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52nd Amstel Gold Race - April 16 - 261km

Page 6 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Re: Re:

Netserk said:
Brullnux said:
Matthews has apparently taken note of the criticism and says he wants to be as aggressive as GvA. Blames Orica for holding him back. Unfair attack on his previous employer or accurate?
Well, he could have let his legs do the talking three days ago. So far, it's just talk, no walk.
That was my first thought too, but he seems to claim that it's a mindset he has gotten into because of Orica's previous instructions. He says that he has 'learnt' to stay in the wheels, but I didn't realise that was something that could be learnt, I thought it was just something you did.
 
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Re: Re:

Brullnux said:
That was my first thought too, but he seems to claim that it's a mindset he has gotten into because of Orica's previous instructions. He says that he has 'learnt' to stay in the wheels, but I didn't realise that was something that could be learnt, I thought it was just something you did.


poor Matthews still suffering from Orica tactics even when on the other team, he will never be aggressive like that.
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Re: Re:

El Pistolero said:
jaylew said:
El Pistolero said:
StryderHells said:
El Pistolero said:
Honestly, besides Movistar, not a single team should want an uphill sprint on Mur de Huy. But as this is only a prep race no one's going to bother doing something about it. Does anyone care about FW? I don't think so, besides Valverde. Otherwise they'd try to win it.

The amount of people that rate this race high and think it should stay the same way just because they're Valverde fans is astonishing.
I think you're getting confused with your desire to say anything to belittle the achievements of riders you don't like and to do the opposite for the ones you do.

I like Gilbert and he won FW, so your argument makes little sense. It's simply a boring race. The strongest always wins, that's boring. I like cycling because it's so unpredictable and many scenarios are possible. You don't only need to be strong, but smart and even lucky. That's what makes the other Monuments so great.

A classic is 240 km+ and takes place during the weekend. FW has been turned into a semi-classic. Those are facts. Otherwise we can start calling the Scheldeprijs a classic as well... Don't they call it the "unofficial WC of sprinters"? Fans who hate on the Scheldeprijs, but love FW are hypocrites.

Complete and utter nonsense. People can like or dislike them (or any other races) for a variety of reasons.
 
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Re: Re:

Complete and utter nonsense. People can like or dislike them (or any other races) for a variety of reasons

Keep telling yourself that. What makes Scheldeprijs a boring race is exactly the same as what makes FW a boring race. :)
 
Re:

Geraint Too Fast said:
Matthews can't take responsibility for anything. Quite sad really.

He will probably take responsibility for the improvement in his TT ! As for being held back, I think that's short hand for having to ride for Gerrans in some races. They seemed to have some ongoing rivalry. You sensed a bit of that with GVA and Gilbert at BMC especially when Gilbert was out of form. GVA seemed to be getting frustrated about his situation and his place in the pecking order sometimes.
 
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Re: Re:

movingtarget said:
Geraint Too Fast said:
Matthews can't take responsibility for anything. Quite sad really.

He will probably take responsibility for the improvement in his TT ! As for being held back, I think that's short hand for having to ride for Gerrans in some races. They seemed to have some ongoing rivalry. You sensed a bit of that with GVA and Gilbert at BMC especially when Gilbert was out of form. GVA seemed to be getting frustrated about his situation and his place in the pecking order sometimes.

I never understood that as Gilbert didn't ride the cobbled classics from 2013-2016. GVA not winning any cobbled classics in that time period isn't Gilbert's fault. The only classic they rode together in that time period was Milan-San Remo and the Amstel Gold Race, which Phil won in 2014.

With victories in the Driedaagse de Panne and the Ronde van Vlaanderen Phil proved BMC was wrong in not allowing him to ride those races.
 
Re:

Brullnux said:
Matthews has apparently taken note of the criticism and says he wants to be as aggressive as GvA. Blames Orica for holding him back. Unfair attack on his previous employer or accurate?

Accurate. It has been very obvious for years that Orica's main approach is riding for a sprint, no?

That he "blames" Orica is just a personal interpretation of his words, unless you have a video where we can see his non-verbal communication. But based on the cyclingnews interview, I don't see anything wrong or unfair at all. He's not even criticizing the passive tactics, only saying it's what they were told to do and that he prefers it different.
 
Re: Re:

Flamin said:
Brullnux said:
Matthews has apparently taken note of the criticism and says he wants to be as aggressive as GvA. Blames Orica for holding him back. Unfair attack on his previous employer or accurate?

Accurate. It has been very obvious for years that Orica's main approach is riding for a sprint, no?

That he "blames" Orica is just a personal interpretation of his words, unless you have a video where we can see his non-verbal communication. But based on the cyclingnews interview, I don't see anything wrong or unfair at all. He's not even criticizing the passive tactics, only saying it's what they were told to do and that he prefers it different.
I agree that it was to a some extent Orica's tactics, but he has to take some responsibility. On Wednesday he was abysmal. And I really don't think it's a case of 'learning' to be aggressive - that's really the first time I've ever heard that. He makes it sound as if he has few racing instincts.

"I would like to be as offensive as him. The problem is that I learned at my previous team, Orica, to sit and wait for the sprint". To me this sounds like he is addressing the criticism and saying that it was Orica, not his own choice. That's blaming them, in other words.
 
Re: Re:

Brullnux said:
Flamin said:
Brullnux said:
Matthews has apparently taken note of the criticism and says he wants to be as aggressive as GvA. Blames Orica for holding him back. Unfair attack on his previous employer or accurate?

Accurate. It has been very obvious for years that Orica's main approach is riding for a sprint, no?

That he "blames" Orica is just a personal interpretation of his words, unless you have a video where we can see his non-verbal communication. But based on the cyclingnews interview, I don't see anything wrong or unfair at all. He's not even criticizing the passive tactics, only saying it's what they were told to do and that he prefers it different.
I agree that it was to a some extent Orica's tactics, but he has to take some responsibility. On Wednesday he was abysmal. And I really don't think it's a case of 'learning' to be aggressive - that's really the first time I've ever heard that. He makes it sound as if he has few racing instincts.

"I would like to be as offensive as him. The problem is that I learned at my previous team, Orica, to sit and wait for the sprint". To me this sounds like he is addressing the criticism and saying that it was Orica, not his own choice. That's blaming them, in other words.

Did he directly point to Orica for his poor performance Wednesday? If yes, then I agree it's kinda sad and he should take more responsability for it.

But to me it looks like he's just talking in general about his time with Orica. So no, he's not blaming or criticizing them in my book since he doesn't say it was a bad tactic or anything.
 
Re: Re:

El Pistolero said:
Complete and utter nonsense. People can like or dislike them (or any other races) for a variety of reasons

Keep telling yourself that. What makes Scheldeprijs a boring race is exactly the same as what makes FW a boring race. :)

There you go again, changing the argument. You first said people who like FW and not Scheldeprijs are being hypocrites, assuming you know why they dislike and like those races.

The problem is you're always throwing out your opinions as facts. And of course shifting goalposts, erecting straw men, etc...

As I said, people can like or dislike a race for any number of reasons. Because it's propensity for crashes, because they like a specific style of rider, a parcours, the field, excitement/boredom level...there are any number of reasons

I've loved FW for a long time for several reasons:

I fell in love with the race the first time I saw it.
I've always enjoyed climbers who have some punch to them
The finish is one of my favorites in cycling. I love the visual, atmosphere, everything...
I like to participate in races with short, steep climbs at the finish myself
I love seeing who will try to take off at various points of the climb trying to stay away (Betancur's early attempt was exciting to watch and it was great to see him hang on for 3rd).
I love watching people on the absolute edge going up super steep gradients

I don't dislike Scheldeprijs as I don't really dislike any race but it's not one of my favorites because:

There are often bad crashes, particularly near the end and I don't like to see anyone crash.
I certainly appreciate a good bunch sprint occasionally but they'll never be my favorite kinds of races. As I mentioned, I race myself occasionally but tend to steer clear of those flat bunch sprints.
The finish isn't particularly iconic to me
More races end in flat bunch sprints than any other way

So, yes I'm a big fan of one and not the other. How is that being hypocritical? I like and dislike them for different reasons.
 
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Re: Re:

RedheadDane said:
El Pistolero said:
Complete and utter nonsense. People can like or dislike them (or any other races) for a variety of reasons

Keep telling yourself that. What makes Scheldeprijs a boring race is exactly the same as what makes FW a boring race. :)

Because they're both on a Wednesday?

Because they both have no action until the final km. They're also both sprints, one just happens to be uphill.
 
Re:

classicomano said:
Bling today: I want to ride more aggressively and attack more. This is something I wasnt allowed to do when I was at Orica where I was always told to follow wheels and wait for the sprint, but that doesnt actually suit me.

Expect the black hole of entertainment aka Gerro to be glued to his whee on sunday.

What Matthews says is true about one day races - Yet in stage races Orica are very aggressive - Seems that Orica has two different plans depending on the type of race.
 
Re: Re:

Brullnux said:
Netserk said:
Brullnux said:
Matthews has apparently taken note of the criticism and says he wants to be as aggressive as GvA. Blames Orica for holding him back. Unfair attack on his previous employer or accurate?
Well, he could have let his legs do the talking three days ago. So far, it's just talk, no walk.
That was my first thought too, but he seems to claim that it's a mindset he has gotten into because of Orica's previous instructions. He says that he has 'learnt' to stay in the wheels, but I didn't realise that was something that could be learnt, I thought it was just something you did.

He tried to go with Vakoc and Wellens on the last climb but didn't have the legs - Posted before the race Matthews he would struggle because he found the same finish too difficult in 2016 - AG parcours suits him much better so we'll see how he rides his race.
 
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Re: Re:

El Pistolero said:
RedheadDane said:
El Pistolero said:
Complete and utter nonsense. People can like or dislike them (or any other races) for a variety of reasons

Keep telling yourself that. What makes Scheldeprijs a boring race is exactly the same as what makes FW a boring race. :)

Because they're both on a Wednesday?

Because they both have no action until the final km. They're also both sprints, one just happens to be uphill.

Well Milan-San Remo also has no action until the final km's, and usually is a sprint. So? Paris-Tours too... Not every race is the same, nor should be. I for example don't like that so many races in Flanders tackles the same terrain, over and over again. One Ronde is enough. Gent-Wevelgem ok too. Omloop, opener of the season, kind of ok. But E3 and Dwars door Vlaanderen, and on top of that being a WT! Fleche is a race for puncheurs and uphill sprinters, yes. What's the problem with that? How many races are like Fleche? How many races tackles the same terrain? None! It's perfectly fitting that this kind of race has it's own place on the cycling calendar, and perfecty fitting to have a valuable place. Don't like it, fine. Don't watch it then!
 
Re: Re:

yaco said:
Brullnux said:
Netserk said:
Brullnux said:
Matthews has apparently taken note of the criticism and says he wants to be as aggressive as GvA. Blames Orica for holding him back. Unfair attack on his previous employer or accurate?
Well, he could have let his legs do the talking three days ago. So far, it's just talk, no walk.
That was my first thought too, but he seems to claim that it's a mindset he has gotten into because of Orica's previous instructions. He says that he has 'learnt' to stay in the wheels, but I didn't realise that was something that could be learnt, I thought it was just something you did.

He tried to go with Vakoc and Wellens on the last climb but didn't have the legs - Posted before the race Matthews he would struggle because he found the same finish too difficult in 2016 - AG parcours suits him much better so we'll see how he rides his race.

Vakoc and Wellens attacked and Wellens attacked before the last climb. I don't really think this finish is too hard for Matthews. He's finished 2nd twice.