn was the surprise, especially seeing Durbridge is going better in this discipline.

Interesting the Australian TTT over around 40kms was won by Dennis by 59 seconds and Hepburn was around 1m and 30 second down - Interesting thing is that in that race Durbridge was 3 seconds ahead of Dennis at the halfway split - Anyway its proving a decent form race at this early stage of the year.

Hepburn is flying at the moment - http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=30941 - I think that's comfortably his best ever performance in a hard race.

Surprised Hepburn made the final selection for the hilly stage 5 - Actually he and Durbridge are climbing unusually well - Though both were part of the nine riders coming from altitude training in South Africa.

 

[johnymax]

Do you guys consider Dennis the best ITT rider in the World right now? I think he is.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re:

Do you guys consider Dennis the best ITT rider in the World right now? I think he is.

On shorter distances probably, but he has to earn this title by winning far longer ITTs.

 

[huangho]

Re: Re:

2015 Quintana lost 1:01 on Dennis in 13km... but for tomorrow 1:06 should be enough.

That was 2015, NQ has improved a lot in TT since then.

TBH I don't see him losing more than 40 secs to Dennis in 10k

Almost... he lost 41"

It was too short for Dennis to have a chance.

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

Dennis almost beat Dumoulin by half a minute.

I don't think Dennis will contend for the top-3 in the Giro, but what a watt-monster that guy is. And Tom obviously did very badly, you win some uphill, you lose something elsewhere.

He'll finish top in the top 15, if everything goes according to plan he could perform on a similar level as Jungels in 2016.

 

[May0maniac]

Also respect for Pozzovivo, the night before the big MTF he had fever and was vomiting (Sinus problems) and still finished 7th on the stage.
You also have to consider the fact that being ill probably messed with his recovery, but he was still able to limit the damage on the Fermo stage that didn't really suit him that much from the start.

 

[claude cat]

Re:

wtf i just saw?

https://youtu.be/kaEkTDjKPrI

I guess nothing was going to interrupt her stroll.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Dennis won as expected - Hepburn was the surprise, especially seeing Durbridge is going better in this discipline.

Interesting the Australian TTT over around 40kms was won by Dennis by 59 seconds and Hepburn was around 1m and 30 second down - Interesting thing is that in that race Durbridge was 3 seconds ahead of Dennis at the halfway split - Anyway its proving a decent form race at this early stage of the year.

Hepburn is flying at the moment - http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=30941 - I think that's comfortably his best ever performance in a hard race.

Surprised Hepburn made the final selection for the hilly stage 5 - Actually he and Durbridge are climbing unusually well - Though both were part of the nine riders coming from altitude training in South Africa.

Hepburn was very good on rolling stages as an U23, his cameo at L'Avenir was a prime example. Orica have hopefully realised that they're wasting Hepburn if they continue to use him purely as a draft horse.

Also, Hepburn skipped South Africa for some extra time back home in Brisbane.

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

Do you guys consider Dennis the best ITT rider in the World right now? I think he is.

Up to about 15-20kms, yes. Then others take over, like Martin, Kiriyenka etc. Dennis is still up there though.

 

[StryderHells]

Re:

Worrying ITT by Dumoulin.. Seems only Sky and BMC people can transform from ITT monster into GT guys without losing their ITT standard

Who did BMC transform from ITT monster to GT guy?

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Worrying ITT by Dumoulin.. Seems only Sky and BMC people can transform from ITT monster into GT guys without losing their ITT standard

Who did BMC transform from ITT monster to GT guy?

Maybe it's supposed to be Dennis ? Someone who will really put the fear into people in a GT !

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Castroviejo and Dumoulin on the other hand did a poor ITT for their standards. Battle for the GC on the climbs took a toll on them (or maybe they didn't feel right today I don't know).

Both seem to want to transform into Wiggins-style GC riders, but may, in fact, end up as second-rate Geraint Thomases. Time will tell...

Based on Dumoulin's Vuelta ride he is already ahead of Thomas as far as GT riding goes. Thomas is more of an unknown quantity over three weeks as team leader. It's natural that good TT riders like those two use Wiggins as an example because Wiggins was never one of the best climbers and needed to retain his TT strength to have any chance to win a GT. Uran podiumed two Giro's and improved his TT but his climbing was weakened. Evans did the same with his TT but did not lose much with his climbing. TJVG seemed to be heading in the same direction as Wiggins also but his climbing has gone off the rails and even his TT as well. Not a good example !

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Re: Re:

Castroviejo and Dumoulin on the other hand did a poor ITT for their standards. Battle for the GC on the climbs took a toll on them (or maybe they didn't feel right today I don't know).

Both seem to want to transform into Wiggins-style GC riders, but may, in fact, end up as second-rate Geraint Thomases. Time will tell...

Based on Dumoulin's Vuelta ride he is already ahead of Thomas as far as GT riding goes. Thomas is more of an unknown quantity over three weeks as team leader. It's natural that good TT riders like those two use Wiggins as an example because Wiggins was never one of the best climbers and needed to retain his TT strength to have any chance to win a GT. Uran podiumed two Giro's and improved his TT but his climbing was weakened. Evans did the same with his TT but did not lose much with his climbing. TJVG seemed to be heading in the same direction as Wiggins also but his climbing has gone off the rails and even his TT as well. Not a good example !

The Vuelta isn't like the other GTs, IMO... The Giro and Tour are both far harder races, with more riders in peak form. Riders like Joaquim Rodriguez have commented on that in the recent past, if I'm not mistaken.

Going by the 2015 Tour de France, I'd say G. has shown a lot more potential. 4th in GC up until after stage 18 as an occasional dom is pretty impressive. Cracking on day 19 vs. day 20 ...not really a huge difference, either. Also, Dumoulin didn't have to tackle the Madeleine and Croix de Fer that day...

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Castroviejo and Dumoulin on the other hand did a poor ITT for their standards. Battle for the GC on the climbs took a toll on them (or maybe they didn't feel right today I don't know).

Both seem to want to transform into Wiggins-style GC riders, but may, in fact, end up as second-rate Geraint Thomases. Time will tell...

Based on Dumoulin's Vuelta ride he is already ahead of Thomas as far as GT riding goes. Thomas is more of an unknown quantity over three weeks as team leader. It's natural that good TT riders like those two use Wiggins as an example because Wiggins was never one of the best climbers and needed to retain his TT strength to have any chance to win a GT. Uran podiumed two Giro's and improved his TT but his climbing was weakened. Evans did the same with his TT but did not lose much with his climbing. TJVG seemed to be heading in the same direction as Wiggins also but his climbing has gone off the rails and even his TT as well. Not a good example !

The Vuelta isn't like the other GTs, IMO... The Giro and Tour are both far harder races, with more riders in peak form. Riders like Joaquim Rodriguez have commented on that in the recent past, if I'm not mistaken.

Going by the 2015 Tour de France, I'd say G. has shown a lot more potential. 4th in GC up until after stage 18 as an occasional dom is pretty impressive. Cracking on day 19 vs. day 20 ...not really a huge difference, either. Also, Dumoulin didn't have to tackle the Madeleine and Croix de Fer that day...

That Vuelta had 2 absolute monster stages as well. I thibk yesterday was partially a bad day, as he didnt feel great on the Fermo stage either

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Castroviejo and Dumoulin on the other hand did a poor ITT for their standards. Battle for the GC on the climbs took a toll on them (or maybe they didn't feel right today I don't know).

Both seem to want to transform into Wiggins-style GC riders, but may, in fact, end up as second-rate Geraint Thomases. Time will tell...

Based on Dumoulin's Vuelta ride he is already ahead of Thomas as far as GT riding goes. Thomas is more of an unknown quantity over three weeks as team leader. It's natural that good TT riders like those two use Wiggins as an example because Wiggins was never one of the best climbers and needed to retain his TT strength to have any chance to win a GT. Uran podiumed two Giro's and improved his TT but his climbing was weakened. Evans did the same with his TT but did not lose much with his climbing. TJVG seemed to be heading in the same direction as Wiggins also but his climbing has gone off the rails and even his TT as well. Not a good example !

The Vuelta isn't like the other GTs, IMO... The Giro and Tour are both far harder races, with more riders in peak form. Riders like Joaquim Rodriguez have commented on that in the recent past, if I'm not mistaken.

Going by the 2015 Tour de France, I'd say G. has shown a lot more potential. 4th in GC up until after stage 18 as an occasional dom is pretty impressive. Cracking on day 19 vs. day 20 ...not really a huge difference, either. Also, Dumoulin didn't have to tackle the Madeleine and Croix de Fer that day...

Maybe but Dumoulin still made riders like Aru work hard to beat him. I knew that Astana would work Dumoulin over eventually but his ride was full of merit. Will be interesting to see how Thomas goes in the Giro as a team leader. I remember when Kreuziger got his chance in the Giro he flopped but still had a good ride in the 2013 Tour when he wasn't team leader. Some riders just don't handle pressure very well as a team leader when things start to go wrong.

 

[yaco]

Re:

Do you guys consider Dennis the best ITT rider in the World right now? I think he is.

Has been disappointing in the last 2 world Championships on courses suited - 7th in 2015, though a mechanical dropped him one place and disappointing in 2016.

Unlucky at the 2016 Olympics when he's t-Bars broke which cost him a bronze medal and possibly a silver medal - And that was on a profile that wasn't totally suitable.

His form says he should win a World ITT in the next two years

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Dennis won as expected - Hepburn was the surprise, especially seeing Durbridge is going better in this discipline.

Interesting the Australian TTT over around 40kms was won by Dennis by 59 seconds and Hepburn was around 1m and 30 second down - Interesting thing is that in that race Durbridge was 3 seconds ahead of Dennis at the halfway split - Anyway its proving a decent form race at this early stage of the year.

Hepburn is flying at the moment - http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=30941 - I think that's comfortably his best ever performance in a hard race.

Surprised Hepburn made the final selection for the hilly stage 5 - Actually he and Durbridge are climbing unusually well - Though both were part of the nine riders coming from altitude training in South Africa.

Hepburn was very good on rolling stages as an U23, his cameo at L'Avenir was a prime example. Orica have hopefully realised that they're wasting Hepburn if they continue to use him purely as a draft horse.

Also, Hepburn skipped South Africa for some extra time back home in Brisbane.

Fair enough about Hepburn being in Brisbane - I was surprised how effective Hepburn was in the rolling stage 5, but even more surprised how he performed in the ITT, seeing how much he worked in stage 5 - Orica held Durbridge back in stage 5 to focus on the stage 5 ITT - Hard to see Hepburn being used as anything else as a draft horse in the WT races.

 

[yaco]

Confident that Thomas can finish top 5 in the GC, as long as he paces himself in the climbing stages - The 68km of TT does play to his strengths - I am also confident that Dennis will give himself every possibility to be a GT GC contender - Though he'll probably end up a one week stage racer.

 

[jaylew]

Re:

Do you guys consider Dennis the best ITT rider in the World right now? I think he is.

I don't think anyone really holds that title right now. Martin has declined, Cancellara has retired, Dumo and Dennis are focusing on GTs, Malori and Phinney haven't made it fully back from injury, other guys are either strong at short or long TTs but not both...I guess I'd still say Martin if I had to say who's currently the best but without any real conviction. Maybe it's Froome

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Do you guys consider Dennis the best ITT rider in the World right now? I think he is.

I don't think anyone really holds that title right now. Martin has declined, Cancellara has retired, Dumo and Dennis are focusing on GTs, Malori and Phinney haven't made it fully back from injury, other guys are either strong at short or long TTs but not both...I guess I'd still say Martin if I had to say who's currently the best but without any real conviction. Maybe it's Froome

It's definitely not Martin anymore but no one is dominating like Martin and Cancellara used to. Phinney has been disappointing. Dennis is the one that has improved the most.

 

[Breh]

Ofcourse Martin is still the best.

Reigning champion in both ITT and TTT. Mediocre placings in MTT's and training races like Algarve matter very little.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Ofcourse Martin is still the best.

Reigning champion in both ITT and TTT. Mediocre placings in MTT's and training races like Algarve matter very little.

But not dominating TTs the way he used to.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Do you guys consider Dennis the best ITT rider in the World right now? I think he is.

I don't think anyone really holds that title right now. Martin has declined, Cancellara has retired, Dumo and Dennis are focusing on GTs, Malori and Phinney haven't made it fully back from injury, other guys are either strong at short or long TTs but not both...I guess I'd still say Martin if I had to say who's currently the best but without any real conviction. Maybe it's Froome

It's definitely not Martin anymore but no one is dominating like Martin and Cancellara used to. Phinney has been disappointing. Dennis is the one that has improved the most.

Does potentially beg the question whether he is robbing Peter to pay Paul by attempting the GC route. Whilst he most certainly can climb well, will he ever be at the "cutting edge" and have sustain it for a full GT ? As against being potentially the best ITTer in the business ..... with the capacity to win major one week tours and GT ITTs ?