2019 Tour de France – Stage 6 – Mulhouse–LPDBF - 157 km

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Re: Re:

Rollthedice said:
JosephK said:
Koronin said:
Midnightfright said:
Lequack said:
That's how Geraint won last year. He always put in these last km sprints and gained seconds here and there, but enough in the end.
When you consider his time trial advantage he has on the other contenders thats all he needs to do. The onus is on them to change that. The annoying part is Ineos could well be too strong again for that to be allowed to happen

Unless Thomas has a crash this has just become his race to lose. IF Pinot can hold it together in the final week he's got one of the other 2 podium spots. IMO it's only the 3rd spot on the podium that is up for grabs and I saw nothing from Quintana to say he has any shot at it today.
I have to agree, for the most part, especially about Thomas having it sewed up (barring a crash). I agree that Pinot should podium if he doesn't have bad luck (crash or illness). Still expecting Bernal to be allowed by Ineos to podium if he wants to. I don't think ######## Landa can make top 5. The Giro is in his legs.
That was Carapaz who won the Giro, not Quintana. Maybe Nairo still has the 2017 Giro in his legs.
Right. My bad. :eek:
 
Re: Re:

Koronin said:
JosephK said:
Koronin said:
Midnightfright said:
Lequack said:
That's how Geraint won last year. He always put in these last km sprints and gained seconds here and there, but enough in the end.
When you consider his time trial advantage he has on the other contenders thats all he needs to do. The onus is on them to change that. The annoying part is Ineos could well be too strong again for that to be allowed to happen

Unless Thomas has a crash this has just become his race to lose. IF Pinot can hold it together in the final week he's got one of the other 2 podium spots. IMO it's only the 3rd spot on the podium that is up for grabs and I saw nothing from Quintana to say he has any shot at it today.
I have to agree, for the most part, especially about Thomas having it sewed up (barring a crash). I agree that Pinot should podium if he doesn't have bad luck (crash or illness). Still expecting Bernal to be allowed by Ineos to podium if he wants to. I don't think Quintana or Landa can make top 5. The Giro is in their legs.

Quintana wasn't at the Giro, however, at this point I'm with you that it's unlikely either one makes top 5. I think you're right that Bernal will be allowed to race for the podium as long as it doesn't hurt Thomas' overall GC.
Yes, embarrassing of me. But it feels like he has the Giro in his legs. :eek:
 
There was a statements battle not a GC battle. You can't expect significant gaps on this ridiculous finale. Landa most likely didn't get the memo that there was another murito after the usual finish because nobody in their right mind could think they can go all the way attacking from 4 km on this type of finish. It killed the excitement of an MTF in favor of a few minutes of painful circus.
 
Re:

Rollthedice said:
There was a statements battle not a GC battle. You can't expect significant gaps on this ridiculous finale. Landa most likely didn't get the memo that there was another murito after the usual finish because nobody in their right mind could think they can go all the way on this type of finish. It killed the excitement of an MTF in favor of a few minutes painful circus.
This was basically Peyragudes v.2. But, but, but, its steep!

Nope, stop it. In hindsight, it was easy to predict how the stage would unfold when you add such an element to an otherwise nice, early and short MTF. It comes down to a waiting game. I thought the general nature of the stage would make it less significant, it didn't, and everyone just waited and basically rendered the rest of the climb pointless in some aspect. In order for this climb to be meaningful, it needs to be raced FULL GAS like Sky did in 2012 and Astana did in 2014. You can make a difference on the first 4 kilometres, then you have the flat part and the gimmicky 20% op to the old finish, but thats of lesser importance.
 
Chapeau Teuns and Ciccone - fought to a standstill nearly. Ala better then expected, Bardet can go home now, G sprinting up a 24% gradient - do you laugh or applaud? Team Ineos played it dead right - let the peloton dawdle along lead by 1 QS rider then follow Movistar who should have been at the front much earlier.

Pinot (and George Bennett!) still in the hunt for a podium spot, but we have still to see how it goes up a long climb and not these Vuelta-style finishes.
 
Re: Re:

Valv.Piti said:
Cance > TheRest said:
Valv.Piti said:
Cance > TheRest said:
Valv.Piti said:
****** stage again. Almost watched the entirety of these Vosges stage cause they used to be great fun, but that this was just super disappointing.

Hopefully the Massifs will be better. It only can be. If it isn't, I probably won't watch much of the rest of the Tour.
It sounds like you just had unrealistic expectations. Why did you hope something major was gonna unfold, when every GC contender is still fresh and when you know how the last 3 ascents of PdBF have gone??
It seems like you don't know how the last 3 ascents have gone.

2012 - big time gaps, great racing.
2014 - big time gaps, good racing.
2017 - decent time gaps, decent racing.
2019 - 1 km sprint, bad racing, close to no timegaps.

I can remember, more or less, all the of important mountain stages from mid 2000's and onwards. I know what I talk about and this one was NOT how the other MTFs unfolded. I don't need to check no results, I know when I watch ****.
Are you trying to be funny valv?
No, Im not trying to be funny. Go look at the results at PCS, watch the last climb on Youtube etc. I have no clue what you are on about - the ascents in 2012 and 2014 were full gas from bottom to the top and relatively big gaps considering the length of the climb. You are trying to sell a different story to me which obviously is untrue.

2012: https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/tour-de-france/2012/stage-7
2014: https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/tour-de-france/2014/stage-10

Dont really know what your agenda is apart from mocking me for trying to me funny. These are the results. Facts, you know. The last ascents of this climbs have obviously not gone the way that you trying to teach me for some reason I dont really know. Blatantly untrue.

Edit: And stupid pictures like this almost make me vomit, especially when they are THIS unwarranted.
Scatterplot?
 
Re: Re:

Valv.Piti said:
Rollthedice said:
There was a statements battle not a GC battle. You can't expect significant gaps on this ridiculous finale. Landa most likely didn't get the memo that there was another murito after the usual finish because nobody in their right mind could think they can go all the way on this type of finish. It killed the excitement of an MTF in favor of a few minutes painful circus.
This was basically Peyragudes v.2. But, but, but, its steep!

Nope, stop it. In hindsight, it was easy to predict how the stage would unfold when you add such an element to an otherwise nice, early and short MTF. It comes down to a waiting game. I thought the general nature of the stage would make it less significant, it didn't, and everyone just waited and basically rendered the rest of the climb pointless in some aspect. In order for this climb to be meaningful, it needs to be raced FULL GAS like Sky did in 2012 and Astana did in 2014. You can make a difference on the first 4 kilometres, then you have the flat part and the gimmicky 20% op to the old finish, but thats of lesser importance.
Good posts Valv. Some of the Tours Froome won had nice MTF actions on last climb at least:
Ax 3, Ventoux, L' Alpe and Semnoz in '13 (all were hard ridden from bottom with proper gaps)
PSM and L' Alpe in '15

This one was just awful, on par with stages like Peyragudes '17 or Pampeago '12 (which still hurts me, it was a monstrous final with Manghen - Passo Pampeago - Lavaze - Alpe di Pampeago, but we had such a sorry bunch of riders that year)

Oh, and forgot to say: Give me Froome winning over Thomas winning by uphill sprints and TTT anyday.
 
Re: Re:

JosephK said:
Koronin said:
JosephK said:
Koronin said:
Lequack said:
That's how Geraint won last year. He always put in these last km sprints and gained seconds here and there, but enough in the end.
When you consider his time trial advantage he has on the other contenders thats all he needs to do. The onus is on them to change that. The annoying part is Ineos could well be too strong again for that to be allowed to happen

Unless Thomas has a crash this has just become his race to lose. IF Pinot can hold it together in the final week he's got one of the other 2 podium spots. IMO it's only the 3rd spot on the podium that is up for grabs and I saw nothing from Quintana to say he has any shot at it today.
I have to agree, for the most part, especially about Thomas having it sewed up (barring a crash). I agree that Pinot should podium if he doesn't have bad luck (crash or illness). Still expecting Bernal to be allowed by Ineos to podium if he wants to. I don't think Quintana or Landa can make top 5. The Giro is in their legs.

Quintana wasn't at the Giro, however, at this point I'm with you that it's unlikely either one makes top 5. I think you're right that Bernal will be allowed to race for the podium as long as it doesn't hurt Thomas' overall GC.
Yes, embarrassing of me. But it feels like he has the Giro in his legs. :eek:[/quote]


Now that is a different story.
 
Re:

Robert5091 said:
Chapeau Teuns and Ciccone - fought to a standstill nearly. Ala better then expected, Bardet can go home now, G sprinting up a 24% gradient - do you laugh or applaud? Team Ineos played it dead right - let the peloton dawdle along lead by 1 QS rider then follow Movistar who should have been at the front much earlier.

Pinot (and George Bennett!) still in the hunt for a podium spot, but we have still to see how it goes up a long climb and not these Vuelta-style finishes.

With the final results the way they were Movistar should never have gone to the front in the first place. They totally wasted the efforts of the team.
 
Re: Re:

Koronin said:
With the final results the way they were Movistar should never have gone to the front in the first place. They totally wasted the efforts of the team.
...and that's pretty much what the GFC DS stated. It was a game of chicken for the contenders' teams and Movistar reacted first. And again, we must question Movistar's intelligence. Three roosters, well maybe two, well we don't know...Landa may have tried to force the decision by making a bone-headed attack from way too far. But he has been there before, losing a podium or more.

Underwhelming stage? Yes. The favorites got spooked by the new finish IMO. We didn't separate the whey from the chaff. Really.

I enjoyed the final though.

Not many lessons learned, but Geraint is back, Pinot is the best French hope, Nibali and Bardet have to rethink their expectations, Porte is OK before Stage 9, TJVG liquefied, Movistar is a chorizo (hot mess), and there's Alaf' a.k.a. Balaphilippe as he was today, a.k.a Jalaphilippe. What a rider! And Teuns: well done dude!

Good day for me.
 
Re: Re:

Tonton said:
Koronin said:
With the final results the way they were Movistar should never have gone to the front in the first place. They totally wasted the efforts of the team.
...and that's pretty much what the GFC DS stated. It was a game of chicken for the contenders' teams and Movistar reacted first. And again, we must question Movistar's intelligence. Three roosters, well maybe two, well we don't know...Landa may have tried to force the decision by making a bone-headed attack from way too far. But he has been there before, losing a podium or more.

Underwhelming stage? Yes. The favorites got spooked by the new finish IMO. We didn't separate the whey from the chaff. Really.

I enjoyed the final though.

Not many lessons learned, but Geraint is back, Pinot is the best French hope, Nibali and Bardet have to rethink their expectations, Porte is OK before Stage 9, TJVG liquefied, Movistar is a chorizo (hot mess), and there's Alaf' a.k.a. Balaphilippe as he was today, a.k.a Jalaphilippe. What a rider! And Teuns: well done dude!

Good day for me.
I fully believe this is going to hurt them badly by the time we get to the 3rd week. They forced their riders to waste a lot of energy for literally nothing at all. That cannot be good for moral inside that team. After the stupidity of today, I could easily see a total meltdown of that team with riders who are returning next year seeing no reason to work for two "leaders" who are leaving at the end of the year and aren't producing results for their efforts. If that happens I could see them not even placing 1 rider in the top 10. NQ actually said all they wanted to do was no lose time. Then why the heck did you put your teammates on the front and force them to waste energy they may need later in the race. It's time for this team to do a complete rebuild.

Yes Alaphilippe did extremely well today. He might even get the yellow back at some point before we get to the real mountains.
 
Politics. Valverde does what he wants, Quintana was heralded as a sure TdF winner but insecure about team loyalty, Landa is just plain wasting his time like he did with Sky. Zero leadership, planning, Movistar is just happy to be a perennial contender, win races in Spain, in their mind relevant.

I can't believe how much under-appreciated Landa is.
 
Tonton said:
Politics. Valverde does what he wants, Quintana was heralded as a sure TdF winner but insecure about team loyalty, Landa is just plain wasting his time like he did with Sky. Zero leadership, planning, Movistar is just happy to be a perennial contender, win races in Spain, in their mind relevant.

I can't believe how much under-appreciated Landa is.
I was hoping to see Valverde give GC a crack with his weight loss.
 
Tonton said:
Politics. Valverde does what he wants, Quintana was heralded as a sure TdF winner but insecure about team loyalty, Landa is just plain wasting his time like he did with Sky. Zero leadership, planning, Movistar is just happy to be a perennial contender, win races in Spain, in their mind relevant.

I can't believe how much under-appreciated Landa is.

Well the only thing Valverde managed to do today was help Pinot, Thomas, and Alaphilippe. Not sure that was exactly his intention. However, interstingly Movistar posted a short video of their riders before the stage started. Most were hanging out at the team bus. Valverde was sitting at a table talking with 4-5 riders from other teams. Video too short to figure out for sure who he was actually talking to. However, from team kits, there was 1 rider from CCC, 1 from DQS, 1 from EF, and 2 from Bora. Sagan was one of them simply because he has the green jersey, so easy to figure out.
 
Tonton said:
It's a mess.

Unless they sort it out real quick, which hasn't happened in years past, it's another wasted Tour for Movistar.

Totally agree. I don't see them sorting anything out anytime soon. I just hope we get a close to total rebuild of this team. If there was a year to do, this is the year to do that. As of right now they have exactly 3 riders under contract for next year.
 
Re:

Moviefan1203 said:
I love G, and am so happy he went well today, but don’t understand why the other teams essentially gave Ineos a free ride.
You cannot win on this forum. If the other teams do not do anything, then there are complaints about there being no attempt to disrupt the train.

If this thread didn't have a title then I would have assumed that Thomas had just gained a minute on most of his rivals on Tourmalet :rolleyes:

There is still plenty to play for.
 

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