57th Vuelta al Pais Vasco 3-8 April 2017

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

What a weak generation of cyclists if a 37 year old beats them.

Did you say this about the weak generation of riders that couldn't pull a 35-year-old hill specialist back on the cobbles last week?

This :lol:

 

[May0maniac]

Konrad rode a good TT and finished 7th on gc, I'm happy for him.
The big surprise is Meintjes, I always viewed him as a small diesel climber or at least as someone who prefers the high mountains, finishing 6th on gc in this kind of race is a great result for him.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Valverde the winner does it again - S.Yates again showed he finds those short and steep climbs challenging - Izagirre TT's to his best and he will the GC.

Is Adam better on those climbs? He seems to be a bit punchier.

Adam and Simon are the new Schleck brothers. Pure climbers made for every kind of climbs. Good on both shorter and longer climbs.

I wouldn't be surprised to do well in Fleche Wallone and Liege like Andy and Frank.

I believe Adam is the joint leader with Albasini at Fleche - Rides well and he can finish in the top 10 - Worry about Liege with the cobbled part near the end - The race really split up in 2016 on that short climb.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Contador did a really good time trial in my opinion.

He was just riding against an absolute freak. Freak is not a compliment.

+1 +1 +1
Although Berto really seemed to collapse in the final
I hate fcking GPS. Second time this season I've watched the win slip away as the seconds tick.

Is this acceptable behaviour?
A rider beats another's favourite rider -> that rider is a complete freak.

I hope the moderators will take action against posts such as these, I will report them for sure.

 

[rhubroma]

Re:

We shouldn't overrate Bala's performance, every Movistar rider seems to gain 30W in an ITT on spanish soil.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

We shouldn't overrate Bala's performance, every Movistar rider seems to gain 30W in an ITT on spanish soil .

Even on Basque soil, in a race organized by Basques, where Izagirre is in contention for the win?

This was pretty much the last Spanish major race left for Valverde to win.

He's won:
Vuelta a España (2009)
Clásica San Sebastián (2008, 2014)
Spanish National RR Championship (2008, 2015)
Spanish National TT Championship (2014)
Volta a Catalunya (2009, 2017)
Vuelta a Burgos (2004, 2009)
GP Miguel Indurain (2014)
Vuelta a Andalucía (2012, 2013, 2014, 2016, 2017)
Vuelta a Murcia (2004, 2007, 2008 as stage race, 2014, 2017 as one-day race)
Vuelta a Castilla y León (2016 - albeit long after its fall from grace, never got past 2nd in its heyday)
Klasika Primavera (2003, 2004, 2009)

I mean you could argue he still needs La Rioja, Madrid, Almería and Asturias to complete the set, but those are pretty small races, whereas País Vasco is a legit major race on home soil he had yet to win.

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

I think tactics also played an important role in this TT. With these hilly TTs it can be difficult to pace yourself properly. Going full out on the hill or saving something on the hill to then go hard on the flat. I mean, I think Roglic is a good TT on the flat, but almost a minute out of Contador in 15km? Clearly Roglic saved something extra for the flat. Also look at Louis Meintjes. He was okayish in the first part but not great and then, despite being tiny and not that good in TT, he still managed to limit his losses on the flat very well. I think Meintjes also did a good job pacing himself.

I mean, it's pure speculation on my side, there's no way for us to know what kind of tactical decision in pacing were made, but I think Contador might have made a mistake in pacing himself properly this TT. If the GPS was correct, the amount of time he lost to Valverde in the last few km was insane. Another example of poor pacing would be De La Parte; ahead at the intermediate, but more than a minute behind at the finish line.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re: Re:

What a weak generation of cyclists if a 37 year old beats them.

LMAO, but it would be great if Boonen wins tomorrow

Boonen isn't winning 10 races in the spring season anymore. Cobbled classics have an actual decent field, unlike these races, which are severely lacking last few years.

Since you mention Froome beating Piti on Huy in TDF like 5 times a day, I will mention Fuglsang and Nibali smoking everyone on cobbles in TDF, which implies the field in cobbled classics is trash according to your logic.

Pistolero's logic only applies to circumstances when it is proven correct. Where his logic is proven incorrect, another set of circumstances apply, which can be invented as you go along to defend the hypothesis that all riders you don't like are terrible, and all riders you like are amazing.

Pisti will then post an extremely selective résumé of each rider's palmarès intended to promote the rider he likes and discredit the riders he doesn't, including insulting the field of any race won by a rider he doesn't like, even if the same field is beaten by his preferred rider in a phenomenally strong field.

Pisti is needed for forum balance, despite not necessarily being well liked.

Like ITT

 

[70kmph]

Bring infant onto podium

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

On a more positive note Contador fans should be getting hyped to see him finishing 2nd in the TDF this year, got to be riding well to do that.

And why not I think he can get 2nd in the world champs aswell for the complete set.

Please don't do this
If he finishes 2nd at the Tour I'm really going to kill myself.

Or I'll stop following cycling.

Losing is part of the sport.

And be honest, you can't see this Contador win the Tour anymore? Finishing 2nd would be a win really for Contador 2017 style

"Contador fans should be getting hyped to see him finishing 2nd at the TDF" please
I could see him win if Froome crashes.
But I'd rather see him finish 8th or even as lanterne rouge than 2nd.

 

[deValtos]

Re: Re:

No, they had plenty of TT's when Virenque was at his best.

To be fair at that point the French probably didn't think they were about embark on a 15 year drought of competitive GC riders. Tommy V was their best shot!

But seriously the number of TT kms are designed to always screw over the strongest rider for the race so as to make it "closer". Which it does do. That feels kinda bad tbh, but it makes sense why they do it.

 

[rhubroma]

Re:

I think tactics also played an important role in this TT. With these hilly TTs it can be difficult to pace yourself properly. Going full out on the hill or saving something on the hill to then go hard on the flat. I mean, I think Roglic is a good TT on the flat, but almost a minute out of Contador in 15km? Clearly Roglic saved something extra for the flat. Also look at Louis Meintjes. He was okayish in the first part but not great and then, despite being tiny and not that good in TT, he still managed to limit his losses on the flat very well. I think Meintjes also did a good job pacing himself.

I mean, it's pure speculation on my side, there's no way for us to know what kind of tactical decision in pacing were made, but I think Contador might have made a mistake in pacing himself properly this TT. If the GPS was correct, the amount of time he lost to Valverde in the last few km was insane. Another example of poor pacing would be De La Parte; ahead at the intermediate, but more than a minute behind at the finish line.

Contador fizzled out bigtime in the end. Valverde is just playing with the competition this year. At 37 he must have a determination like no other.

 

[deValtos]

Re: Re:

Contador did a really good time trial in my opinion.

He was just riding against an absolute freak. Freak is not a compliment.

+1 +1 +1
Although Berto really seemed to collapse in the final
I hate fcking GPS. Second time this season I've watched the win slip away as the seconds tick.

Is this acceptable behaviour?
A rider beats another's favourite rider -> that rider is a complete freak.

I hope the moderators will take action against posts such as these, I will report them for sure.

If you ever followed any thread in the TDF where Froome does something Froome-like it turns into the clinic and nothing ever happens.

 

[loge1884]

Re: Re:

Contador did a really good time trial in my opinion.

He was just riding against an absolute freak. Freak is not a compliment.

+1 +1 +1
Although Berto really seemed to collapse in the final
I hate fcking GPS. Second time this season I've watched the win slip away as the seconds tick.

Is this acceptable behaviour?
A rider beats another's favourite rider -> that rider is a complete freak.

I hope the moderators will take action against posts such as these, I will report them for sure.

why bother?

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re: Re:

No, they had plenty of TT's when Virenque was at his best.

To be fair at that point the French probably didn't think they were about embark on a 15 year drought of competitive GC riders. Tommy V was their best shot!

But seriously the number of TT kms are designed to always screw over the strongest rider for the race so as to make it "closer". Which it does do. That feels kinda bad tbh, but it makes sense why they do it.

But they never did this to screw over Indurain and Armstrong who dominated the race more than anyone. That's why it doesn't make any sense to me. Why not put 30 kms of ITT into the '94 or '02 editions

 

[loge1884]

Re: Re:

On a more positive note Contador fans should be getting hyped to see him finishing 2nd in the TDF this year, got to be riding well to do that.

And why not I think he can get 2nd in the world champs aswell for the complete set.

Please don't do this
If he finishes 2nd at the Tour I'm really going to kill myself.

Or I'll stop following cycling.

Losing is part of the sport.

And be honest, you can't see this Contador win the Tour anymore? Finishing 2nd would be a win really for Contador 2017 style

"Contador fans should be getting hyped to see him finishing 2nd at the TDF" please
I could see him win if Froome crashes.
But I'd rather see him finish 8th or even as lanterne rouge than 2nd.

don't worry, AC is ony 34 - he still has 3 years left to get into terminator-mode ....

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

We shouldn't overrate Bala's performance, every Movistar rider seems to gain 30W in an ITT on spanish soil .

Even on Basque soil, in a race organized by Basques, where Izagirre is in contention for the win?

This was pretty much the last Spanish major race left for Valverde to win.

He's won:
Vuelta a España (2009)
Clásica San Sebastián (2008, 2014)
Spanish National RR Championship (2008, 2015)
Spanish National TT Championship (2014)
Volta a Catalunya (2009, 2017)
Vuelta a Burgos (2004, 2009)
GP Miguel Indurain (2014)
Vuelta a Andalucía (2012, 2013, 2014, 2016, 2017)
Vuelta a Murcia (2004, 2007, 2008 as stage race, 2014, 2017 as one-day race)
Vuelta a Castilla y León (2016 - albeit long after its fall from grace, never got past 2nd in its heyday)
Klasika Primavera (2003, 2004, 2009)

I mean you could argue he still needs La Rioja, Madrid, Almería and Asturias to complete the set, but those are pretty small races, whereas País Vasco is a legit major race on home soil he had yet to win.

That's an incredible domestic palmares. Also you can see why he's so popular in Spain and with the national set up as well. Despite being one of the stars of the sport for over a decade, he keeps turning up at a load of relatively minor domestic races and probably keeps some of them solvent with the publicity and interest he generates.

 

[Red Rick]

This is not the place for clinic talk.

For all your innuendo, clinic is this way viewforum.php?f=20

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

don't worry, AC is ony 34 - he still has 3 years left to get into terminator-mode ....

He'll be long retired by them, but not before collecting 7 more 2nd places.

 

[roundabout]

Re: Re:

No, they had plenty of TT's when Virenque was at his best.

To be fair at that point the French probably didn't think they were about embark on a 15 year drought of competitive GC riders. Tommy V was their best shot!

But seriously the number of TT kms are designed to always screw over the strongest rider for the race so as to make it "closer". Which it does do. That feels kinda bad tbh, but it makes sense why they do it.

There were 110 km of reasonably flat TT in 1998 and 5 mountain stages with 2 MTFs. But Virenque said it was a good route for him back when it was presented.

 

[deValtos]

Re: Re:

No, they had plenty of TT's when Virenque was at his best.

To be fair at that point the French probably didn't think they were about embark on a 15 year drought of competitive GC riders. Tommy V was their best shot!

But seriously the number of TT kms are designed to always screw over the strongest rider for the race so as to make it "closer". Which it does do. That feels kinda bad tbh, but it makes sense why they do it.

But they never did this to screw over Indurain and Armstrong who dominated the race more than anyone. That's why it doesn't make any sense to me. Why not put 30 kms of ITT into the '94 or '02 editions

Sure, that is a good point. I would say that these days I think ASO are getting more conscious of trying to market an exciting race rather than just hosting a race for the strongest dude. They're part of an entertainment industry and relative to a lot of other sports they're not exactly raking in the $$$ these days so yea they are taking their product a lot more seriously imo.

You can also point to how races were raced differently back then. You had guys like Pantani/Virenque going on mountain raids for whatever reasons which is different to the Sky train. Also a point for Armstrong is that his biggest challenger Ullrich was almost as good in the TT (see the 2003 TDF and Ulle beat Armstrong in the olympic TT iirc) but was arguably weaker in the mountains.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

No, they had plenty of TT's when Virenque was at his best.

To be fair at that point the French probably didn't think they were about embark on a 15 year drought of competitive GC riders. Tommy V was their best shot!

But seriously the number of TT kms are designed to always screw over the strongest rider for the race so as to make it "closer". Which it does do. That feels kinda bad tbh, but it makes sense why they do it.

There were 110 km of reasonably flat TT in 1998 and 5 mountain stages with 2 MTFs. But Virenque said it was a good route for him back when it was presented.

Has anyone ever gone to a route presentation and said it was absolutely completely crap?

 

[loge1884]

Re: Re:

don't worry, AC is ony 34 - he still has 3 years left to get into terminator-mode ....

He'll be long retired by them, but not before collecting 7 more 2nd places.

maybe while at Tinkoff he got infected by Peter Sagan ....

 

[Valv.Piti]

1998 was a horrible route for climbers.

Ironically, Pantani won, but still.

 

[can3478]

Valverde is very strong, and in 17 days, he will be 37. He's going to win more races this year.

Tom Booen is retiring at 36? Has anyone been this strong at Valverde age?