2023 Tour de France route rumors

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I don't know if that is really a good signal. It could end up with only one time trial again.

In the first week only the Tarbes stage could still be a time trial. Not much info on this stage so far.
In the second week most possible options seems gone, maybe the day before the rest day.
In the third week, there are still some stages unknown, so, it could be there as well. But if the Tarbes stage was not a time trial, and without a prologue there will be only 1 time trial again.
1 time trial is enough, if it's a time trial of 50/60 km.
Unfortunately now they don't do long time trials.
I don't like 2 time trials of 50 km like in the old days, but i also don't like 1 or 2 time trials with 25/35 km like they do now. It's like losing a stage. One long time trial of 50/60 km it's the best option.
 
1 time trial is enough, if it's a time trial of 50/60 km.
Unfortunately now they don't do long time trials.
I don't like 2 time trials of 50 km like in the old days, but i also don't like 1 or 2 time trials with 25/35 km like they do now. It's like losing a stage. One long time trial of 50/60 km it's the best option.
The 1996 Giro d'Italia was great. They had one Lengthy Time Trial with two Epic Mountain Days Following. Great Location. It was stage 19 of 22 and 62km Long.
 
1 time trial is enough, if it's a time trial of 50/60 km.
Unfortunately now they don't do long time trials.
I don't like 2 time trials of 50 km like in the old days, but i also don't like 1 or 2 time trials with 25/35 km like they do now. It's like losing a stage. One long time trial of 50/60 km it's the best option.
One of many things the 2015 Giro got right.

Although a 40-50k TT + short TT on day 1 if the grand départ is in a flat area (like this year) is fine too. Or a 35-50k TT and a MTT.
 
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When the Tour returns to its previous patterns it'll mean the field is such that can produce suspense inside the pattern.

Following the trend, it's a noticeable shift from route-defined GCs to GC-defined routes.
...In accordance with the business development.

In return, the sport progresses searching for the areas where the difference can be made.
And there's the spiral that leads to the revival of the former ways upped for the athletes' performances.
 
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Tonight, finally some new rumours were published by some French Newspapers. Velowire's overview has been updated tonight as well:

# date départ arrivée remarques
1 sa. 1er juillet 2023 Bilbao Bilbao 185 km
2 di. 2 juillet 2023 Vitoria-Gasteiz San Sebastian 210 km
3 lu. 3 juillet 2023 Amorebieta-Etxano Bayonne
4 ma. 4 juillet 2023 Dax ? Laruns ?
5 me. 5 juillet 2023 Pau ? Cauterets ?
6 je. 6 juillet 2023 Tarbes ?? ???
7 ve. 7 juillet 2023 Mont-de-Marsan Bordeaux
8 sa. 8 juillet 2023 Libourne Limoges
9 di. 9 juillet 2023 Saint-Leonard-de-Noblat Puy de Dôme
R1 lu. 10 juillet 2023 repos à Clermont-Ferrand
10 ma. 11 juillet 2023 Saint-Ours-les-Roches / Vulcania Issoire
11 me. 12 juillet 2023 Clermont-Ferrand Moulins
12 je. 13 juillet 2023 Roanne Chiroubles ou Belleville-en-Beaujolais
13 ve. 14 juillet 2023 Châtillon-sur-Chalaronne Grand Colombier
14 sa. 15 juillet 2023 Annemasse Morzine L'Etape du Tour ?
15 di. 16 juillet 2023 ??? Courchevel - altiport
R2 lu. 17 juillet 2023 repos
16 ma. 18 juillet 2023 Les Gets Saint-Gervais Mont Blanc
17 me. 19 juillet 2023 ??? ???
18 je. 20 juillet 2023 ??? Bourg-en-Bresse ???
19 ve. 21 juillet 2023 ??? Le Grand Ballon ??
20 sa. 22 juillet 2023 Belfort ou Montbéliard ??? ???
21 di. 23 juillet 2023 Vélodrome National de Saint-Quentin-en-Yvelines Paris Champs-Elysées

It seems that the 2023 Tour will take place only in a limited part of France. Transfers between stages seems to be short as well. Most unlogical about above scheme is that on Saterday 15 they will Finish in Mourzine, The next stage will go to Courchevel. And then for the rest day on Monday and the stage on Tuesday (Les Gets) go back to Morzine. That not really makes sense.

If we look at the possibilities per stage we get something like this:
1 Bilbao - Bilbao hilly / medium mountain
2 Vitoria-Gasteiz - San Sebastian hilly / medium mountain
3 Amorebieta-Etxano - Bayonne sprint (first half of the stage slightly hilly, second part flat)
4 Dax? - Laruns ? sprint? / medium mountain (only marie blanque) / mountain stage -----> not enough info about the stage yet to have a clue
5 Pau? - Cauterets ? mountain (Tourmalet/ Cautaret-Cambasque combo??)
6 Tarbes ?? - ??? mountain/ time trial/ sprint ---> not enough info about the stage yet to have a clue
7 Mont-de-Marsan - Bordeaux sprint (completely flat)
8 Libourne - Limoges sprint / hilly ----> most likely hilly, but sprint in Limoges are always uphill. Coming from the south a hilly final is also possible.
9 Saint-Leonard-de-Noblat - Puy de Dôme medium mountain with HC finish
R1 repos à Clermont-Ferrand
10 Saint-Ours-les-Roches / Vulcania - Issoire hilly / medium mountain
11 Clermont-Ferrand - Moulins sprint (some hills are possible)
12 Roanne - Chiroubles ou Belleville-en-Beaujolais hilly / medium mountain (for example the stage in Paris Nice last year won by Roglic)
13 Châtillon-sur-Chalaronne - Grand Colombier mountain ----> most likely flat first half, unknown which side of the GC they will finish (considering the next days not much to expect before the GC)
14 Annemasse - Morzine mountain ----> climbs not known yet, we can hope for Saleve, Ramaz, Joux-Plaine and Joux-Verte
15 Courchevel - altiport mountain -----> finish only a few k after col de la Loze most likely, most likely not really a good connection with other climbs before
R2 repos
16 Les Gets - Saint-Gervais Mont Blanc mountain / time trial ----> this stage makes not much sense in the scheme. First it's weird Courchevel is in between Morzine and this stage. Are the rumours sure about this order? Furthermore stage and finish are really close to each other. Is a time trial possible or something like a loop Romme/ Colombier/ Aravis/ Bettex? Not really the best corner of the Alps to create a stage with good linking climbs. Another option would be a kind of World Championship circuit, because WC will be held in Haute Savoie in 2027.
17 ??? - ??? sprint (most likely I guess)
18 ??? - Bourg-en-Bresse ??? sprint
19 ??? - Le Grand Ballon ?? mountain
20 Belfort ou Montbéliard ??? - ??? hilly/ mountain/ time trial
21 Vélodrome National de Saint-Quentin-en-Yvelines - Paris Champs-Elysées sprint (or can we have a surprise and will it be a time trial??)


Do you think a sprint for Bourg-en-Bresse? That'll be super disappointing if that's the case. Given the terrain near there I would hope for at the bare minimum a medium mountain stage with a reduced sprint finish. Isn't that supposed to be a Jura stage?
 
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I'm curious to the pacing here. It seems that there could in potential some really difficult stages in a row at the end of week 2 and beginning in week 3.

stage 12 medium moutain around Chiroubles ou Belleville-en-Beaujolais
stage 13 Hard HC finish (Grand Columbier), maybe some climbs before
stage 14 Morzine (could be one of the queen stages)
stage 15/16 Courchevel (Loze) ou Saint-Gervais (bettex??)
stage 15/16 Courchevel (Loze) ou Saint-Gervais (bettex??)

That seem a bit to many hard stages in a row, not? The could do some strange things like with the Megeve stage last year, to make a potential interesting stage, harmless for GC.
Hm, yeah but then the rumous aren't clear about stage 16 yet, right? My dream scenario would be something like:

...
stage 13: Grand Colombier
stage 14: Courchevel
stage 15: Morzine
rest day
stage 16: ITT
...
 
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^ stage 20 could be an ITT according to this article. With stage 19 more or less confirmed as the Bourg-en-Bresse stage. Hmmm.

The article also mentions a possible double ascent of Grand Colombier
 
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Likely HCs

Tourmalet E
Puy de Dome
Grand Colombier
Grand Colombier 2nd ascent (different side?)
Joux-Plane
Loze W

Maybe Grand Ballon as well, if the part about the stage 20 ITT in that article was just an assumption.
Double GC is just about as far as ASO imagination goes doesnt it?

I guess this means ascending one of the west sides first then descending to Anglefort/Culoz then climbing from Culoz/Anglefort?

Doing the SW and NE climbs is a very hard combo but then it would be nerfed by being the first Alpine stage.
 
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new updates on Velowire suggesting the time trial will be on the Sunday after the Morzine stage, however, not completely sure is where the time trial will be (Velowire suggesting somewhere around Morzine / Thônes / Chamonix / Ugine). Chourchevel stage therefore only will be 2 days after the rest day. However, if the start indeed will be from Salanches, it will be a challange to link the Col de la Loze with anything interesting before. The stages between the Alps and Vogezen most likely have one easy one and 1 possible hilly one around Poligny. Dificult to judge if that can be anything with importancy for GC.

See here the stages as shown by Velowire:

1 sa. 1er juillet 2023 Bilbao Bilbao 185 km
2 di. 2 juillet 2023 Vitoria-Gasteiz San Sebastian 210 km
3 lu. 3 juillet 2023 Amorebieta-Etxano Bayonne
4 ma. 4 juillet 2023 Dax ? Laruns ?
5 me. 5 juillet 2023 Pau ? Cauterets ?
6 je. 6 juillet 2023 Tarbes ?? ???
7 ve. 7 juillet 2023 Mont-de-Marsan Bordeaux
8 sa. 8 juillet 2023 Libourne Limoges
9 di. 9 juillet 2023 Saint-Leonard-de-Noblat Puy de Dôme
R1 lu. 10 juillet 2023 repos à Clermont-Ferrand
10 ma. 11 juillet 2023 Saint-Ours-les-Roches / Vulcania Issoire
11 me. 12 juillet 2023 Clermont-Ferrand Moulins
12 je. 13 juillet 2023 Roanne Chiroubles ou Belleville-en-Beaujolais
13 ve. 14 juillet 2023 Châtillon-sur-Chalaronne Grand Colombier
14 sa. 15 juillet 2023 Annemasse Morzine L'Etape du Tour ?
15 di. 16 juillet 2023 ??? ??? CLM individuel
R2 lu. 17 juillet 2023 repos à Sallanches
16 ma. 18 juillet 2023 Les Gets Saint-Gervais Mont Blanc
17 me. 19 juillet 2023 Sallanches Courchevel - altiport
18 je. 20 juillet 2023 Moûtiers - Salins-les-Thermes - Brides-les-Bains Bourg-en-Bresse
ou Villars-les-Dombes / Parc des Oiseaux ???
19 ve. 21 juillet 2023 Villars-les-Dombes / Parc des Oiseaux
ou Jura ?????? Poligny
20 sa. 22 juillet 2023 Belfort ou Montbéliard ??? Le Grand Ballon ou Markstein ???
21 di. 23 juillet 2023 Vélodrome National de Saint-Quentin-en-Yvelines Paris Champs-Elysées
 
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Honestly, I hope that isn't the route. It looks remarkably uninspiring in the third week. Of course all that depends on the route. For example, on the above hypothetical route, Stage 18 could be a tough breakaway/ classics GC guys attack stage, same with stage 21.
 
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new updates on Velowire suggesting the time trial will be on the Sunday after the Morzine stage, however, not completely sure is where the time trial will be (Velowire suggesting somewhere around Morzine / Thônes / Chamonix / Ugine). Chourchevel stage therefore only will be 2 days after the rest day. However, if the start indeed will be from Salanches, it will be a challange to link the Col de la Loze with anything interesting before. The stages between the Alps and Vogezen most likely have one easy one and 1 possible hilly one around Poligny. Dificult to judge if that can be anything with importancy for GC.

See here the stages as shown by Velowire:

1 sa. 1er juillet 2023 Bilbao Bilbao 185 km
2 di. 2 juillet 2023 Vitoria-Gasteiz San Sebastian 210 km
3 lu. 3 juillet 2023 Amorebieta-Etxano Bayonne
4 ma. 4 juillet 2023 Dax ? Laruns ?
5 me. 5 juillet 2023 Pau ? Cauterets ?
6 je. 6 juillet 2023 Tarbes ?? ???
7 ve. 7 juillet 2023 Mont-de-Marsan Bordeaux
8 sa. 8 juillet 2023 Libourne Limoges
9 di. 9 juillet 2023 Saint-Leonard-de-Noblat Puy de Dôme
R1 lu. 10 juillet 2023 repos à Clermont-Ferrand
10 ma. 11 juillet 2023 Saint-Ours-les-Roches / Vulcania Issoire
11 me. 12 juillet 2023 Clermont-Ferrand Moulins
12 je. 13 juillet 2023 Roanne Chiroubles ou Belleville-en-Beaujolais
13 ve. 14 juillet 2023 Châtillon-sur-Chalaronne Grand Colombier
14 sa. 15 juillet 2023 Annemasse Morzine L'Etape du Tour ?
15 di. 16 juillet 2023 ??? ??? CLM individuel
R2 lu. 17 juillet 2023 repos à Sallanches
16 ma. 18 juillet 2023 Les Gets Saint-Gervais Mont Blanc
17 me. 19 juillet 2023 Sallanches Courchevel - altiport
18 je. 20 juillet 2023 Moûtiers - Salins-les-Thermes - Brides-les-Bains Bourg-en-Bresse
ou Villars-les-Dombes / Parc des Oiseaux ???
19 ve. 21 juillet 2023 Villars-les-Dombes / Parc des Oiseaux
ou Jura ?????? Poligny
20 sa. 22 juillet 2023 Belfort ou Montbéliard ??? Le Grand Ballon ou Markstein ???
21 di. 23 juillet 2023 Vélodrome National de Saint-Quentin-en-Yvelines Paris Champs-Elysées
I think that time trial on sunday after morzine will be a mountain time trial, and the flat time trial will be on stage 6 in tarbes.
 
Honestly, I hope that isn't the route. It looks remarkably uninspiring in the third week. Of course all that depends on the route. For example, on the above hypothetical route, Stage 18 could be a tough breakaway/ classics GC guys attack stage, same with stage 21.
This route inspires last ditch attacking in the third week. There should be opportunities, honestly one of the better projected routes over the years.
 
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This route inspires last ditch attacking in the third week. There should be opportunities, honestly one of the better projected routes over the years.

It's a route, as we know it which entirely depends on the route taken in each individual stage. 18 and 19 could both be sprint stages. I don't think a 3rd week outside the Alps or Pyrenees which include 2 sprint stages in two of the last three stages before Paris is terribly exciting. With that, if those two stages end up being medium mountain or even hill stages, then we're talking something different and the route has the potential to be relentless and exciting from start to finish. We just need to know more before I say one way or the other. In general, it's certainly seems experimental which I enjoy.
 
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One thing I am curious about is stage 17. Most people, including everyone here has it finishing at Courchevel while others have it finishing it in Annecy with a finish in Courchevel the day before. What's the difference between the two scenarios? Which one is more likely?
 
Is that 5 days in the Alps?

Anyway, MTT is one of those magical things I don't have a strong hate or weird love for.


what makes the MTT not really a favorite of mine, is that it normally really shows who is the strongest. Theoratically, in a flat time trial, the specialst can win some decent time compared to the climbers. But in a MTT normally the strongest rider in GC, is the dominant rider in the MTT as well. Is that wrong? of course not. However, in tours with dominant riders, it only extent his lead, while the competition can't really do something tactically to surpise the dominant rider.