57th Vuelta al Pais Vasco 3-8 April 2017

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

lol - either Contador and Valverde have been riding intervals - or this GPS gap is a joke.

Late to this, but there was a brilliant moment yesterday on Arrate when the gap from Meintjes and Woods to group 2 was given as 13 seconds. The camera angle changed from a head on shot to a helicopter, and Bala, Contador and co were on the wheel of Woods. The GPS gap promptly disappeared.

But this time they were right, Valverde confirmed himself. He was trailing Contador 15sec at the top of the climb, 9 at the intermediate, 6 at the foot of the Soraluze(at 21km), and finished 14sec ahead at the finish. And he also gained 6sec on Izagirre in that last part. So Contador faded badly, but on the other hand Valverde was flying indeed

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

lol - either Contador and Valverde have been riding intervals - or this GPS gap is a joke.

Late to this, but there was a brilliant moment yesterday on Arrate when the gap from Meintjes and Woods to group 2 was given as 13 seconds. The camera angle changed from a head on shot to a helicopter, and Bala, Contador and co were on the wheel of Woods. The GPS gap promptly disappeared.

But this time they were right, Valverde confirmed himself. He was trailing Contador 15sec at the top of the climb, 9 at the intermediate, 6 at the foot of the Soraluze(at 21km), and finished 14sec ahead at the finish. And he also gained 6sec on Izagirre in that last part. So Contador faded badly, but on the other hand Valverde was flying indeed

Yeah, the general trend was ultimately right I guess. But, it was more the fact that at one stage it was jumping around something like from 5 seconds, then up to 10, then to 12, then back down to 4, up to 8, then it disappeared for a bit and came back as -1, then back up to 3.

 

[Billie]

Re: Re:

lol - either Contador and Valverde have been riding intervals - or this GPS gap is a joke.

Late to this, but there was a brilliant moment yesterday on Arrate when the gap from Meintjes and Woods to group 2 was given as 13 seconds. The camera angle changed from a head on shot to a helicopter, and Bala, Contador and co were on the wheel of Woods. The GPS gap promptly disappeared.

But this time they were right, Valverde confirmed himself. He was trailing Contador 15sec at the top of the climb, 9 at the intermediate, 6 at the foot of the Soraluze(at 21km), and finished 14sec ahead at the finish. And he also gained 6sec on Izagirre in that last part. So Contador faded badly, but on the other hand Valverde was flying indeed

think he overtook Uran in the last part which must have helped him to a couple of seconds extra

 

[lenric]

2 years ago I wrote here that Uran wasn't a GT contender. I was criticized. So good to know that I was right about him.
However, I'm sad, because Uran's potential is higher than what he has demonstrated over the last months.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Alejandro Valverde is absurd.

I can't stand it.

The way Contador used to be ?

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Contador just isn't the same rider anymore. Bala has surpassed him in every department.

Says more about Valverde than about Contador...

Of course a Contador fan would say that.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

I am sure loads have but not out loud

I likes the Pais Vasco ...I like to see riders like De La Cruz, KOnrad, Bennett , MAs & Roglic and others win stages and grow in stature

So it didnt have a MTF ...but loads of races do ...just watch those ...there are plenty

And I thought the last stage was exciting

Sure Valverde won but he would have won whatever the parcours it seems ...

Nice to see a race like PV mix it up ....

Some on here throwing their toys out of the pram because the race didnt go as they thought it should have ..petulant and ridiculous

And the same mis-representation of the arguments which is partly why you get the responses.

For one thing, País Vasco DID have an MTF. It was on stage 5.
For another thing, the TT was exciting.

A mis represeantion of the arguments ? Please !! I didnt represent any arguments ...I talked about the moaning and my view of the race ....Do not mis intrepret my post by putting your a spin on what I said...maybe English is not your first language but please try reading correctly

What responses I get ...the only response is from you and its hostile and inaccurate

And stage 5 ended on a 2 KM downhill ...that is not a MTF ...check your facts
It was about to be won by SAMU who was dropped on the uphill

And I said the TT was exciting ... so ?

 

[johnymax]

Re:

2 years ago I wrote here that Uran wasn't a GT contender. I was criticized. So good to know that I was right about him.
However, I'm sad, because Uran's potential is higher than what he has demonstrated over the last months.

I was of the same opinion. But I just can't believe how he's become such a poor time trialist. WTH happened? As far as climbing ability goes, he's been as good as he's ever been. How can a rider that keeps his climbing ability the same lose so much in TTing without any drastic body shape/weight loss change? I know he changed teams and bikes. But can it cost you to lose minutes? Uran went from doing top5 ITT performances in 2014 to barely sniff a top50 in 2016. In 2017 it doesn't look he improved much.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Konrad's worst stage finish was 15th on stage one, Mayomaniac's hype beginning to pay of, not too bad!

 

[Tonton]

I can't wait for Gilbert vs. Valverde .

 

[El Pistolero]

I can't wait for Gilbert vs. Valverde .

Valverde is better in LBL, but we already knew that. That's why it's a bummer Gilbert is skipping Roubaix. I think people underestimate what Gilbert could do there.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

I can't wait for Gilbert vs. Valverde .

Valverde is better in LBL, but we already knew that. That's why it's a bummer Gilbert is skipping Roubaix. I think people underestimate what Gilbert could do there.

Do you think Gilbert underestimates what Gilbert could do there?

 

[El Pistolero]

I can't wait for Gilbert vs. Valverde .

Valverde is better in LBL, but we already knew that. That's why it's a bummer Gilbert is skipping Roubaix. I think people underestimate what Gilbert could do there.

Do you think Gilbert underestimates what Gilbert could do there?

I'm pretty sure other people made the decision for him.

In this form he should have ridden Roubaix. Riders like Valverde will have had a better build-up to the Ardennes by riding prep races like Catalunya and Pais Vasco.

 

[ferryman]

I can't wait for Gilbert vs. Valverde .

Valverde is better in LBL, but we already knew that. That's why it's a bummer Gilbert is skipping Roubaix. I think people underestimate what Gilbert could do there.

Do you think Gilbert underestimates what Gilbert could do there?

I'm pretty sure other people made the decision for him.

In this form he should have ridden Roubaix. Riders like Valverde will have had a better build-up to the Ardennes by riding prep races like Catalunya and Pais Vasco.

Whit? No way he should ride P-R after his Spring campaign so far. Take it easy, get some nice climbs in and he is back as one of the big favs for whatever Aredenne he wants to target.

 

[Kwibus]

I can't wait for Gilbert vs. Valverde .

Valverde is better in LBL, but we already knew that. That's why it's a bummer Gilbert is skipping Roubaix. I think people underestimate what Gilbert could do there.

Do you think Gilbert underestimates what Gilbert could do there?

I'm pretty sure other people made the decision for him.

In this form he should have ridden Roubaix. Riders like Valverde will have had a better build-up to the Ardennes by riding prep races like Catalunya and Pais Vasco.

Whit? No way he should ride P-R after his Spring campaign so far. Take it easy, get some nice climbs in and he is back as one of the big favs for whatever Aredenne he wants to target.

I agree with Pistolero here. Gilbert in this form would be great for Roubaix. I really doubt he will contend in the Ardennes, but I also doubted he would contend in big races anymore before the season so he could proof me wrong.
Normally he allready peaked and can't maintain this week for the Ardennes, but Valverde seems to be able to peak for a year so what do I know?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Contador just isn't the same rider anymore. Bala has surpassed him in every department.

Says more about Valverde than about Contador...

Of course a Contador fan would say that.

Why?
Valverde isn't just outclimbing and out-TTing Contador, he is also outclimbing Froome and others and almost matching specialists in TTs. His numbers are out of this world. And all that, at nearly 37 years of age. I realize it's easier to put Valverde's amazing performances down to Contador declining but try to look at the bigger picture, it's simply not true.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I can't believe how chubby Ion's baby is :lol:

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re:

I can't believe how chubby Ion's baby is :lol:

That kid's going to be a classics rider

Congrats to Valverde on yet another stage race victory. A lot of people like me probably seemed upset at him winning, but it was more that Contador didn't win. For me I stand neutral with Valverde as far as being a fan or not goes, and respect his abilities on the bike greatly.

I do love the almost love to hate relationship that the forum has with him though. I think it adds a lot of entertainment to these threads. This place would be pretty boring without the likes of Valverde, Gerrans, Terpstra....

However if Valverde makes it another 1-2 with Contador in July I would be too annoyed to offer any words of congratulations!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

A mis represeantion of the arguments ? Please !! I didnt represent any arguments ...I talked about the moaning and my view of the race ....Do not mis intrepret my post by putting your a spin on what I said...maybe English is not your first language but please try reading correctly

What responses I get ...the only response is from you and its hostile and inaccurate

And stage 5 ended on a 2 KM downhill ...that is not a MTF ...check your facts
It was about to be won by SAMU who was dropped on the uphill

And I said the TT was exciting ... so ?

You present the moaning as being because the race didn't have an MTF.

That is completely inaccurate. That is not what the criticism of the parcours was about. It was about the horrible pacing of the race that meant all of the action was condensed into the final two stages, and the misuse of available terrain that could have produced a more interesting finale in stage 3 and made the final climb more selective in stage 4 instead of having everybody on the same time waiting for the final two stages. It's not about the race being bad, it's about how easy it would have been for the organizers to make it better with barely any detours at all, keeping the same start/finishes and mostly the same stage routes.

And Arrate is considered an MTF in Spanish cycling, unless you're prepared to say neither Xorret del Catí or Angliru can be considered MTFs either. There are a few of these such climbs in Spain where the finish is at a monastery, sanctuary or village not quite at the high point of the road, and as the Vuelta didn't go for big summit finishes until the skiing industry took off in the 70s, these frequently presented the nearest thing to high mountain finishes available in Spanish races until that point.

This was the final year of the 10-year agreement that came with the merging of the Euskal Bizikleta and the Euskal Herriko Itzulia for there to be a mountaintop finish at Arrate (the Euskal Bizikleta was a stage race that originally accompanied, and then absorbed, the Subida a Arrate one-day race). Now that they have paved a couple of the alternative sides that were hormigón until recently, it opens up more opportunities for some alternative MTFs while still having Arrate in a key spot in the race, maybe even stage 5 like the last two years with the ensuing TT around Eibar, only then descending the traditional side (like in the 2016 ITT) to finish. If you had a stage that would guarantee gaps on stage 3 or 4 (or even earlier, like Ordizia in 2014) that could produce a really good race.

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

Konrad's worst stage finish was 15th on stage one, Mayomaniac's hype beginning to pay of, not too bad!

I told you that he's the real deal.
He's already good in one week long stage races and has a lot of potential when it comes to hilly one day races.
We still don't know how he recovers in a gt, but I think he has what it takes to finish top 10 on gc in the Vuelta, maybe not this year, he's got a decent sprint, is good on short, explosive climbs and seems to be good in the heat (10th place on gc in Oman and Abu Dhabi as a neopro).

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re: Re:

I think tactics also played an important role in this TT. With these hilly TTs it can be difficult to pace yourself properly. Going full out on the hill or saving something on the hill to then go hard on the flat. I mean, I think Roglic is a good TT on the flat, but almost a minute out of Contador in 15km? Clearly Roglic saved something extra for the flat. Also look at Louis Meintjes. He was okayish in the first part but not great and then, despite being tiny and not that good in TT, he still managed to limit his losses on the flat very well. I think Meintjes also did a good job pacing himself.

I mean, it's pure speculation on my side, there's no way for us to know what kind of tactical decision in pacing were made, but I think Contador might have made a mistake in pacing himself properly this TT. If the GPS was correct, the amount of time he lost to Valverde in the last few km was insane. Another example of poor pacing would be De La Parte; ahead at the intermediate, but more than a minute behind at the finish line.

It is obvious: Contador set the effort at 75 on the hill, clearly overcooked himself and had no green bar left the last 5 kms, That is what happens when you have bad domestiques and cannot rehearse properly the ITT.

Absolutely. Also think Roglic did a 'effort bar' 80 on the previous day, causing him to run out of yellow too early, and then dropping badly.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Contador just isn't the same rider anymore. Bala has surpassed him in every department.

Says more about Valverde than about Contador...

Of course a Contador fan would say that.

Why?
Valverde isn't just outclimbing and out-TTing Contador, he is also outclimbing Froome and others and almost matching specialists in TTs. His numbers are out of this world. And all that, at nearly 37 years of age. I realize it's easier to put Valverde's amazing performances down to Contador declining but try to look at the bigger picture, it's simply not true.

Outclimbing Froome in Catalunya-shape is hardly a grand feat...

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I can't believe how chubby Ion's baby is :lol:

That kid's going to be a classics rider

Alternate caption: Ion brought Betancur with him on stage?!

 

[pastronef]

Re: Re:

I can't believe how chubby Ion's baby is :lol:

That kid's going to be a classics rider

Alternate caption: Ion brought Betancur with him on stage?!

ahahah Flo!

ok mods, close the thread, Flo gets the price for best post by a country mile