56kh ITT

[The_Cheech]

Re: Re:

Ah, but if you round up 55,446 to 55,45... you can then round that up to 55,5... which you can then round up to 56.

Thus are misrepresentations born - after all, if you go straight from 5sf to 3, you have to round down, to 55,4, and then to 55 rather than 56.

Not sure where this .006kph difference has come from, there's no .006 anywhere.

The thing I'm most bothered about is that I won't be able to bring up Rubén Plaza's awesome wind-assisted 2005 Vuelta TT anymore now it's been topped.

AS IF... 0.006 k/h makes any difference.

My 0.006 k/h rounding up mistake has taken on a life of its own.

Priceless.

 

[The_Cheech]

Re: Re:

I was responding to him throwing the kitchen sink at me for rounding up from .446 to .5.

The kitchen sink was thrown for rounding up 0,446 to 1.....

Ok, TAKE 6! SCENE 1!

MY response was in reference to my comment to Hothra on the 0.006 difference between the number that made sense to round up (55.5 k/h,) instead of the 55.446 that I rounded up by mistake.

Capisci?

I'm honestly taken aback at how much attention the number 0.006 has garnered.

LOL.

 

[King Boonen]

Well someone can't just admit they were wrong...

 

[Metabolol]

Re: Re:

Wiggo has just broken the hour record of 54.526 with a bike that could have been used today in the ITT and you find unbelievable that, although the course had some corners, the guy rode at 54.446 for 13 km? Either Wiggo is a major cheater or Dennis' performance isn't incredible

Both, Wiggo is a cheater and Dennis's performance is not credible.

To be fair though, you don't find any performance credible.

I just wonder what speeds would be acceptable, and whether you ever think performance can be improved through other means than doping? Do you think for example that we have already reached the glass ceiling of athletic performance, and now now the only way to smash through it is through nefarious means?

I've always said performance isn't proof. I'm also open to the idea that speeds will always increase incrementally over time, fuelled by other advances than simply doping.

Riding faster at the TT than anyone else has done before sure aint pointing towards things being clean.

The glass ceiling was reached long ago, not that many knew what it was or when it was reached, because most doped.

All we here is the recycling of 'technique', 'training harder than anyone', 'diet', 'sleeping', etc, stuff that Coppi was doing in the 50s and most teams since, so the reinvention of the wheel continues, but yet it is still circular!! Hmm so what is pushing back records, obviously the only thing that is evolving faster than everything else, PEDs.

Natural progression is a part of sports. Doping can *** it and skew the picture but it's still there.

 

[The_Cheech]

Re:

Well someone can't just admit they were wrong...

I guess you didn't see "my mistake"?

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Well someone can't just admit they were wrong...

I guess you didn't see "my mistake"?

No. I just saw the vitriol and carrying on while blaming others for not letting the discussion lie...

 

[The_Cheech]

Re: Re:

Well someone can't just admit they were wrong...

I guess you didn't see "my mistake"?

No. I just saw the vitriol and carrying on while blaming others for not letting the discussion lie...

You chose not to read.

Awesome.

 

[The_Cheech]

Re: Re:

Natural progression is a part of sports. Doping can *** it and skew the picture but it's still there.

There's nothing "natural" in what we saw today.

Everyone on NBC Universal was taken aback by what Dennis did. Everyone.

And these are folks who have a lot of experience in actual racing.

My take on it is that we just witnessed a new era of sports doping. And, as we all know, as long as the top dude isn't an American, a Brit or an Australian, it's all good.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Wiggo has just broken the hour record of 54.526 with a bike that could have been used today in the ITT and you find unbelievable that, although the course had some corners, the guy rode at 54.446 for 13 km? Either Wiggo is a major cheater or Dennis' performance isn't incredible

Both, Wiggo is a cheater and Dennis's performance is not credible.

To be fair though, you don't find any performance credible.

I just wonder what speeds would be acceptable, and whether you ever think performance can be improved through other means than doping? Do you think for example that we have already reached the glass ceiling of athletic performance, and now now the only way to smash through it is through nefarious means?

I've always said performance isn't proof. I'm also open to the idea that speeds will always increase incrementally over time, fuelled by other advances than simply doping.

Riding faster at the TT than anyone else has done before sure aint pointing towards things being clean.

The glass ceiling was reached long ago, not that many knew what it was or when it was reached, because most doped.

All we here is the recycling of 'technique', 'training harder than anyone', 'diet', 'sleeping', etc, stuff that Coppi was doing in the 50s and most teams since, so the reinvention of the wheel continues, but yet it is still circular!! Hmm so what is pushing back records, obviously the only thing that is evolving faster than everything else, PEDs.

Natural progression is a part of sports. Doping can *** it and skew the picture but it's still there.

Where and how does one plot the natural progression in a sport like cycling where doping has been part of the fabric of the sport for ever????

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Well someone can't just admit they were wrong...

I guess you didn't see "my mistake"?

No. I just saw the vitriol and carrying on while blaming others for not letting the discussion lie...

You chose not to read.

Awesome.

Just found it, hardly an admission really and after multiple people had said that it was perfectly acceptable for it to be pointed out.

You could have just said "Sorry, my bad." and it would have stopped there.

Oh, it seems that in reality hrotha's main problem was your third post where you claim it's almost 60kph. I'm guessing you don't ride a bike, a jump of over 5kph in my all-out effort TT speed and I'd be absolutely ecstatic!

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Well someone can't just admit they were wrong...

I guess you didn't see "my mistake"?

No. I just saw the vitriol and carrying on while blaming others for not letting the discussion lie...

You chose not to read.

Awesome.

Just found it, hardly an admission really and after multiple people had said that it was perfectly acceptable for it to be pointed out.

You could have just said "Sorry, my bad." and it would have stopped there.

Oh, it seems that in reality hrotha's main problem was your third post where you claim it's almost 60kph. I'm guessing you don't ride a bike, a jump of over 5kph in my all-out effort TT speed and I'd be absolutely ecstatic!

Dude, you lambast the guy for going on and then you make the mistake of accusing him of not riding a bike! FFS!

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Dude, you lambast the guy for going on and then you make the mistake of accusing him of not riding a bike! FFS!

Hey!! To be fair if he does I want to know the secret of being so fast that you can give or take 5pkh!!


Although if he replies with "Dave's not here man" I'll spit my coffee all over my laptop and won't be able to respond...

 

[Metabolol]

Re: Re:

Natural progression is a part of sports. Doping can *** it and skew the picture but it's still there.

There's nothing "natural" in what we saw today.

Everyone on NBC Universal was taken aback by what Dennis did. Everyone.

And these are folks who have a lot of experience in actual racing.

My take on it is that we just witnessed a new era of sports doping. And, as we all know, as long as the top dude isn't an American, a Brit or an Australian, it's all good.

I never meant to claim that he is natural but to say that the natural progression of cycling is at an end is nonsense.

 

[The_Cheech]

Re: Re:

Just found it, hardly an admission really and after multiple people had said that it was perfectly acceptable for it to be pointed out.

Well, that's where you and I part ways: Me saying "my mistake" is an admission. Whether you deem it worthy, or not, is your opinion, not mine, hence inconsequential.

You could have just said "Sorry, my bad." and it would have stopped there.

Sorry for what? Why is it so important that I apologize? Why are you so hell bent on fighting someone else's battle? Who do you think you are?

Oh, it seems that in reality hrotha's main problem was your third post where you claim it's almost 60kph. I'm guessing you don't ride a bike, a jump of over 5kph in my all-out effort TT speed and I'd be absolutely ecstatic!

"It seems... you could have... I'm guessing". A lot of uncertainty in the words of a man/woman trying to sell a case-closed argument.

 

[BradCantona]

Surely you'd expect fast speeds when it's a short time trial on stage 1 of the Tour, pan flat, not particularly technical and in fair weather conditions? Like most on here I have my suspicions of doping still, but not sure the speed of Dennis today is a smoking gun or anything. Martin was disappointed with his own performance, Cancellera wasn't far off either... bah who knows anymore anymore

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Natural progression is a part of sports. Doping can *** it and skew the picture but it's still there.

There's nothing "natural" in what we saw today.

Everyone on NBC Universal was taken aback by what Dennis did. Everyone.

And these are folks who have a lot of experience in actual racing.

My take on it is that we just witnessed a new era of sports doping. And, as we all know, as long as the top dude isn't an American, a Brit or an Australian, it's all good.

I never meant to claim that he is natural but to say that the natural progression of cycling is at an end is nonsense.

to insinuate that natural progression can be faster than EPO era times, when they road carbon, aero frames and the technology of now has not advanced that much where bikes weigh less than air etc is really not understanding the sport and how much doping plays a part in the sport.

 

[The_Cheech]

Re: Re:

Dude, you lambast the guy for going on and then you make the mistake of accusing him of not riding a bike! FFS!

Lambast? The reason I'm not laying it on real thick is because I don't want to get banned. I've already been warned by the moderators because some supposedly grown-ass men can't talk without pulling out the "Oh, I feel disrespected" card every time they feel intimidated.

Believe me, if I were given green light I would have this guy shining my shoes and making me breakfast every morning.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

Surely you'd expect fast speeds when it's a short time trial on stage 1 of the Tour, pan flat, not particularly technical and in fair weather conditions? Like most on here I have my suspicions of doping still, but not sure the speed of Dennis today is a smoking gun or anything. Martin was disappointed with his own performance, Cancellera wasn't far off either... bah who knows anymore anymore

I don't know man, 100kph is pretty quick for a time trial...

 

[Metabolol]

Re: Re:

[

Both, Wiggo is a cheater and Dennis's performance is not credible.[/quote]

To be fair though, you don't find any performance credible.

I just wonder what speeds would be acceptable, and whether you ever think performance can be improved through other means than doping? Do you think for example that we have already reached the glass ceiling of athletic performance, and now now the only way to smash through it is through nefarious means?

I've always said performance isn't proof. I'm also open to the idea that speeds will always increase incrementally over time, fuelled by other advances than simply doping.[/quote]

Riding faster at the TT than anyone else has done before sure aint pointing towards things being clean.

The glass ceiling was reached long ago, not that many knew what it was or when it was reached, because most doped.

All we here is the recycling of 'technique', 'training harder than anyone', 'diet', 'sleeping', etc, stuff that Coppi was doing in the 50s and most teams since, so the reinvention of the wheel continues, but yet it is still circular!! Hmm so what is pushing back records, obviously the only thing that is evolving faster than everything else, PEDs.[/quote]

Natural progression is a part of sports. Doping can *** it and skew the picture but it's still there.[/quote]

Where and how does one plot the natural progression in a sport like cycling where doping has been part of the fabric of the sport for ever????[/quote]

You tell me, you are the one claiming the limit has been reached? Like I said doping is going to skew the picture and probably has *** but I don't claim to know exactly what is what.

The fact that many hide their doping behind bs and pseudo-science doesn't mean that natural progress isn't happening.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Dude, you lambast the guy for going on and then you make the mistake of accusing him of not riding a bike! FFS!

Lambast? The reason I'm not laying it on real thick is because I don't want to get banned. I've already been warned by the moderators because some supposedly grown-ass men can't talk without pulling out the "Oh, I feel disrespected" card every time they feel intimidated.

Believe me, if I were given green light I would have this guy shining my shoes and making me breakfast every morning.

Feel free

 

[pmcg76]

Is it really that unbelievable?

Lemond did what, 54 km/h (?) some 20+ years ago and the consensus seems to be that he was clean. Would a 56 km/h performance on a shorter course really be a case of Edgar?

Can it no be about aerodynamics?

Any way you slice it, Dennis was aero as **** today!

For the accuracy, LeMond was 26 years ago and did it on the final stage(i.e not the first) of a tough 3 week Tour, 10km longer than the stage today and LeMond himself has said that the post shooting LeMond was never as good as before. Also take into consideration, LeMond was a GT contender. Where did the GC riders finish today in relation to guys who would have been specifically targeting this stage like Dennis, Martin, Canc etc.

I think the surprise today was the margin of Dennis' victory which was impressive but Dennis has shown his talent in this discipline. As for the silly Dennis the new LeMond comparison, lets see if Dennis is still going for the GC in week 3 shall we.

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

I don't know man, 100kph is pretty quick for a time trial...

LOLOLOLOL

 

[The_Cheech]

Re: Re:

To be fair though, you don't find any performance credible.

We can use the Olympics as a threshold. For example, Victor Conte once said that one of the reasons he got into doping athletes was because some of his clients kept on complaining that some of the records that were broken by East German athletes were so far away from what was naturally capable that he felt compelled.

Once we start hearing cyclists complaining about the times (known doper) cyclists were setting 10-20 years ago we will be able to say that they are not doping. Contrary to that, they are going faster. And today's prologue is a sign that the bad habits are making a comeback.

 

[The_Cheech]

Re: Re:

Feel free

Ironman, do I get the go-ahead to have at this guy without being banned?

 

[Metabolol]

Re: Re:

Natural progression is a part of sports. Doping can *** it and skew the picture but it's still there.

There's nothing "natural" in what we saw today.

Everyone on NBC Universal was taken aback by what Dennis did. Everyone.

And these are folks who have a lot of experience in actual racing.

My take on it is that we just witnessed a new era of sports doping. And, as we all know, as long as the top dude isn't an American, a Brit or an Australian, it's all good.

I never meant to claim that he is natural but to say that the natural progression of cycling is at an end is nonsense.

to insinuate that natural progression can be faster than EPO era times, when they road carbon, aero frames and the technology of now has not advanced that much where bikes weigh less than air etc is really not understanding the sport and how much doping plays a part in the sport.

I haven't insinuated anything and you are preching to the choir in regards to the doping issue. I took issue with your statement that the limit of natural performance has been reached. Also natural progress is not limited to technology.