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2024 European Championships in Heusden-Zolder/Hasselt (September 11-15) Discussion Thread For All Races

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Samamba

Samamba

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Red Rick said:
The truth hurts.
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The way you still can't see the difference between Roglic and most drafting cases blows my mind. You could say that rules are rules or something and context doesn't matter, which is a fine argument but the whole double standards stuff is just BS and you know it cause it simply isn't the same.

And yes even I was thinking that Merlier was bit much, but comparing them remains stupid.
 
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AmRacer

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Mayomaniac said:
Yeah, but he was blocked and frankly Consonni blew it, he isn't a great leadout man and the big guys have an easy time manhandling a 60kg guy like him when things get messy.

It's easy to push him away when you're 20kg heavier.

I rewatched it and Rickaert did nothing wrong, it's Consonni who isn't that good in this position. Use him before Trentin (maybe after him, but better before him) and have Ballerini be the leadout man
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Trentin did lots of work chasing breakaways.
 
Samamba

Samamba

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Red Rick said:
I think it's fairly ridiculous to call upon the rules 1% of the time, cite cOnTeXt the other 99% of the time and then claim there's no double standards.

If there should be a rule, it should be applied consistently, not arbitrarily by virtue of amount of outrage created. I don't think that should debatable, but apparently it is.
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More like context 1% of the time and 99% of the time it's like "everyone does it". Like I said an argument like rules are rules is fine but you also don't say it every time someone is drafting cause 50 riders a race would be DSQ. Everyone knows everyone does it after bad luck, and if you make that into a rule everyone will abuse it. Most of the time the jury even gives the green light to cars and rider to do it a bit (at least early in the race).

You can't claim double standards when 2 cases aren't same, it's not that hard to understand. You known damn well there's a difference between actually having a flat/crash or changing bikes to get an advantage later on. And yes, I agree. It is not in the rules, so scream rules are rules as much as you can but it has nothing to do with double standards. Wheter the outrage made the jury punish Roglic I don't know (it happened pretty fast), but the outrage was there cause of the context, you can meme about it, that's the reason, not because Roglic drafter after having bad luck.

Anyways, it's pretty obvious we don't agree, we don't have to, but if you're going to scream double standards every time you see someone drafting in a race and he doesn't get punished, it's gonna get annoying very quickly.
 
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Brullnux

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Samamba said:
More like context 1% of the time and 99% of the time it's like "everyone does it". Like I said an argument like rules are rules is fine but you also don't say it every time someone is drafting cause 50 riders a race would be DSQ. Everyone knows everyone does it after bad luck, and if you make that into a rule everyone will abuse it. Most of the time the jury even gives the green light to cars and rider to do it a bit (at least early in the race).

You can't claim double standards when 2 cases aren't same, it's not that hard to understand. You known damn well there's a difference between actually having a flat/crash or changing bikes to get an advantage later on. And yes, I agree. It is not in the rules, so scream rules are rules as much as you can but it has nothing to do with double standards. Wheter the outrage made the jury punish Roglic I don't know (it happened pretty fast), but the outrage was there cause of the context, you can meme about it, that's the reason, not because Roglic drafter after having bad luck.

Anyways, it's pretty obvious we don't agree, we don't have to, but if you're going to scream double standards every time you see someone drafting in a race and he doesn't get punished, it's gonna get annoying very quickly.
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Yeah, Roglic/Bora designed a tactic to give them an advantage on the climb and looked to cover the tactic's downside by drafting behind a car for a really long time. They knew they were pushing what could be considered permissible, and it's not something I think I had ever seen before. I think it was an interesting decision and it had been a bit less obvious it may have worked, but you're completely right that giving leeway post crash/mechanical (which just neutralises the 'bad luck' of the mechanical or crash slightly) is very different to what Bora did.
 
Didinho

Didinho

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ChewbaccaDefense said:
Even in is interview Philipsen is a f**king loser. Only talked about not having legs, nothing about his teammate winning, nothing about the Belgians wasting all of their leadout on him, and him still not being able to win. Team should have been 100% for Merlier.
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Don’t know which interview you heard but immediately after the finish he congratulated Merlier multiple times and saying he was the fastest and deserving winner. Even when the reporter asked 3-4 questions about it to stir it up.
 
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shadowrider

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I think we got the confirmation Merlier is the fastest sprinter this season. Of course he has been beaten in sprints won by Milan, Kooij and Philipsen. But mostly because he was boxed in before or during the sprint. Every sprinter gets boxed in now and then. But sprinters as Milan, Philipsen, sometimes Kooij start their sprint by jumping from the wheel of the last lead-out at the front of the peloton. With the advantage of not getting boxed in, but also starting the sprint with a lead. Merlier starts his sprint almost every time from behind. With a risk to get boxed-in and with the disadvantage to (have to) make more meters than the sprinters in front. But..... staying longer out of the wind, coming out the slipstream with a higher speed, is often the ideal formula (for Merlier) to win.
Another proof of Merliers' superiority (today) was the fact that his chain dropped at less then 350 m of the finish. He had to freewheeling a few seconds trying to get his chain on the ring. But being far enough in the pack, he didn't lose much speed. At the end it was even an advantage, coming late out of the bunch and the slipstream...
 
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