97th Liège-Bastogne-Liège 2011

[El Pistolero]

you are totally right.

still, can you call gilbert a true champion?dont run. that doesnt mean that you\we cant like him or be fans of him. look at evans(not the best example but whatever)..

Yes, you can.

And if he wins LBL this year you'll be able to do that as well

 

[theyoungest]

i do acknowledge that and i do admire him. thats not the point here. still, valv beated him last year in liege, as you seem to forget.

Surely you're not going to argue that Valverde was stronger than him in Liege? Because if you do you haven't seen the race.

 

[c&cfan]

Surely you're not going to argue that Valverde was stronger than him in Liege? Because if you do you haven't seen the race.

in the race as a whole?valv was weaker. in the finale? valv was stronger.

pistolero

you can? why? based in what?

even if he wins, it depends how he does it. otherwise it isnt dominating something.(like if he beats gesink in a sprint after the rest of the group was lost in other road. lol you see my point.) but if he wins and this year and another year, as the guy to beat, then yes. we can call him a champion.

 

[La Pandera]

obsession?where?

sorry? you mean be still until the last 5km, work a little with 4km to go, and then, in the last climb, in a race that isnt a monument, that following the favourite's wheel is almost useless, win?

it was a nice win to watch, really nice, indeed.

he is a really good racer, i just dont understand and dont see facts to call him a champion.

champions? active true champions-boonen, canc, valv, conti. then you have basso, menchov cavendish. and thats it. maybe i am forgetting someone... no offense.

to be a champion, you need to win the big races (big sprints for a sprinter, big tts for a tter etc) and dominate them even when you have everyone behind you.

can you call him a champion youngest?i cant.

I think Gilbert has graduated to "champion" status. You have some pretty high standards but confusing considering you have one dimensional riders like Basso and Menchov (nothing wrong with them being considered champions) on your list but won't grant Gilbert the same status. He's been bringing it for almost 2 years straight in a variety of events.

 

[c&cfan]

I think Gilbert has graduated to "champion" status. You have some pretty high standards but confusing considering you have one dimensional riders like Basso and Menchov (nothing wrong with them being considered champions) on your list but won't grant Gilbert the same status. He's been bringing it for almost 2 years straight in a variety of events.

basso killed everyone in 2006 giro, like a champion.
menchov has 3 GTs.

not only that, i have put them one step lower compared to the others.

in the big events (monuments GTs big sprints (for sprinters) the TTs and the worlds) he only has 2 wins. the "consolation" monument.

for variety of events you mean some hilly parcours?

 

[Parrulo]

c&cfan you really are overdoing it with the "true champion crap"

gilbert has proved many times that he is a "true champion" . also you say there are no more hilly classics specialists but thats wrong. just to name a couple: cunego, the schlecks, purito, samu, anton, evans, vino, kolobnev, nibali, contador and thats just to name a few guys who can win a race like liege granted some also do GT's but it doesn't mean that the ardennes aren't on their main goals(big example of this are the schlecks who have their best results in the ardennes then in GT's, and yes for me winning liege is better then a second place at the tour)

oh and i consider amstell the sixth monument. it only lacks age but it has the lenght the field and the super thought course. and no!!!!! no1 uses it as preparation!!!!

oh and lombardy isn't the consolation monument it also has a good field and its a thought race to win.

 

[La Pandera]

You can't call Rebellin a champion as well then.

Valverde never did anything in both his LBL wins besides in the sprint. Totally sucking Rebellin's wheel in 2008. Almost got beaten by a 19 year old or something even.

The Amstel Gold Race has just an as hard competition field as LBL. And the course is also pretty hard, harder than some other Monuments. The only difference is, it's not old enough to be called a Monument.

I fail to see how Valverde's stage win in the Tour of 2008 is more impressive than anything Gilbert has shown. I've actually seen way more impressive stuff from Gilbert the last 2 years.

LBL is a battle of attrition and year after year Valverde has shown that he's one of the steadiest finishers, with almost yearly finishes in the top ten.
In Valverde's defense the onus was on Rebellin and Frank Schleck to rid themselves of Valverde before the final, which they could not. At the time it was a known fact that on most uphill finishes that you didn't want to have Valverde in your group, such was his reputation for dominance in those scenario's. And what 19 year old are you talking about?????
Granted it will be interesting to see what happens when Valverde returns and returns to his previous form which I think won't be until 2013 (form). Regardless, comparing the two only really applies in the Ardennes because Valverde isn't likely to compete in the cobbled classics and Gilbert hasn't shown any propensity whatsoever for contending in grand tours or even week long stage races.

As far as Valverde's 2008 stage win, well that is a matter of opinion. If your only way of guaging one's wins is by how far out they initiate their winning attacks, then Gilbert could be your man. But considering the number of times he failed before his finally getting the timing down for his attacks in the past 2years, then you could just as well say the same about Valverde's failed attempts at grand tour success before finally winning the 2009 Vuelta regardless of the condition of his opponents. One can't be responsible for the condition, luck or lack there of of his opponents. They can only take the circumstances in which they are confronted and turn them to their advantage.

 

[La Pandera]

"I thought he was loco or super strong," Rodriguez said as it was clear that Gilbert was wasting energy just before they were about to reach the tough final climb. The group was closing in on Schleck and the Luxembourger was soon to be caught on the Cauberg when Rodriguez launched a surprise attack.

"I thought it was possible to beat him by attacking from far out. He turned out not to be mad but super strong. The way he accelerated... super. Super-Gilbert. He pulled off a great numéro.

"To finish second is a great achievement and hopefully I'll feel as good in Flèche Wallonne and Liège-Bastogne-Liège," Rodriguez said. The top rider in 2010 on the UCI rankings aims to get a win in one of the upcoming races and then he'll aim for a good result in the overall classification of the Giro d'Italia.

By the way, Canc called him the Cancellara of the Ardennes [/B]. Shouldn't talk about him self in third person, but oh well.

I hope you're kidding about the part in bold or Cancellara has confirmed to me that he's just way, way too full of himself. He and Andy really need to stop hanging out, they're just bad for one another.

 

[La Pandera]

what does that have to do with this discussion?

rodriguez saying that.. well, it was a great kick by gilbert. we saw it. but that's it.

again you put canc in the mix... do you want to know what is being a champion? there.. the canc. RVV,PR,e3, WiTT. thats what it means being a champion. than if you win that like he did, you are superman.

A "champion" with humility wouldn't take the superman moniker and run with it though.

 

[La Pandera]

yes, he is.

but did he ever beat valverde for the win or in a uphill sprint in a small group? i dont remember. but even if he did, how many times was be beaten by valv?

still, that isnt important.

what matters is that no one can call him a true champion based in acelerations (almost all are just futile), not important(for the big guns) wins etc, because he isnt.

basically, you call him a champion based on nothing that makes a cyclist a true champion. how's that?

You obviously don't realize that people have varying opinions on what defines a champion. Indurain wasn't the most dramatic of riders and based on your definition he would only fall into the "true champion" category in races versus the clock with those being mainly the only stages where he actually dominated. IMO that is ludicrous.

 

[La Pandera]

yes, he is.

but did he ever beat valverde for the win or in a uphill sprint in a small group? i dont remember. but even if he did, how many times was be beaten by valv?

still, that isnt important.

what matters is that no one can call him a true champion based in acelerations (almost all are just futile), not important(for the big guns) wins etc, because he isnt.

basically, you call him a champion based on nothing that makes a cyclist a true champion. how's that?

By the way I'm likely the biggest Valverde fan there is but still I can appreciate the talents of Gilbert although I think Valverde would show him a clean set of wheels in most uphill sprints.

 

[El Pistolero]

He got beaten by Frank Schleck at the Cauberg sprint in 2008.

Just sayin'

 

[Parrulo]

He got beaten by Frank Schleck at the Cauberg sprint in 2008.

Just sayin'

and cunego

p.s. 5 posts in a row for la pandera. . . now that must be a record

 

[La Pandera]

He got beaten by Frank Schleck at the Cauberg sprint in 2008.

Just sayin'

I thought Frank Schleck won in a solo breakaway? I'll have to verify that one because I'm almost certain that was how it transpired.

 

[La Pandera]

and cunego

p.s. 5 posts in a row for la pandera. . . now that must be a record

Must not be many folks on the forum, plus my skills aren't advanced enough so that I can have multiple post responses in my one reply.

 

[Parrulo]

I thought Frank Schleck won in a solo breakaway? I'll have to verify that one because I'm almost certain that was how it transpired.

franky boy won in 2006

in 2008 cunego won followed by franky and then piti. pisti only mentioned franky because he isn't that fast on any kind of finish

Must not be many folks on the forum, plus my skills aren't advanced enough so that I can have multiple post responses in my one reply.

there is always the edit option but its ok the multi posts don't bother me so keep going ^_^

 

[La Pandera]

He got beaten by Frank Schleck at the Cauberg sprint in 2008.

Just sayin'

Rebellin boxed him in, delaying his response if my recently rejuvenated memory serves me correctly. We all know that put them in the same circumstance again and Valverde would win 9 out of 10 times.

 

[La Pandera]

franky boy won in 2006

in 2008 cunego won followed by franky and then piti. pisti only mentioned franky because he isn't that fast on any kind of finish



there is always the edit option but its ok the multi posts don't bother me so keep going ^_^

Thanks for refreshing my memory. I'd forgotten about Cunego's win. That was the one that I was thinking of where Valverde was boxed in. Frank isn't likely to beat Valverde in any sprint, uphill or down.

 

[El Pistolero]

Thanks for refreshing my memory. I'd forgotten about Cunego's win. That was the one that I was thinking of where Valverde was boxed in. Frank isn't likely to beat Valverde in any sprint, uphill or down.

Actually he got beaten more than once on the Cauberg when he was in the leading group.

Gilbert would blast him away on a finish like that these days. He hardly ever makes mistakes when sprinting in a small group.

Gilbert has won the Cauberg sprint three times in a row now. Valverde might beat him nine out of ten times on flattish sprints, but uphill?

 

[jaylew]

Must not be many folks on the forum, plus my skills aren't advanced enough so that I can have multiple post responses in my one reply.

Hit the multi-quote button in the bottom left of each post you want to quote. When you are finished, click the post reply button and each quote will appear in your post.

Gilbert has won the Cauberg sprint three times in a row now. Valverde might beat him nine out of ten times on flattish sprints, but uphill?

8 out of 10.

 

[il_fiammingo]

in the race as a whole?valv was weaker. in the finale? valv was stronger.

There's only one answer to that

 

[ultimobici]

Am I the only one amazed that Valv (Piti) is held up as a champion in light of his current situation?

This is a rider who has been at the centre of allegations since 2006 and is now banned, yet he is some sort of Campionissimo of the Ardennes.

Gilbert may not have won as much yet but the way in which he has won and the manner in which he conducts himself generally is far more in the way of a champion than Valverde ever could hope to be.

Come this Sunday, I hope to see him confirm his spring talent as he already has done in October.

 

[jens_attacks]

Gilbert may not have won as much yet but the way in which he has won and the manner in which he conducts himself generally is far more in the way of a champion than Valverde ever could hope to be

of course he is.i've heard valverde even used to rape innocent children...now move it to clinic

valverde=big champ
gilbert=big champ,he has time to win maybe even more than alejandro(- the vuelta)

 

[theyoungest]

Am I the only one amazed that Valv (Piti) is held up as a champion in light of his current situation?

This is a rider who has been at the centre of allegations since 2006 and is now banned, yet he is some sort of Campionissimo of the Ardennes.

Gilbert may not have won as much yet but the way in which he has won and the manner in which he conducts himself generally is far more in the way of a champion than Valverde ever could hope to be.

Come this Sunday, I hope to see him confirm his spring talent as he already has done in October.

Except the clinic issues, I don't really see much difference in the way Gilbert and Valverde behave themselves. Generally nice guys, who want the whole team to work for them.

 

[boomcie]

of course he is.i've heard valverde even used to rape innocent children...

I also heard about this. Reportedly though they were not human children but small raccoons. Valverde also stated that they were not innocent at all and that they provoked him numerous times.

He also denied the use of performance enhancing drugs in preparation of this gruesome act.