Sestriere was the 20th.nick101 said:
I didn't say it wasn't decisive, I said it wasn't meant to.
This year which was the "pivotal stage?" Treviso?
edit: anyway we're OT. Let's stop this
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I didn't say it wasn't decisive, I said it wasn't meant to.
This year which was the "pivotal stage?" Treviso?
edit: anyway we're OT. Let's stop this
Treviso was pivotal for mark Cavendish . gc not so much. the key mentality behind a mtf is to create drama, so acquarone would've expected something to happen, just maybe not to the degree it did that day.
agreed...........
. gc not so much. the key mentality behind a mtf is to create drama, so acquarone would've expected something to happen, just maybe not to the degree it did that day. agreed...........
hint: Treviso was the stage when Wiggo lost definitely, so GC wise was pretty important. And btw Acquarone wasn't in charge in 2011.nick101 said:Treviso was pivotal for mark Cavendish
agreed...........
To come back in topic, Linkinito there was no hint for today climb?
The "trilogy" was the hint.Eshnar said:hint: Treviso was the stage when Wiggo lost definitely, so GC wise was pretty important. And btw Acquarone wasn't in charge in 2011.
To come back in topic, Linkinito there was no hint for today climb?
zomegan was director then? oh right, I remember now. the fact that the route was so difficult was the reason why he got kicked out. most riders were trying to survive and not actually racing.
for wiggins maybe but it wouldn't have been if he didn't crash. it was more confirmation that wiggins wasn't gna win rather than being the deciding factor. for other gc riders not so much.
for wiggins maybe but it wouldn't have been if he didn't crash. it was more confirmation that wiggins wasn't gna win rather than being the deciding factor. for other gc riders not so much.
Linkinito said:The "trilogy" was the hint.
duh
@nick: Gardeccia got the best racing of the year.
please explain?? I can see that it was about survival on that stage and it was fascinating watching nibali chasing back and whether he would keep up. Turned a bit primal or something like that??
I can see that it was about survival on that stage and it was fascinating watching nibali chasing back and whether he would keep up. Turned a bit primal or something like that??
@nick101 I think you don't understand, or trying hard not to understand that when you create a race you can only assume what stage will be most important. You think Zomegnan knew in October that it's going to rain in Holland in May. Ok, highly possible, but far from wanting that to be a decisive stage. Same with Austria. You think in Armstrong era they wished for Sestrieres, Hautacam, Alpe, Tourmalet, Tourmalet again and Courchevel to end the race and then just having some useless 4-5 mountain stages?
well no, obviously not. but after a few years of armstrong the tdf director probably realised what you said.
the gardeccia stage was meant to be pivotal, but by the time the riders reached that stage, they were all exhausted and just trying to survive like I already said. Zomegan was ignorant of the difficulty of the previous stages in the race and how they would affect the riders
the gardeccia stage was meant to be pivotal, but by the time the riders reached that stage, they were all exhausted and just trying to survive like I already said. Zomegan was ignorant of the difficulty of the previous stages in the race and how they would affect the riders
in the stage to gardeccia we actually had more attacks, and from further, than in all the rest of the year combined. If anything I'd say the previous stages affected them in the right way.nick101 said:
But seriously, this thread is not about that. If you wants to discuss further open a new thread.
Either way, whether Großglockner had more GC effect than the infinitely superior from an entertainment point of view stage to Gardeccia (a stage which will be talked about for years even though the 2011 Giro was MTF overkill and not really much of a GC battle), the Großglockner is, what, 100km out of Italy?
The Tour might put a big mountain stage finishing at Verbier, or on or around one of the Italian climbs that are close to France (one of the GTs seriously needs to use Aosta better). Let's say San Carlo, Pila, Crans-Montana, Sestrières, Cervinia, Prato Nevoso, and if we got really, really lucky, some kind of stage involving Sampeyre and Esischie/Fauniera, are plausible, but climbs at the opposite end of the countries, let's say, Albulapass, Mortirolo, Malbun (I know, Liechtenstein) or Stelvio are not. Same at the other end for Spanish climbs; Pla de Beret, Port-Ainé, Vallter2000, Rasos de Peguera or Estación de Esquí Boi-Taüll are plausible if varying in their likelihoods; Anglirú, Fonte da Cova, Calar Alto or Collado de las Sabinas are not.
The Tour might put a big mountain stage finishing at Verbier, or on or around one of the Italian climbs that are close to France (one of the GTs seriously needs to use Aosta better). Let's say San Carlo, Pila, Crans-Montana, Sestrières, Cervinia, Prato Nevoso, and if we got really, really lucky, some kind of stage involving Sampeyre and Esischie/Fauniera, are plausible, but climbs at the opposite end of the countries, let's say, Albulapass, Mortirolo, Malbun (I know, Liechtenstein) or Stelvio are not. Same at the other end for Spanish climbs; Pla de Beret, Port-Ainé, Vallter2000, Rasos de Peguera or Estación de Esquí Boi-Taüll are plausible if varying in their likelihoods; Anglirú, Fonte da Cova, Calar Alto or Collado de las Sabinas are not.
#12: Col de Turini (Alpes-Maritimes)
The French Stelvio
This road is simply unique in France, and the mythical Monte Carlo Rally isn't wrong by taking this road each year. Each hairpin turn is stunning, and taking them at an incredible speed is simply outstanding. Add to this the "night of the long knives", when the Turini stage is driven at night, and you obtain one of the most difficult and spectacular races in the world. The pass can start in several different places, and each one offers its number of hairpin turns and its stunning backdrop. And even the famous british show Top Gear took a ride on the pass in search of the greatest driving road in the world. A contest that the Stelvio won, before having its title stripped by the Transfăgărășan road two years later.
It's easy to compare the Turini with the Stelvio, as both offer incredible sceneries and a lot of hairpins turn. But they have a huge difference: except from the altitude (the Turini tops at 1607 m, the Stelvio at 2758 m!), one became a legend in the italian cycling world, while the other was simply forgotten, letting the drivers and engines roar through its roads every year. That's right: the Tour de France only took the Turini roads three times. In 1948, 1950 and 1973. Ignored since four decades, it still offers a great challenge for all the cycling riders that want to climb it.
We'll look at the west side of the climb (starting below La Bollène-Vésubie), which is the hardest one.
Top: 1607 m
Length: 15.3 km
Ascent: 1107 m
Average gradient: 7.2 %
Climbbybike Difficulty score: 116
From this side, the climb is very regular, the flat parts being really rare. The pass maybe a little bit short to be really categorized as HC, but the gradient nearly always stays the same. But what the profile doesn't show is that each hairpin turn, depending of the way you're entering it in, could make the climb a little bit longer but easier as they bring some flat parts for some meters, giving time for rest. Oscillating between 6.5 and 9 %, the long straight lines and little curves are mixed with the tight hairpins, which definitely bring the challenge in alongside the scenery.
We must also notice that it's possible to extend the climb to the Baisse de Tueis (aka l'Authion). It adds up from 4 to 6 km of climb (depending of the ending point), at 7.2 % average topping at 2045 meters high. And as there's a road that goes in a 9 km loop at the top, it would be technically feasible to do an MTF at l'Authion. However, being located in the heart of the National Park of the Mercantour, and having a stage finish here is unlikely because of environmental reasons. The same that led the Tour to move the finish line of a stage from the Pont d'Espagne to Cauterets in 1995.
If the west side of the climb is the hardest, the other sides also offer difficulty, but in lesser proportions (but are still solid 1st Category climbs). And even in descent, to go towards Nice and Menton, they offer an awesome road down during several kilometers, where the experience is definitely unique. The pictures below offer a sneak peek of what riders can expect by going up or down these roads. The Col de Turini is one of the driving heavens: will it become another heaven for cycling? That's up to the organizers.
And sorry for being so late today, I had to do a ton of things today, and only started writing this one hour ago.
The French Stelvio
This road is simply unique in France, and the mythical Monte Carlo Rally isn't wrong by taking this road each year. Each hairpin turn is stunning, and taking them at an incredible speed is simply outstanding. Add to this the "night of the long knives", when the Turini stage is driven at night, and you obtain one of the most difficult and spectacular races in the world. The pass can start in several different places, and each one offers its number of hairpin turns and its stunning backdrop. And even the famous british show Top Gear took a ride on the pass in search of the greatest driving road in the world. A contest that the Stelvio won, before having its title stripped by the Transfăgărășan road two years later.
It's easy to compare the Turini with the Stelvio, as both offer incredible sceneries and a lot of hairpins turn. But they have a huge difference: except from the altitude (the Turini tops at 1607 m, the Stelvio at 2758 m!), one became a legend in the italian cycling world, while the other was simply forgotten, letting the drivers and engines roar through its roads every year. That's right: the Tour de France only took the Turini roads three times. In 1948, 1950 and 1973. Ignored since four decades, it still offers a great challenge for all the cycling riders that want to climb it.
We'll look at the west side of the climb (starting below La Bollène-Vésubie), which is the hardest one.
Top: 1607 m
Length: 15.3 km
Ascent: 1107 m
Average gradient: 7.2 %
Climbbybike Difficulty score: 116
From this side, the climb is very regular, the flat parts being really rare. The pass maybe a little bit short to be really categorized as HC, but the gradient nearly always stays the same. But what the profile doesn't show is that each hairpin turn, depending of the way you're entering it in, could make the climb a little bit longer but easier as they bring some flat parts for some meters, giving time for rest. Oscillating between 6.5 and 9 %, the long straight lines and little curves are mixed with the tight hairpins, which definitely bring the challenge in alongside the scenery.
We must also notice that it's possible to extend the climb to the Baisse de Tueis (aka l'Authion). It adds up from 4 to 6 km of climb (depending of the ending point), at 7.2 % average topping at 2045 meters high. And as there's a road that goes in a 9 km loop at the top, it would be technically feasible to do an MTF at l'Authion. However, being located in the heart of the National Park of the Mercantour, and having a stage finish here is unlikely because of environmental reasons. The same that led the Tour to move the finish line of a stage from the Pont d'Espagne to Cauterets in 1995.
If the west side of the climb is the hardest, the other sides also offer difficulty, but in lesser proportions (but are still solid 1st Category climbs). And even in descent, to go towards Nice and Menton, they offer an awesome road down during several kilometers, where the experience is definitely unique. The pictures below offer a sneak peek of what riders can expect by going up or down these roads. The Col de Turini is one of the driving heavens: will it become another heaven for cycling? That's up to the organizers.
And sorry for being so late today, I had to do a ton of things today, and only started writing this one hour ago.
i know very well both the turini and the couillole.
both nice climbs.
the couillole js simpler than the turini , but it can be enchained to many grand cols in the area, especially the cajole, that it is avery interesting col if properly used by the tour.
a stage in the mercantour region, with so many options could be like the gardeccia stage, if properly designed.
turini is definitely a grand col , because from every side you start the ascent very low.
ii like particularly the side from l'escarene peyra cava with beautiful hairpins, but i reckon that from bolene la vesubie it is harder.
the side from sospel is beautiful, with pines akn trees and a very constant %.
it is similar to certain dolomites climbs like falzarego, but turini is harder.
it can be enchained with lots of climbs in the region and it is definitely worth a detour by a all the people cycling in the french riviera in the nice montecarlo region.
i can imagine dozen of very hard tour stages including the turini, but it will be difficult that ASO uses this climb.
both nice climbs.
the couillole js simpler than the turini , but it can be enchained to many grand cols in the area, especially the cajole, that it is avery interesting col if properly used by the tour.
a stage in the mercantour region, with so many options could be like the gardeccia stage, if properly designed.
turini is definitely a grand col , because from every side you start the ascent very low.
ii like particularly the side from l'escarene peyra cava with beautiful hairpins, but i reckon that from bolene la vesubie it is harder.
the side from sospel is beautiful, with pines akn trees and a very constant %.
it is similar to certain dolomites climbs like falzarego, but turini is harder.
it can be enchained with lots of climbs in the region and it is definitely worth a detour by a all the people cycling in the french riviera in the nice montecarlo region.
i can imagine dozen of very hard tour stages including the turini, but it will be difficult that ASO uses this climb.
The problem is this region pretty much needs big cities in the mountains. There's Sospel (pop. 3500) and Contes (pop. 7000) for a Turini final climb. Valberg could also host a MTF, along with Isola 2000. Otherwise, there's still the "Pescheux-style-with-50-km-of-descent-finish" with Nice and Menton. As a matter of fact, Le Grand-Bornand only has 2200 inhabitants. But most of the times, small cities host starts, not finishes.profff said:
If we're mentioning Isola 2000, then I guess we ought to mention Barcelonnette, and the accompanying ski stations (Super-Sauze and Pra-Loup), as after all it's at one end of Allos and Cayolle. What about Turini->Sospel->Brouil->Breil-sur-Roya, or Turini->Sospel->Braus->Contes? Menton wouldn't be bad either after Turini->Braus->Madone di Gorbio.
Libertine Seguros said:
if you have some fantasy you can have a lot of beautiful finish using praloup with these climbs ( imagine couillole, cayolle, praloup MTF, or the same barcelonette at the end of cyolle downhill)
the turini can be used al penultimate climb , than you can climb to peille ( about 3,5 km at 6/7%) and down to nice, or turini, down to sodpel, up the castillon down to menton, or turini , castillon down to menton up col the la madone down to montecarlo or menton, or turini down to l' escarene , up to peille and finish in menton via col de la mad one/ gorbio, or finish in montecarlo
there is really plenty of chances , you just need fantasy and probably money from the host town.
#13: Col de l'Arpettaz (Savoie)
The hidden loop
This isn't a departmental road. It's not even indicated on the road signs. It doesn't even have an "official black pass sign" with its altitude. The Col de l'Arpettaz is quite unknown for many cycling fans, as no cycling race dared to go on its roads. So not many stories happened on this road that goes over the city of Ugine, in a loop that tops at 1581 meters of altitude. It's situated only a few kilometers to the col de l'Épine, which will be climbed this year by the Tour de France, and not far from the Signal de Bisanne, presented here a week ago.
The Col de l'Arpettaz is mostly a start for trekkings up to the Mont Charvin, and the mountains around the much-more known col des Aravis. But it also gives a hard, regular climb for all cycling enthusiasts. The road might not be in perfect condition and might be a little bit narrow, but it's still a good climb for Tour de France standards and would also be rated HC thanks to its difficulty. Being over 16 km long, it's a climb that is definitely harder than its neighbor, the col des Aravis.
The west side, starting from Ugine, is the hardest of them all.
Top: 1581 m
Length: 16.3 km
Ascent: 1161 m
Average gradient: 7.1 %
Climbbybike Difficulty score: 119
The climb is rather easy until the small village of Mont-Dessus, where the road noses up to reach gradients that get closer to the two-digit percentage. To get it simply, it never goes down under 7 % for more than 11 kilometers. As it elevates, the scenery becomes more and more wild, and don't expect to find some bars or stores up the summit: it's just a chalet that awaits up there. If the climb stays hard for a long time, the amateurs that know that hidden climb particularly enjoy it, as there's not many cars that go to the summit: it's not like behemoths like Tourmalet or Galibier where riders have to compose with all the traffic going up and down.
As this climb is still "in the dark", it might take time before it gets noticed by ASO and other cycling races. Also being quite wild in its environment, there might be some people who wouldn't like that climb to get known and become a highway traffic-fest. But I think the Tour should visit it at least once to discover another gem that has been hidden from the maillot jaune for more than a hundred years. The col de l'Arpettaz is the kind of climb you don't expect to find if you stay on the large, main roads: going out of them makes us discover some spectacular difficulties.
The hidden loop
This isn't a departmental road. It's not even indicated on the road signs. It doesn't even have an "official black pass sign" with its altitude. The Col de l'Arpettaz is quite unknown for many cycling fans, as no cycling race dared to go on its roads. So not many stories happened on this road that goes over the city of Ugine, in a loop that tops at 1581 meters of altitude. It's situated only a few kilometers to the col de l'Épine, which will be climbed this year by the Tour de France, and not far from the Signal de Bisanne, presented here a week ago.
The Col de l'Arpettaz is mostly a start for trekkings up to the Mont Charvin, and the mountains around the much-more known col des Aravis. But it also gives a hard, regular climb for all cycling enthusiasts. The road might not be in perfect condition and might be a little bit narrow, but it's still a good climb for Tour de France standards and would also be rated HC thanks to its difficulty. Being over 16 km long, it's a climb that is definitely harder than its neighbor, the col des Aravis.
The west side, starting from Ugine, is the hardest of them all.
Top: 1581 m
Length: 16.3 km
Ascent: 1161 m
Average gradient: 7.1 %
Climbbybike Difficulty score: 119
The climb is rather easy until the small village of Mont-Dessus, where the road noses up to reach gradients that get closer to the two-digit percentage. To get it simply, it never goes down under 7 % for more than 11 kilometers. As it elevates, the scenery becomes more and more wild, and don't expect to find some bars or stores up the summit: it's just a chalet that awaits up there. If the climb stays hard for a long time, the amateurs that know that hidden climb particularly enjoy it, as there's not many cars that go to the summit: it's not like behemoths like Tourmalet or Galibier where riders have to compose with all the traffic going up and down.
As this climb is still "in the dark", it might take time before it gets noticed by ASO and other cycling races. Also being quite wild in its environment, there might be some people who wouldn't like that climb to get known and become a highway traffic-fest. But I think the Tour should visit it at least once to discover another gem that has been hidden from the maillot jaune for more than a hundred years. The col de l'Arpettaz is the kind of climb you don't expect to find if you stay on the large, main roads: going out of them makes us discover some spectacular difficulties.
Maybe next time we get Le Grand Bornand we can have Glandon - Madeleine - Cyclotouristes - Signal De Bisanne - Arpettaz - Aravis
Or maybe not
Or maybe not
I can't really contribute to this thread considering my lack of knowledge in this area but congratulations for your great work!
Linkinito said:What? A hint? You didn't get one for several days?
Okay, here's the hint.
Could you be thinking about the Col des Champs?
http://www.climbbybike.com/climb.asp?qryMountainID=6503
associating the Eiffel tower with the nearby Champs Elysées?
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