2022 Vuelta a Burgos (2/8 - 6/8)

[BR2]

I mean, I guess the riders where informed before that there would be a bump, but first of all the adrenaline is just high in such a situation and second what do they think the riders will do a few hundred meters before the finish of a bunch sprint - slow down to 30km because they know there's a bump coming?

 

[Eeslliw]

They didn't even had the proper road sign for the steward to show

This is all on organisers. Do you see a laying policeman from that screenshot above? I don't. Now imagine going 60 km/h plus riding in 3rd position. No way you see it.

 

[BR2]

I think it's pretty clear: the bump was not allowed to be there (should have walked away, lol, no, you know what I mean) and in addition the barriers were the cheap ones with the feet again, flying around wildly.

 

[railxmig]

I was thinking of writing it in the Pologne thread but i guess this might be a better place. Welcome to the world of "road management". It's designed to slow down vehicle speeds or even force people out of their cars to walk or cycle. I am a lazy car driver but i understand it. The most car dependent a place is the worse living experience is. In the future you will have such speed bumps, road islands, roundabouts or other such road features literally everywhere. For some here with a much weaker heart and nerves this may conclude in there being absolutely no place to host a professional cycling race outside of the highest mountains or car-infested Americas. Cycling races and especially bunch sprints needs roads with no obstructions but local governments want as many of such obstructions as possible to control the traffic for better car safety, pedestrian safety, walkability and generally better liveability.

Within next weeks Vuelta starts in the Netherlands. This country is absolutely horrendous when it comes to hosting professional bike races (famous one-lane wide motorways) but it's also possibly the best in the world when it comes to traffic control and recreational biking/walking. Thanks to it there's a much smaller congestion on the roads so the country doesn't need any Katy Freeway disasters to move it's people from home to a destination (work/school/shop). It's crucial for economy because people have easier/faster access to their workspace. But... it's a disaster for bike races because they need the least such obstructions as possible.

If this trend continues and for higher economic growth it should continue i believe professional cycling races may be reduced to finishes outside of host cities which already starts to show with more and more finishes on their very outskirts, because that's where you have the most parking space (most large commerce & sport/industrial facilities are outside of city centers) and (for now) the least obstructed roads. An alternative is to move more and more towards uphill finishes which seems to be more and more common.

I looked at the map of Villadiego. The main problem i see is that it's in a valley and all connecting roads are downhill. There was a possibility of moving the finish line up to 700m away but i believe there still would be a huge crash in that particular place. There could be a possibility of reaching the town the other way around (CL-633 from Arenillas de Villadiego) which would result in a wide, straight and non-obstruct finishing straight but it would be quite visibly downhill. I don't now what i would do if i was the race director but i guess i would move the finish to that small commercial hub NE of the center and hope that shaky roundabout section won't cause a crash. I think i will still argue it was not as horrendous of a finish as last year's Pontivy or potentially this years Arenberg were but that's just a surface level estimation.

Was there a better option for yesterday's Sanok finish? Yes. That loop in the city was unnecessary as you could reach the finishing climb directly from the east. Was there a better option for today's finish in Rzeszów? Looking at the map i would argue that... nope. You could try to move the finish to the east side of the river on Tadeusza Rejtana street as it's a fast two-lane straight w/o any obstructions and place the finish facilities on one of the crossings like it had been often done in either the Netherlands or even Nowy Sącz. The slope seems to be table-surface straight or possibly slightly uphill in N direction so you could approach it from south to north.

I'm stopping here... my head hurts...

 

[Elos Anjos]

Vuelta organizers are going to sue Vuelta a Burgos organizers for halving the GC contenders.

 

[Filippo_3467]

What are you guys blaming today's crash on? Did you see it?

Vuelta organizers are going to sue Vuelta a Burgos organizers for halving the GC contenders.

Don't think any of the GC riders (Hindley, landa, Sivakov) were hurt in the crash...at least it seems like that from the pictures.

 

[BR2]

I was thinking of writing it in the Pologne thread but i guess this might be a better place. Welcome to the world of "road management". It's designed to slow down vehicle speeds or even force people out of their cars to walk or cycle. I am a lazy car driver but i understand it. The most car dependent a place is the worse living experience is. In the future you will have such speed bumps, road islands, roundabouts or other such road features literally everywhere. For some here with a much weaker heart and nerves this may conclude in there being absolutely no place to host a professional cycling race outside of the highest mountains or car-infested Americas. Cycling races and especially bunch sprints needs roads with no obstructions but local governments want as many of such obstructions as possible to control the traffic for better car safety, pedestrian safety, walkability and generally better liveability.

Within next weeks Vuelta starts in the Netherlands. This country is absolutely horrendous when it comes to hosting professional bike races (famous one-lane wide motorways) but it's also possibly the best in the world when it comes to traffic control and recreational biking/walking. Thanks to it there's a much smaller congestion on the roads so the country doesn't need any Katy Freeway disasters to move it's people from home to a destination (work/school/shop). It's crucial for economy because people have easier/faster access to their workspace. But... it's a disaster for bike races because they need the least such obstructions as possible.

If this trend continues and for higher economic growth it should continue i believe professional cycling races may be reduced to finishes outside of host cities which already starts to show with more and more finishes on their very outskirts, because that's where you have the most parking space (most large commerce & sport/industrial facilities are outside of city centers) and (for now) the least obstructed roads. An alternative is to move more and more towards uphill finishes which seems to be more and more common.

I looked at the map of Villadiego. The main problem i see is that it's in a valley and all connecting roads are downhill. There was a possibility of moving the finish line up to 700m away but i believe there still would be a huge crash in that particular place. There could be a possibility of reaching the town the other way around (CL-633 from Arenillas de Villadiego) which would result in a wide, straight and non-obstruct finishing straight but it would be quite visibly downhill. I don't now what i would do if i was the race director but i guess i would move the finish to that small commercial hub NE of the center and hope that shaky roundabout section won't cause a crash. I think i will still argue it was not as horrendous of a finish as last year's Pontivy or potentially this years Arenberg were but that's just a surface level estimation.

Was there a better option for yesterday's Sanok finish? Yes. That loop in the city was unnecessary as you could reach the finishing climb directly from the east. Was there a better option for today's finish in Rzeszów? Looking at the map i would argue that... nope. You could try to move the finish to the east side of the river on Tadeusza Rejtana street as it's a fast two-lane straight w/o any obstructions and place the finish facilities on one of the crossings like it had been often done in either the Netherlands or even Nowy Sącz. The slope seems to be table-surface straight or possibly slightly uphill in N direction so you could approach it from south to north.

I'm stopping here... my head hurts...

Nonsense.
You think there is no better finish place? I only watched the last 20km or so, but they were riding on flat, wide roads then. (Also, I know Spain a bit, and my, there are enough flat wide, endless roads...) Only when the finish neared the roads were getting dangerous, because they were getting close to the city center. So, is the solution to let the races finish outside the city centers if inside or closer there is no straight wide road anymore? Yes. Simply, yes.
If the cities then aren't willing to pay anymore and the race cannot be held, fine, then it cannot be held. If cycling can only be financed when the health of the riders is willfully ignored, then it has no future. I suspect, though, there are solutions, but people are too lazy or greedy to find them.

 

[railxmig]

Nonsense.
You think there is no better finish place? I only watched the last 20km or so, but they were riding on flat, wide roads then. (Also, I know Spain a bit, and my, there are enough flat wide, endless roads...) Only when the finish neared the roads were getting dangerous, because they were getting close to the city center. So, is the solution to let the races finish outside the city centers if inside or closer there is no straight wide road anymore? Yes. Simply, yes.
If the cities then aren't willing to pay anymore and the race cannot be held, fine, then it cannot be held. If cycling can only be financed when the health of the riders is willfully ignored, then it has no future. I suspect, though, there are solutions, but people are too lazy or greedy to find them.

My English and general reading comprehension are not perfect (or it's written in broken English) so i need a bit more explanation. You are agreeing or disagreeing with me? The last 20k were mostly in nomansland so no town mayor in the world would pay for a finish in the middle of nowhere. In Villadiego specifically i wrote that i would move the finish roughly 700m away from its actual place. I also wrote that soon enough the places outside city centers will also be most likely infested with such traffic regulators. And for any race to exist you need host cities to pay for a finish and i believe such cities would prefer to have a finish incide city's boundaries even if it's at its very outskirts. Sorry, i just don't understand this comment.

 

[BR2]

My English and general reading comprehension are not perfect (or it's written in broken English) so i need a bit more explanation. You are agreeing or disagreeing with me? The last 20k were mostly in nomansland so no town mayor in the world would pay for a finish in the middle of nowhere. In Villadiego specifically i wrote that i would move the finish roughly 700m away from its actual place. I also wrote that soon enough the places outside city centers will also be most likely infested with such traffic regulators. And for any race to exist you need host cities to pay for a finish and i believe such cities would prefer to have a finish incide city's boundaries even if it's at its very outskirts. Sorry, i just don't understand this comment.

Maybe I misunderstood your post then. Your last paragraph especially made me think you were arguing there is no other option to finish races nowadays and hence it was okay to let it finish like this.
I am arguing you have to let them do full bunch sprints (which belong into cycling races) on wide roads without obstacles - and I believe it is possible. If it is really absolutely impossible to find a financially working solution then the race cannot be held.

 

[railxmig]

Maybe I misunderstood your post then. Your last paragraph especially made me think you were arguing there is no other option to finish races nowadays and hence it was okay to let it finish like this.
I am arguing you have to let them do full bunch sprints (which belong into cycling races) on wide roads without obstacles - and I believe it is possible. If it is really absolutely impossible to find a financially working solution then the race cannot be held.

That's okay. My last paragraph was only about the Rzeszów finish, which at its current location didn't had any better options so i moved it to a different place. My next to last paragraph was about the Burgos finish. However, i do believe that in the future it will become a larger and larger problem.

 

[greyclouds]

I was thinking of writing it in the Pologne thread but i guess this might be a better place. Welcome to the world of "road management". It's designed to slow down vehicle speeds or even force people out of their cars to walk or cycle. I am a lazy car driver but i understand it. The most car dependent a place is the worse living experience is. In the future you will have such speed bumps, road islands, roundabouts or other such road features literally everywhere. For some here with a much weaker heart and nerves this may conclude in there being absolutely no place to host a professional cycling race outside of the highest mountains or car-infested Americas. Cycling races and especially bunch sprints needs roads with no obstructions but local governments want as many of such obstructions as possible to control the traffic for better car safety, pedestrian safety, walkability and generally better liveability.

Within next weeks Vuelta starts in the Netherlands. This country is absolutely horrendous when it comes to hosting professional bike races (famous one-lane wide motorways) but it's also possibly the best in the world when it comes to traffic control and recreational biking/walking. Thanks to it there's a much smaller congestion on the roads so the country doesn't need any Katy Freeway disasters to move it's people from home to a destination (work/school/shop). It's crucial for economy because people have easier/faster access to their workspace. But... it's a disaster for bike races because they need the least such obstructions as possible.

If this trend continues and for higher economic growth it should continue i believe professional cycling races may be reduced to finishes outside of host cities which already starts to show with more and more finishes on their very outskirts, because that's where you have the most parking space (most large commerce & sport/industrial facilities are outside of city centers) and (for now) the least obstructed roads. An alternative is to move more and more towards uphill finishes which seems to be more and more common.

I looked at the map of Villadiego. The main problem i see is that it's in a valley and all connecting roads are downhill. There was a possibility of moving the finish line up to 700m away but i believe there still would be a huge crash in that particular place. There could be a possibility of reaching the town the other way around (CL-633 from Arenillas de Villadiego) which would result in a wide, straight and non-obstruct finishing straight but it would be quite visibly downhill. I don't now what i would do if i was the race director but i guess i would move the finish to that small commercial hub NE of the center and hope that shaky roundabout section won't cause a crash. I think i will still argue it was not as horrendous of a finish as last year's Pontivy or potentially this years Arenberg were but that's just a surface level estimation.

Was there a better option for yesterday's Sanok finish? Yes. That loop in the city was unnecessary as you could reach the finishing climb directly from the east. Was there a better option for today's finish in Rzeszów? Looking at the map i would argue that... nope. You could try to move the finish to the east side of the river on Tadeusza Rejtana street as it's a fast two-lane straight w/o any obstructions and place the finish facilities on one of the crossings like it had been often done in either the Netherlands or even Nowy Sącz. The slope seems to be table-surface straight or possibly slightly uphill in N direction so you could approach it from south to north.

I'm stopping here... my head hurts...

We all know here about road management, there's no need for a lecture on it. If the finish line in a certain town can only exist with a bump in a part downhill road, so close to the sprint line, then perhaps the finish can't be in said town. Rider safety needs to be considered and better solutions need to be found. I'm not necessarily blaming the organisers, I'm sure they tried their best to organise this little Vuelta, but I hope they learn from what can only be called a gross mistake.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

One may ask oneself who selects such a finish? And also who approves it? The * faction from Aigle formulates a page-long catalog, where every fart is sanctioned, but approves a ski jump hill in a downhill?

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1554883838714716160

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/edoardo_affini/status/1554883838714716160

Stop shouting the BS about celebrating, your job is to keep your eyes in front on you when doing a high speed leadout.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Van Wilder usually isn't the luckiest guy on the planet. Crashes, covid, stomach flu, broken jaw... His season has been riddled with tough luck. Previous seasons didn't go much better.

Today again it didn't seem to go his way, with a puncture in the final 7k. But the slime in his tube made it possible to continue for 4k until he was safe to change tires due to the 3k rule. Considering he usually finishes in the first part of the bunch, it is safe to say he might have been saved from disaster today.

 

[SHAD0W93]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1554883838714716160

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/edoardo_affini/status/1554883838714716160

Stop shouting the BS about celebrating, your job is to keep your eyes in front on you when doing a high speed leadout.

But like others have said, you can hear a crash that loud on top of no more sound of other riders around you.

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

But like others have said, you can hear a crash that loud on top of no more sound of other riders around you.

You don’t know, you wouldn’t look back at that speed. Stop giving riders crap for situations that they aren’t aware of.

 

[tobydawq]

You don’t know, you wouldn’t look back at that speed. Stop giving riders crap for situations that they aren’t aware of.

Of course he was aware!

 

[SHAD0W93]

You don’t know, you wouldn’t look back at that speed. Stop giving riders crap for situations that they aren’t aware of.

Except they did look behind. I’m not sure if the rider that looked is Roosen or Affini but one of them looked back. They were aware of a crash, just not that it was that big.

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

Of course he was aware!

Aware that no one was around them, not aware of the extent of the crash. Why are we supposed to discredit riders opinions when they wouldn’t be lying.

 

[tobydawq]

Van Wilder usually isn't the luckiest guy on the planet. Crashes, covid, stomach flu, broken jaw... His season has been riddled with tough luck. Previous seasons didn't go much better.

Today again it didn't seem to go his way, with a puncture in the final 7k. But the slime in his tube made it possible to continue for 4k until he was safe to change tires due to the 3k rule. Considering he usually finishes in the first part of the bunch, it is safe to say he might have been saved from disaster today.

He should not get the same time, then.

I remember once when Alaphilippe was on the attack in Itzulia and clearly punctured 3.5 kms before the line, yet managed to not be caught before the 3 kms to go banner after which he changed his tyre, he was not given the same time as the peloton because the incident occurred too early.

 

[JosefK]

Are we sure Roglic wasn't in there somewhere on this stage?

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1554883838714716160

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/edoardo_affini/status/1554883838714716160

Stop shouting the BS about celebrating, your job is to keep your eyes in front on you when doing a high speed leadout.

I see Jumbo employee Benji Naessen diplomatically retweeted the second tweet:
"2. I feel very sorry and sad for everyone involved and i hope no one is badly hurted. Dear
@UCI_cycling
after all that happend already, to allow a finish with a speedbump so high in the last 800m coming from a super hig speed section is a disgrace. Unacceptable."

 

[Gratemans]

Are we sure Roglic wasn't in there somewhere on this stage?

I don't know, but if he was, get ready for some blistering attacks tomorrow!

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He should not get the same time, then.

I remember once when Alaphilippe was on the attack in Itzulia and clearly punctured 3.5 kms before the line, yet managed to not be caught before the 3 kms to go banner after which he changed his tyre, he was not given the same time as the peloton because the incident occurred too early.

lol.

The slime in the tube is there for a reason, and it enables you to ride further until it is no longer possible. With a silly argument like yours, you could also say that when a rider's handlebar, or his frame or his saddle, breaks off in the final 3k, that the cause of the incident will definitely have manifested sooner and therefore should not count.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Very difficult to reconcile this image:

with these words:
"I really didnt have idea of the huge carnage behind us"
Did Affini really think he had simply ridden the rest of the peloton off his wheel when he saw the gap we see him looking at there?