Vuelta a España 2023 Vuelta a España route rumours

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I hope the organizer won't worry about things such as WC. Worry about the Vuelta. For example in 2022 season. The final week was made for amateur cycling. On top of that Evenepoel hinted he won't defend the title.

P.S. Roglič worked hard to elevate this GT in the past few years. And in my opinion he was successful at it. Competition helping him in that regard. So please continue in this direction.
 
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I hope the organizer won't worry about things such as WC. Worry about the Vuelta. For example in 2022 season. The final week was made for amateur cycling. On top of that Evenepoel hinted he won't defend the title.

P.S. Roglič worked hard to elevate this GT in the past few years. And in my opinion he was successful at it. Competition helping him in that regard. So please continue in this direction.
Giro winners to attempt to defend the title in the last 15 years:

Tom Dumoulin, 2018
Vincenzo Nibali, 2017
Ryder Hesjedal, 2013
Michele Scarponi, 2012
Ivan Basso, 2011
Danilo di Luca, 2008

That's a 40% hit rate.

Before Roglič, the Vuelta winners to attempt to defend the title:

Juan José Cobo, 2012
Vincenzo Nibali, 2011
Roberto Heras, 2005
Roberto Heras, 2004
Aitor González, 2003

Again, that's going back a while. Horner wanted to defend but was held out due to a cortisol result that saw him held out on MPCC rules. Valverde in 2010 might have come back had he not been suspended, Heras in 2006 likewise, and I don't know about Vino in 2007.

As you can see, actually it's less common to defend the 'lesser' GTs than it is to do so. Why? Quite often people who win these as their first GT - as many who chose not to defend were - will then target the Tour, the biggest race, the following season. The Vuelta can get riders to return if their Tour bids go awry of course, as happened with Rogla, but apart from Cobo we're going back quite some way before we had a Vuelta defending champion who had made it their season target - and of course he was then uncompetitive and isn't the winner of the race he originally won anymore either.

I think your bias clouds your judgement if you think Roglič has worked hard to elevate the Vuelta. If he has elevated the Vuelta it's been an unintended consequence of his racing it. Like with a lot of people, it's a saving throw for a season awry or where there is unfinished business. In 2019 and 2020, Rogla had already fallen short in prior targets before the Vuelta, and winning it was a chance for him to make good on those disappointments. It wasn't like he targeted it season-long like Valverde and Samu in 2009 (Valverde largely because his Italian ban prevented him entering the Tour that year). The Vuelta has been through a few growth phases in the last 40 years to bring it from being "the other three week race in Europe" to the race it is today, but it's still definitely the runt of the GT litter.
 
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Good spot, Netserk, I was remembering seeing pictures of him at a TT with Scarponi in pink, but that will of course have been at the start of 2012 because Scarponi never got to wear pink in 2011. Mea culpa. So it's actually even fewer.
In 2017 Froome looked as strong/slightly stronger in Vuelta than Tour imo. He pretty much planned that season with the aim of Tour-Vuelta double. Since his rise he always rated Vuelta and liked it a lot imo.
Oh, Froome definitely really liked the Vuelta - but of course although he did enter it in 2012 he didn't do so as defending champion at the time - and after that he had unfinished business with the race, hence coming back until he eventually won it in 2017, coming close in both 2014 and 2016. However, in all of those seasons the Tour was the primary goal, at least for the team, and the Vuelta was a secondary goal. 2014 was a bit of a similar factor to Roglič, rescuing the season after crashing out of the Tour, but the same applied to Contador of course. I think a combination of the fact that Froome tended to be at his best when it was very hot, dealing with the heat better than most other contenders, and that it had been his breakthrough and he felt an affinity for it from that (and that he lost in 2011 after the team clipped his wings when he knew he had the legs to win and indeed only lost on bonus seconds) endeared the race to him and so he would go after it as long as he had the legs post-Tour.

By contrast, Contador won the race three times, but there's extenuating circumstances around all three and it was never his main target despite being Spanish - in 2008 it was Astana being barred from entry to the Tour, in 2012 it was coming off of his ban, and in 2014 it was crashing out of the Tour. This is frequently a feature in the fields at the Vuelta, or has been in recent memory. In 2006, Liberty Seguros-Würth (and its successor, Astana-Würth) were barred from the Tour due to Operación Puerto, leading Vino and Kash to target the Vuelta. In 2008, the new Astana (merged with Discovery Channel) were barred from the Tour and initially the Giro too, leading Contador and Leipheimer to target the Vuelta. In 2009, Valverde couldn't race in Italy and the Tour route passed through Italy; after ASO vetoed Valverde's participation with an enforced withdrawal before they got to Italy, he targeted the Vuelta as the only possible GT of the year for him. In 2011, Geox were not invited to the Tour. In 2012, Contador had been banned when the Tour started so couldn't contest it, while Valverde's Tour had been a mess salvaged with a late stage win. Horner missed several months injured in 2013 and missed the Tour as a result, while Contador and Froome both crashed out of the Tour early in 2014.

After that, you do have more of an era of legitimately targeting and achieving at multiple GTs, with Quintana going 3-1 in 2016 and Froome going 1-2 in 2016 and 1-1 in 2017. Yates' Giro GC doesn't look quite so impressive in 2018 but obviously he led most of the way and capitulated a couple of days from the end before winning the Vuelta (and Nibali in 2017 went 3rd in the Giro and 2nd in the Vuelta too), then Roglič goes 3rd in the Giro before winning the Vuelta in 2019. 2020 is kind of an anomaly with the compressed season, but Rogla does of course go 2-1 but the Vuelta did feel like a consolation prize for him after botching the Tour finale, while in 2021 the Vuelta was definitely the same after crashing out of the Tour.

As a result, you'd say that rather than being the one to elevate the status of the Vuelta, Roglič has arrived on the back of a few years' run where big guns were legitimately targeting two GTs a year and with great success, and it's the Froomes and Quintanas taking on the Vuelta in earnest even after success in other GTs that this elevation should be attributed to, with Rogla and Yates then following in their stead, with the Giro-Vuelta double being a bit more manageable than holding form for back to back GTs - although Tour-Vuelta is invariably the more common back to back to attempt, usually because of a less nervous péloton, lower average speeds and often a less deep GC field seeing as, you know, the Tour is the Tour and will always see the toughest competition for the top spots because it's the one everybody wants and all the sponsors demand their best riders at - it takes a rare situation like Joaquím Rodríguez in 2012 for one of the absolute top GC contenders to wilfully forgo the Tour entirely out of personal choice.
 
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it takes a rare situation like Joaquím Rodríguez in 2012 for one of the absolute top GC contenders to wilfully forgo the Tour entirely out of personal choice.
Nibali also raced Giro-Vuelta in 2013 ( 1st and 2nd ) and 2017 ( 3rd and 2nd ). Quintana in 2014 too ( 1st and DNF after crashes whilst being contender ). Rodriguez wanted to do it in 2014 as well but his Giro was ruined by crashes so went to Tour to gain form for Vuelta ( 4th ).
Nibali actually didn't seem to like the Tour much. Only targeted Tour GC once after 2015, in 2018 ( where he got taken out by motos ). 2016 he rode it to gain form for Olympics, 2019 he was forced to ride by his team. Also rode in 2021 but not for GC.
 
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@Libertine Seguros

There are 3 GTs and Tour is considered to be above the other two. As for Giro and Vuelta. I don't feel it's bias if i say in Rogličes era Vuelta got elevated above Giro. Such opinion was frequently expressed here on the forum too. By different people. A certain standard was set by Roglič and his arch rivals. Hence the idea to just throw all that away. To focus on kids and align Vuelta to other "more important" races. I don't know about that. Rather stupid thing to do in my opinion.

As for Roglič and his Vuelta attempts. I don't feel he perceived it like that. I feel that he took it seriously. For example not succeeding in securing a record four in a row. I feel that that was quite a blow for him.

As for Evenepoel. As this is cycling who knows. Maybe he will end up defending the title in 2023.

We'll see.
 
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@Libertine Seguros

There are 3 GTs and Tour is considered to be above the other two. As for Giro and Vuelta. I don't feel it's bias if i say in Rogličes era Vuelta got elevated above Giro. Such opinion was frequently expressed here on the forum too. By different people. A certain standard was set by Roglič and his arch rivals. Hence the idea to just throw all that away. To focus on kids and align Vuelta to other "more important" races. I don't know about that. Rather stupid thing to do in my opinion.

As for Roglič and his Vuelta attempts. I don't feel he perceived it like that. I feel that he took it seriously. For example not succeeding in securing a record four in a row. I feel that that was quite a blow for him.

As for Evenepoel. As this is cycling who knows. Maybe he will end up defending the title in 2023.

We'll see.
I think attributing the increase in status of the Vuelta to Roglič is very short-sighted when he immediately follows a period where you had Quintana and Froome duking out the GC after contesting the Tour, his first Vuelta win was following the same plan as Yates the year before, and while 2022 may have been taken very seriously with Vingegaard having usurped his spot as Tour leader and the chance to write his name into history with a record fourth consecutive Vuelta, 2021 was very much a case of the Vuelta as a chance to 'make good' after crashing out of the Tour - same as Contador and Froome in 2014. I'm sure he would have taken it seriously had he completed the Tour and done well in the GC. But he'd have likely not been as strong had he raced the Tour to the finish for GC, and it would have been raced very differently as a consequence.

Carlos Sastre raced Tour-Vuelta for GC - pretty effectively - every year for most of the 2000s. Valverde did it in 2008, and then almost every year from 2012 until his retirement, only omitting 2016 when he tried to do all three and worked for Quintana in Spain, and 2017 when he crashed out of the Tour and couldn't start the Vuelta. Froome did both in 2012 and from 2015 to his eventual winning of the Vuelta on the road in 2017. Purito did the same in 2010 and 2013-15 (though his GC bids in France failed in 2014 and 2015). Quintana did both for GC in 2015, 2016, 2018 and 2019. These are all guys who have contributed to the elevation of the status of the Vuelta while also doing the Tour for GC, and they are far from the first either, so I think crediting Rogla with the elevation of the Vuelta's status is revisionist history borne out of your affection for the Slovene. Enric Mas has been doing both for GC as long as Primož Roglič.

With every year that passes, the time when the Vuelta was the distant relation moves further into the past and represents a smaller amount of the percentage of its history, and with every year that passes, the memory of its weaker times becomes more distant. The development of the skiing industry introducing tougher mountains, the end of Franco and Spain's opening up to the world, Unipublic taking over and moving the finish to Madrid, the 1983 classic edition, Bernard Hinault, the introduction of classic climbs and the race developing its own icons like Covadonga, the move to September, the boom in Spanish cycling catalysed by the success of Indurain and running until Puerto, and the establishment of a USP in the development of the race's niche for garage ramps and sharp ascents in recent years that have become part of the unique identity of the Vuelta and a point of differentiation from the other GTs... all of these have been the bigger factors in the increase in prestige attached to the race.
 
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The article says there are bids from the local councils of Riosa and Lena for a stage finish at Angliru and Cuitu Negru respectively. Oh..., BTW, there are also other interesting climbs in Asturias, such as La Marta.

The headline statement that Unipublic is considering all three is clickbait, not in line with the article text.
 
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Cantabria proposes a stage finish at Bejes.

Space is tight up there, so it has to pass Unipublic's exam. If Gamoniteiro passed it, I can't see this failing unless it is because it would come just before/after two logistically challenging finishes in Asturias.

The climb looks somewhat like Peña Cabarga, a bit shorter and easier, but it connects with the mighty Collado de la Hoz with no flat in between.

The grey part is a goat track (nominally, Salto de la Cabra = Goat's Jump), paved with concrete in poor condition.




 
Doubt it. The Worlds aren't interesting for the climbers so you'd think at least one of Pogacar, Vingegaard and Roglic shows up. And Evenepoel could also easily combine it with the Giro, and smoked Mas on Les Praeres last year...
Pogacar is trying to win MSR and Ronde. He can win Worlds.
Roglic might do Giro and Tour, if he does he will not do Tour.
Vingegaard could very well perform below his standard, it would be his first Tour-Vuelta double.
Didn’t someone from Quick Step just say Remco will not do the Vuelta?
 
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Dec 1, 2022
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2
15
Guillen said that there will be 7 MTF finishes. The website seems like it has really good info. They broke the Ayuso going to the vuelta way before anyone.

Andorra : Arcalis-Arinsal or Grandvalira

Castellon: Mas de la Costa (more or less the same as Praeres) or Vistabella del Maestrat

Valencia: Miserat. 7,6 km at 8,5%.

Murcia: Collado Bermejo. Hard climb.

France : Tourmalet

Navarra: Belagua by Larrau (+ another stage the next day finishing in Lekunberri climbing Aralar twice.

2 stages in Asturias : Angliru and Cuitu Negru or Lagos.

ITT will be 33 km after the 2nd rest day and Guillen said that before the Asturian stages, he would like a classic like stage (I assume Cantabria)

This will be quite hard, I think.


https://www.high-cycling.com/que-se-sabe-de-la-vuelta-a-espana-2023/
 
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Updates from local news sites:

Stage 5 in the province of Castellon may finish at Burriana. That's a flat finish that will be preceded by rolling terrain on the inner side of the province of Castellón.
Stage on 1st of September will go from Utiel to Oliva, riding through the city of Valencia, so this is most likely a flat run in for a bunch sprint. This would be stage 7.
These two flat finishes in stages 5 and 7 make curious about stage 6.
In addition to these, there will be a MTF at Laguna Negra de Urbión, the place where Dan Martin won in 2020.

Guillén confirms to AS the regions that will be in the race. The inclusion of Murcia and the omission of Castilla-La Mancha more or less confirms stage 8 will be in Alicante, with the ruomoured MTF at Miserat; stage 9 will be at Murcia; and the first rest day transfer may take the race to Castilla y León for the MTF at Laguna Negra before going to Aragón, France and Navarra for the mountain stages that close the second week.
The final week is still full of questions. The rumour of the ITT at Valladolid is very likely but not yet confirmed; Angliru looks confirmed, Covadonga is not sure; the finish at Cantabria is still to be confirmed and the order of these final mountain stages is unknown. To add more noise there's the rumour that stage 20 will be a sawtooth hilly one following the pattern of stage 20 of the Vuelta '21.




 
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So, 8 MTFs as per the same AS article:
  • Andorra
  • Miserat
  • Urbion
  • Tourmalet
  • Larra-Belagua
  • Bejes?
  • Angliru
  • Covadonga?
That means that stage 6 would likely not be an MTF. Very easy transition from Andorra to Alicante, it would seem.

I am also starting to wonder whether the Valladolid TT could be on stage 10 after all, it fits better with the other rumours for weeks 2 and 3.

Tentative route:
Stage 1: Barcelona - Barcelona (14k TTT)
Stage 2: Province of Barcelona - Barcelona (Montjuïc)
Stage 3: Province of Barcelona - Andorra (MTF in Vallnord area, via Comella and Beixalis?)
Stage 4: Andorra - Tarragona
Stage 5: ?? - Burriana?
Stage 6: ?? - ??
Stage 7: Utiel - Oliva
Stage 8: ?? - Miserat
Stage 9: ?? - Somewhere in Murcia
Rest day 1
Stage 10: ?? - ??
Stage 11: ?? - Laguna Negra de Urbion
Stage 12: ?? - Somewhere in Aragón
Stage 13: Jaca/Sabiñanigo/Biescas? - Tourmalet
Stage 14: Somewhere in France - Larra-Belagua (via Hourcère and Larrau)
Stage 15: Pamplona - Lekunberri (via San Miguel de Aralar (2x?))
Rest day 2
Stage 16: Valladolid (ITT)
Stage 17: ?? - Bejes?
Stage 18: ?? - ??
Stage 19: La Bañeza - Angliru
Stage 20: Somewhere in Asturias - Lagos de Covadonga?*
Stage 21: Madrid parade

*There's a lot of discussion in the Spanish forums on a possible finish in Tineo but there are no articles on it and I don't see where it fits except instead of Covadonga, as otherwise you get three mountain stages - rest day - TT - four mountain stages with nothing in between, that seems excessive.

The order for the final week is still unclear, but anything else would require more than two stages in Asturias which contradicts existing rumours that said there would only be two Asturian stages, or La Bañeza on a different day which again contradicts existing rumours.
 
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Lerma is likely to host a stage start, could be either the one into Cantabria or, more probably, the one to Laguna Negra de Urbion. However, the town also isn't too far away from Valladolid, so the TT being on stage 10 hypothesis looks a little more plausible now...
That makes sense for a second week including ITT, Laguna Negra, a flat stage into Aragón and the three mountain stages for the week end.
 
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First two stages have been officially presented today. They're kinda meh

By the looks of the fake 3D profile, stage two will include a climb to Montjuich, a descent and an uphill finish at the Olympic Stadium. They'll get to Barcelona riding down the Llobregat valley skipping all other climbs surounding the city. I'm not sure Purito likes this.

 
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