2019 Giro d'Italia stage 9: Riccione - San Marino 34.7km ITT

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

Tolhoek was definitely impressive in the Tour last year, but I don't think he's good enough for the kind of work you expect from a last man for a GT favorite who has to defend the jersey.

Yeah meanwhile both Gesink and De Plus were showing great form this season, especially in the classics before the Giro. I even read in an interview Gesink said he hasn't been training this hard ever since he went to the GC himself as the leader. But if they all go to the Tour that will be some team though to rival Ineos.

With the obvious caveat that is Dylan Groenwegen and their split focus.

 

[Lequack]

Stage 9 Analysis w/ R Moore, L Birnie, D Friebe (44:18 English) — cyclingpodcast
http://www.steephill.tv/players/720/audioboom/?title=Stage+9+Analysis+w/+R+Moore,+L+Birnie,+D+Friebe&dashboard=giro-d-italia&id=7265213-stage-9-riccione-to-san-marino-giro-d-italia-2019&yr=2019

23 Big Photos from the Stage 9 ITT — rcs/corvos/bettini
http://www.steephill.tv/2019/giro-d-italia/photos/stage-09/

 

[Ludwigzgz]

Re: Re:

The Breakaway: Stage 9 Analysis (with Bradley Wiggins and Simon Gerrans) | Giro d’Italia 2019 | Cycling | Eurosport

In Eurosport Spanish the Analysis is with Alberto Contador

Any version with subtitles?

El Pistolero says interesting things, not the typical phrases that do not say anything.
Example, asked about the usual... "low risk" attitude of Movistar "If Movistar had run more aggressive, Quintana would have taken the first tour for Colombia in 2013"

 

[Red Rick]

Nibali's thorax looks strangly exploded there

 

[Lequack]

Backstage pass Mitchelton SCOTT
TOUGH TIME TRIAL | 2019 GIRO D'ITALIA STAGE 9
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY_HjM0sidg

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Re: Re:

Tolhoek was definitely impressive in the Tour last year, but I don't think he's good enough for the kind of work you expect from a last man for a GT favorite who has to defend the jersey.

Yeah meanwhile both Gesink and De Plus were showing great form this season, especially in the classics before the Giro. I even read in an interview Gesink said he hasn't been training this hard ever since he went to the GC himself as the leader. But if they all go to the Tour that will be some team though to rival Ineos.

With the obvious caveat that is Dylan Groenwegen and their split focus.

I've been thinking about this as well, but on the other hand, you need guys to work on the flat as well. You do still lose Groenewegen's spot, but the guys doing his leadout, could be the same guys that work on the flat...
But if you want to bring all of Roglic, Kruijswijck, Bennett, Gesink, De Plus & Kelderman(*)... there are no spots left. It might also be a bit too "top-heavy" for a GT selection. But yeah, who do you leave out.

edit: (*)brainfart

 

[Leinster]

Re: Re:

I've been thinking about this as well, but on the other hand, you need guys to work on the flat as well. You do still lose Groenewegen's spot, but the guys doing his leadout, could be the same guys that work on the flat...
But if you want to bring all of Roglic, Kruijswijck, Bennett, Gesink, De Plus & Kelderman... there are no spots left. It might also be a bit too "top-heavy" for a GT selection. But yeah, who do you leave out.

You could start by leaving out Dumoulin's domestique.

Jumbo will presumably bring Tony Martin. He can work on the flat and medium-hilly stages, and can be part of a leadout train for Groenewegen. Add Teunissen and you have a solid 3-man sprint team who can be a part of controlling the front of the bunch if needed.

 

[Nirvana]

It always amaze me how, a rider generally overrated like Nibali, is everytime underrated when it comes to TT, and that after a decade of showing that when he's in shape he's easily top ten material and occasionally even top 5.
Whereas for other riders occasional good performaces on particular citcumstances are enough to pump the prediction, something like Yates and Lopez suddenly becoming contender was out of the world.

Anyway i wonder where are the ones that since the beginning of the year repeatedly blamed the "terrible" Merida TT bikes to justify Dennis crapness. Well, maybe now they are thinking that with a BMC or a Pinarello Nibali would be the dominator of TTs scene :lol:

 

[tobydawq]

Re:

It always amaze me how, a rider generally overrated like Nibali, is everytime underrated when it comes to TT, and that after a decade of showing that when he's in shape he's easily top ten material and occasionally even top 5.
Whereas for other riders occasional good performaces on particular citcumstances are enough to pump the prediction, something like Yates and Lopez suddenly becoming contender was out of the world.

Anyway i wonder where are the ones that since the beginning of the year repeatedly blamed the "terrible" Merida TT bikes to justify Dennis crapness. Well, maybe now they are thinking that with a BMC or a Pinarello Nibali would be the dominator of TTs scene :lol:

This TT had an average speed of around 40 kph. The aerodynamic efficiency of the bike would hardly have played the biggest of roles yesterday.

 

[SafeBet]

I rewatched the stage and I gotta say I'm really impressed with Campenaerts performance. I never thought he would stand a chance on this route but he was a monster on the flat part and limited his losses uphill. He must be the favorite for the final TT if healthy.

Zakarin also was better than (I) expected. He's clearly not the rider he was until two years ago but that was a good performance considering how bad of a hike handler he is.

EF amazing improvement in TTs keeps on: Kangert and Carthy in the top10, and Dombrowski 11th in the uphill segment. Let's see what they can do in the high mountains.

Nibali was his usual self, one consistent motherf*cker in GT time trials. He looked very focused after the stage, the weather doesn't bother him, I'm not sure he can drop anybody uphill but he sure is in good position to benefit from any Roglic mishaps.

Terrible performances by Yates and Lopez. I suspect at least one of them is ill, the rain is probably taking a toll on riders. They have time to recover though, and could still be dangerous come the third week.

Landa as expected. I hope Unzue doesn't convince him to ride conservatively. He should go berserk whenever a climb appears, while Carapaz follows wheels.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

It always amaze me how, a rider generally overrated like Nibali, is everytime underrated when it comes to TT, and that after a decade of showing that when he's in shape he's easily top ten material and occasionally even top 5.
Whereas for other riders occasional good performaces on particular citcumstances are enough to pump the prediction, something like Yates and Lopez suddenly becoming contender was out of the world.

Anyway i wonder where are the ones that since the beginning of the year repeatedly blamed the "terrible" Merida TT bikes to justify Dennis crapness. Well, maybe now they are thinking that with a BMC or a Pinarello Nibali would be the dominator of TTs scene :lol:

Nibali's ITTs can be underrated because of who we compare him to. We've compared him to Froome and Contador for ages, and while Nibali does indeed not have the positive outliers in his ITTs, in GTs he doesn't really have terrible ones either.

And now the new GC contenders are mainly ones that are also ITT specialists, it's kinda easy to put Nibali in the same category as the rest of the climbers.

 

[Nirvana]

Re: Re:

It always amaze me how, a rider generally overrated like Nibali, is everytime underrated when it comes to TT, and that after a decade of showing that when he's in shape he's easily top ten material and occasionally even top 5.
Whereas for other riders occasional good performaces on particular citcumstances are enough to pump the prediction, something like Yates and Lopez suddenly becoming contender was out of the world.

Anyway i wonder where are the ones that since the beginning of the year repeatedly blamed the "terrible" Merida TT bikes to justify Dennis crapness. Well, maybe now they are thinking that with a BMC or a Pinarello Nibali would be the dominator of TTs scene :lol:

This TT had an average speed of around 40 kph. The aerodynamic efficiency of the bike would hardly have played the biggest of roles yesterday.

The only high speed TT of Dennis this year was San Benedetto at the Tirreno in which he rode 11:32 in bad weather with strong wind, only a dozen of second worse than the previous two years in good weather.
The one really bad that ignited the discussion was Pais Vasco at slower speed than yesterday, other than that two there is only the national championships again on hilly terrain in which he was only 9 seconds slower than last year, a difference hardly relevant on 40 kms.

There aren't a lot of time trialists on the team to compare but last time Nibali rode a flat TT at the Vuelta two years ago finished 3rd and this winter they even said they worked a lot in the wind tunnel with McLaren to improve the bike so it's hard to think that has worsen in the meantime. This year they rode a strong TTT in UAE at 56,5 km/h on pan flat roads despite having Nibali and Caruso out of shape in thier first day of racing.

 

[Nirvana]

Re: Re:

It always amaze me how, a rider generally overrated like Nibali, is everytime underrated when it comes to TT, and that after a decade of showing that when he's in shape he's easily top ten material and occasionally even top 5.
Whereas for other riders occasional good performaces on particular citcumstances are enough to pump the prediction, something like Yates and Lopez suddenly becoming contender was out of the world.

Anyway i wonder where are the ones that since the beginning of the year repeatedly blamed the "terrible" Merida TT bikes to justify Dennis crapness. Well, maybe now they are thinking that with a BMC or a Pinarello Nibali would be the dominator of TTs scene :lol:

Nibali's ITTs can be underrated because of who we compare him to. We've compared him to Froome and Contador for ages, and while Nibali does indeed not have the positive outliers in his ITTs, in GTs he doesn't really have terrible ones either.

And now the new GC contenders are mainly ones that are also ITT specialists, it's kinda easy to put Nibali in the same category as the rest of the climbers.

But putting him with pure climbers that usually ends up around 20th/30th or even worse is underrating him a lot, he's not Froome, Dumoulin or Roglic but when in shape there aren't a lot more riders that are stronger than him, the TT is more a weapon for him than climbing if we exclude long and hard stages. This year he even did very well in the opening TT and usually short ones are the worst for him.

 

[Red Rick]

I'm not saying he's rated correctly, I'm saying why I think he gets underrated.

Also, ever since he stopped riding GCs in smaller stage races in the spring he's been consistently with the other pure climbers in that disciplin in those races.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re: Re:

It always amaze me how, a rider generally overrated like Nibali, is everytime underrated when it comes to TT, and that after a decade of showing that when he's in shape he's easily top ten material and occasionally even top 5.
Whereas for other riders occasional good performaces on particular citcumstances are enough to pump the prediction, something like Yates and Lopez suddenly becoming contender was out of the world.

Anyway i wonder where are the ones that since the beginning of the year repeatedly blamed the "terrible" Merida TT bikes to justify Dennis crapness. Well, maybe now they are thinking that with a BMC or a Pinarello Nibali would be the dominator of TTs scene :lol:

Nibali's ITTs can be underrated because of who we compare him to. We've compared him to Froome and Contador for ages, and while Nibali does indeed not have the positive outliers in his ITTs, in GTs he doesn't really have terrible ones either.

And now the new GC contenders are mainly ones that are also ITT specialists, it's kinda easy to put Nibali in the same category as the rest of the climbers.

When in form, Nibali usually rides very strong ITT's in GT's, and the longer they are, the better. At least I recall him doing great rides in the 2013 Giro and the 2014 Tour; like Contador level rides. But the thing is that in recent years we have seen less ITT's, and shorter distances when they do have them, so we don't have too many Nibali rides to rate/compare since his generally accepted peak seasons. Anyway, Nibs has performed very well in stages 1 and 9 here, and couldn't be happier with his position in the overall standings. Bernal out. Dumoulin out. Significant time gained on Landa, Lopez, and more importantly Yates. A week before this race he was at best the fifth favourite. Now he is second pick.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Re: Re:

I've been thinking about this as well, but on the other hand, you need guys to work on the flat as well. You do still lose Groenewegen's spot, but the guys doing his leadout, could be the same guys that work on the flat...
But if you want to bring all of Roglic, Kruijswijck, Bennett, Gesink, De Plus & Kelderman... there are no spots left. It might also be a bit too "top-heavy" for a GT selection. But yeah, who do you leave out.

You could start by leaving out Dumoulin's domestique.

Jumbo will presumably bring Tony Martin. He can work on the flat and medium-hilly stages, and can be part of a leadout train for Groenewegen. Add Teunissen and you have a solid 3-man sprint team who can be a part of controlling the front of the bunch if needed.

lol, i wrote this right before going to sleep, i guess i was trying to think about all the Dutch that missed the Giro due to an injury and i mopped up Kelderman with Gesink etc. In my bed, as i was falling asleep, i remembered what i had posted, but i wasn't going to get up just to edit it. Haha.

Point being, Jumbo can put together a packed team for TDF.