Giro d'Italia 2023 Giro d'Italia, Stage 2: Teramo – San Salvo 201 km (Sunday, May 7th)

[QueenStagiaire]

what a bummer for Hart to loose that much time after such a great ITT

I‘m sure his mood has dropped from miserable to even more miserable.

 

[Bonimenier]

Groves already got that Alpecin mentality.

 

[staubsauger]

I‘m sure his mood has dropped from miserable to even more miserable.

If he goes from grumpy to livid, Tao hopefully turns into some sort of red hulk in the mountains!

 

[Izzyeviel]

why did they narrow the road?

 

[Tricycle Rider]

Ciccone mate

I had to do some very challenging math this morning ( ), providing it's correct Ciccone was about 9 months younger than Cipo would have been at the time. So Ciccone it is.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

There's the breakthrough we spent all spring waiting for!

Yeah, exactly what I thought when I read Milan won…

 

[Lequack]

Move over Roglic and Fred Wright. We have a new GC guy vs sprinter battle.

Evenepoel blames Groves for Giro d'Italia crash, Alpecin defend Australian sprinter
Kaden Groves ‘did not feel he did anything wrong’ say team after stage 2 pileup disrupted finish

Evenepoel blames Groves for Giro d'Italia crash, Alpecin defend Australian sprinter

Kaden Groves ‘did not feel he did anything wrong’ say team after stage 2 pileup disrupted finish

www.cyclingnews.com

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

Groves already got that Alpecin mentality.

Crashing others intentionally? I wouldn’t consider that any teams mentality, let alone Alpecin’s.

 

[Salvarani]

Groves does not deserve to be accused like that.

There were many things happening, things to consider, that lead to this crash. He is not solely to blame.

I think it would have been wiser not to comment on it immediately after the race or at least taken some time to look at some pictures before making a statement like that against another rider. He is pretty fast to point the finger and yell at other riders. It is not a very good trait imo.

 

[tobydawq]

what a bummer for Hart to loose that much time after such a great ITT

It's 19 seconds...

 

[Volderke]

So to resume about the crash:
The Alpecin rider (Groves) pushes Ballerini. He pushed Ballerini to make space, and given the distance from the finish, that push was probably more to keep himself safe from being boxed in by Ballerini on the right, and the barriers on his left. Those barriers were not very safe with their legs sticking out approx. half a meter. Still, a push is not something you should do unless it is for the safery of both of the riders, and if there is no alternative (I reckon braking was possible but would obviously lose him positions).
Ballerini going left creates a wave of riders going left, and while most riders avoid crashing as there still was some space to move, the DSM rider (Tusveld)? was too slow to react and crashed. Tusveld looked back just before the wave came his way, so he didn't have time to react.

So who is to blame?
Groves maybe in the first place, but there maybe is a good reason why he pushed (to avoid crashing himself in the barriers).
The race director is responsible for safe barriers, and those are not up to standard (post Tour de Pologne / Jakobsen).
Tusveld has to look ahead instead of looking behind. While he wasn't responsible for the swerving, there was still some space to avoid crashing if he looked ahead.

All of the above is only meant to illustrate how quick we are to judge, and that reality is, in many cases, not black / white.

First, Ackermann was thought to be the responsable for swerving, next it was Tusveld's fault for not being able to avoid the swerving while looking back, and last it was Groves who, at this moment, is seen as a dirty rider that tried to create danger for no reason.
Now, before we crucify Groves on the altar of internet forum scrutiny, it would be prudent to let him say something about what happened.

 

[Netserk]

Now, before we crucify Groves on the altar of internet forum scrutiny, it would be prudent to let him say something about what happened.

Yes, but apparently he didn't want to comment on what happened, only on his feelings.

 

[Red Rick]

Just casual shoving people in sprint prep. Looks like a super clear case to me.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

It's 19 seconds...

Maybe now he will be allowed to go in a break!

 

[CyclistAbi]

Congratulations to Jonathan Milan for winning the sprint.

It was just a matter of time for Milan. Nice to see on how emotional he was after the finish. As suspected, such stages tend to shuffle GC standings. A lot of GC guys caught behind the crash today. It could have easily been both Rogla and Remco today. This is never good.

On who is it to blame. Interestingly, just before the crash, commentators discussed, on how different ideas are circulating. On how to further improve safety, beyond the 3km rule. Conclusion was rather standard. You need to prove you are worthy of the GC. By not crashing out. Proving you are a good bike handler ...

That is all fine and dandy BUT if both Rogla and Remco would be take out today. What that would prove is on just how stupid the system currently is.

So on who is to blame. It was just a matter of time today. It's a lottery. There is no real science behind it. At some point the crash will occur and that will be that.

 

[Lequack]

Groves does not deserve to be accused like that.

There were many things happening, things to consider, that lead to this crash. He is not solely to blame.

I think it would have been wiser not to comment on it immediately after the race or at least taken some time to look at some pictures before making a statement like that against another rider. He is pretty fast to point the finger and yell at other riders. It is not a very good trait imo.

 

[rghysens]

Well, we have significant damage in the GC for many top 10 aspirants after a relatively short ITT and a sprint stage. For comparison, this was the result after 2 days last year (1 sprint + 1 ITT):

10th 18s
20th 28s
50th 38s

But the itt this year is about twice as long as last year...

 

[Salvarani]

False prophet.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

False prophet.

Football banter

 

[Salvarani]

Football banter

YNWA

 

[Oldermanish]

So to resume about the crash:
The Alpecin rider (Groves) pushes Ballerini. He pushed Ballerini to make space, and given the distance from the finish, that push was probably more to keep himself safe from being boxed in by Ballerini on the right, and the barriers on his left. Those barriers were not very safe with their legs sticking out approx. half a meter. Still, a push is not something you should do unless it is for the safery of both of the riders, and if there is no alternative (I reckon braking was possible but would obviously lose him positions).
Ballerini going left creates a wave of riders going left, and while most riders avoid crashing as there still was some space to move, the DSM rider (Tusveld)? was too slow to react and crashed. Tusveld looked back just before the wave came his way, so he didn't have time to react.

So who is to blame?
Groves maybe in the first place, but there maybe is a good reason why he pushed (to avoid crashing himself in the barriers).
The race director is responsible for safe barriers, and those are not up to standard (post Tour de Pologne / Jakobsen).
Tusveld has to look ahead instead of looking behind. While he wasn't responsible for the swerving, there was still some space to avoid crashing if he looked ahead.

All of the above is only meant to illustrate how quick we are to judge, and that reality is, in many cases, not black / white.

First, Ackermann was thought to be the responsable for swerving, next it was Tusveld's fault for not being able to avoid the swerving while looking back, and last it was Groves who, at this moment, is seen as a dirty rider that tried to create danger for no reason.
Now, before we crucify Groves on the altar of internet forum scrutiny, it would be prudent to let him say something about what happened.

All of the speculation about cause of crash is not relevant to a disqualification. As a rider who took his hands off the bars who had the lead position; he would face relegation at least or expulsion based on the consequences of the action. Ballerini was holding his line. If the road narrows it's the obligation of the following rider to adjust; not the lead rider who lacks eyes in the back of his head.

Groves was not intentionally trying to do anything but improve his sprint outcome because he fears facing his DS for failure more than he fears relegation. His team is also backing him up so he fared OK on that team stature issue. If neither he or Ballerini weren't in final sprint placings they may have a "conversation" about it but usually that wouldn't escalate beyond posturing and no officials would be invovled. Groves also couldn't have known the outcome of pushing Ballerini which is why relegation and expulsion is always a possibility. You can't take your hands off the bars because erratic sh*t happens. It is a rule. Head butts can also fit into that scenario.
It is a black and white infraction. The outcome and official rulings become the shades of gray.
Ask Sagan how he feels: he was following the wheel in front of him and being directed toward the barriers. He extended an elbow to protect himself when a following rider was trying to fit into a diminishing space that wouldn't support both of them without contact that would have crashed them both. The follower did not yield even though it would rely on Sagan moving into the rider on his left. This was not the first time that particular opponent had done something that stupid, either. The World Champion's move was technically legal but the stature of the following sprinter and resulting other crash victims demanded some response. IMO: both should have been relegated.

 

[Cookster15]

As anyone who has ever raced a bike would know after watching the replay, this was a racing incident. Good to see Alpecin defending Groves. But I can understand why Remco would point the finger, his entire Giro, not mention physical health was put at risk by that crash.

Racing for GC you are not interested in sprint stages except that they don't take you out. But racing for GC also requires luck. The most amazing thing about Lance was he didn't have a serious crash in any of those 7 TdF "wins". If we have to apportion any blame, then blame the organizers for selecting roads which narrow in the approach to the finish. But even this isn't the definitive cause as the crash occurred after the road narrowing.

 

[Cookster15]

that push was probably more to keep himself safe from being boxed in by Ballerini on the right, and the barriers on his left. Those barriers were not very safe with their legs sticking out approx. half a meter. Still, a push is not something you should do unless it is for the safery of both of the riders, and if there is no alternative (I reckon braking was possible but would obviously lose him positions).

The forum doesn't care much about sprint stages which are a necessary annoyance. It only really cares about GC - the fight for pink. In the forum's eyes Groves risked destroying three weeks of entertainment wondering if Roglic can beat Remco fair and square. Someone must pay!!

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

So to resume about the crash:
The Alpecin rider (Groves) pushes Ballerini. He pushed Ballerini to make space, and given the distance from the finish, that push was probably more to keep himself safe from being boxed in by Ballerini on the right, and the barriers on his left. Those barriers were not very safe with their legs sticking out approx. half a meter. Still, a push is not something you should do unless it is for the safery of both of the riders, and if there is no alternative (I reckon braking was possible but would obviously lose him positions).
Ballerini going left creates a wave of riders going left, and while most riders avoid crashing as there still was some space to move, the DSM rider (Tusveld)? was too slow to react and crashed. Tusveld looked back just before the wave came his way, so he didn't have time to react.

So who is to blame?
Groves maybe in the first place, but there maybe is a good reason why he pushed (to avoid crashing himself in the barriers).
The race director is responsible for safe barriers, and those are not up to standard (post Tour de Pologne / Jakobsen).
Tusveld has to look ahead instead of looking behind. While he wasn't responsible for the swerving, there was still some space to avoid crashing if he looked ahead.

All of the above is only meant to illustrate how quick we are to judge, and that reality is, in many cases, not black / white.

First, Ackermann was thought to be the responsable for swerving, next it was Tusveld's fault for not being able to avoid the swerving while looking back, and last it was Groves who, at this moment, is seen as a dirty rider that tried to create danger for no reason.
Now, before we crucify Groves on the altar of internet forum scrutiny, it would be prudent to let him say something about what happened.

The problem is that Ballerini's front wheel was to the left of the rider in front of him's back wheel. So when Groves pushed him there was a huge probability of Ballerini crashing, because his front wheel was clipping behind the backwheel of the rider in front of him. It's a miracle Ballerini didn't crash himself, because had he, he would have taken out Evenepoel and Roglic in one swoop.

 

[Pirazziattacks]

Move over Roglic and Fred Wright. We have a new GC guy vs sprinter battle.

Evenepoel blames Groves for Giro d'Italia crash, Alpecin defend Australian sprinter
Kaden Groves ‘did not feel he did anything wrong’ say team after stage 2 pileup disrupted finish

Evenepoel blames Groves for Giro d'Italia crash, Alpecin defend Australian sprinter

Kaden Groves ‘did not feel he did anything wrong’ say team after stage 2 pileup disrupted finish

www.cyclingnews.com

I'm sure this will make Remco even more popular in the peloton. No one's said it, but that counterpoint would be that Quickstep, Jumbo and Ineos are the teams most responsible for making things more dangerous by fighting for position on every flat stage and adding to the congestion. I understand why they do it, but you can't get involved in the fight and then go pointing fingers.