98th Tour de France presentation

[roundabout]

I understand that points in the intermediate sprint are awarded for the top 15 so it may not be that much of a breakaway killer

 

[Moondance]

As i said before, the tt is going the way of the dodo in the Tour. 70k itts become 60 k worth of tts individual AND team for the whole Tour.

Amen.

I will welcome the extinction when it comes.

 

[Kwibus]

Well this parcours looks pretty good imo. Maybe they should've added a 30-40k TT in the first week. This could've created more attacking in the first mountain stages which is essential in mountain stages.
I haven't seen any stage profiles of the stages before the first real mountain stages, but I read here that there are some uphill finishes which is really good!

I must say I'm looking forward to this tour, but I guess I always am. Despite the fact the TDF is always way too defensive. This is also the main reason I hope they invite the Colombians to the tour. At the cost of Vacans if it really has too!

edit: Actually remove the TTT (Hate it!) and replace it with an ITT on the same parcours.

 

[luckyboy]

Might be bit premature, but what teams do people think are getting in then?

Reckon those top 15 are pretty much certain. The 4 French teams are covered by the agreement still, aren't they? So one of the 3rd group miss out (Vacansoleil) if there's gonna be 21 teams. The bottom group all miss out.

Astana, Saxo Bank-Sunguard, Lampre-ISD, Luxembourg Project, Liquigas-Cannondale, Katusha, Team Sky, RadioShack, Rabobank, Garmin-Cervélo, Quick Step, Telefonica, Omega Pharma-Lotto, Team HTC-Columbia, Euskaltel-Euskadi

FDJ, AG2R La Mondiale, Cofidis, Europcar

Geox-TMC Transformers, Team BMC, Androni Giocattoli, Vacansoleil

Colombia es Pasión-Café de Colombia, Skil-Shimano, Team Pegasus, Saur-Sojasun

 

[The Hitch]

Way to completely kill off any chances of a break on flat stages, ASO.

This might be a good thing. The only breaks i saw this year were the ones which killed off all the mountain stages bar Tourmalet and Morzine. Otherwise none succeeded. Ax 3 Domainx - break. Bagners de Lucheon - break. Pau - break. Madeline - break. That day after where Paulinho won - break. Day Chavanel took yellow - break. Sprinters stages on the other hand all ended the way we didnt want them too. Break never came close. So at least we get the advantage of a better green jersey battle, and hopefully less chance of break killing off potentialy interesing mountain stages.

Only good breakaway stage as i remember was the Col Laurent Jallaber. And there the break was caught early and with 90km to go (past where the intermediate sprints are usually) a new break formed, creating epic racing with Saxo vs Vino and Vino coming so so close in the finish.

 

[The Hitch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKPoHgKcqag

Is that to Robert gesink?

Marcus135= new best friend!!!!!! Another great poster. We cadel fans must stick together as the other no cadel fans like to try to bring us down!!!!

You know it, Baby

I dont get it. The video is Marvin Gaye

 

[The Hitch]

Nothing brings out the fanboys like the Tour de France.
The Cuddles fanboys have gone way OTT. Claiming that its unfair to have mountains in the Tour ever since Cuddles became more of a classics specialists. Claiming that it is tts which create excitement in gts and that we shouldnt have too many mountains. + raging against Prudehome and calling the course a joke



The Contador fan boys (or fan boy) bring in conspiracy theories that the tour is rigged in Andy Schlecks favour. Evidence for this is that there were 2 tts untill he started winning the white jersey. Yep, the whole Tours 08 09 and 10 were made specifically so that Andy Schleck would have the grandest prize of them all. The u25 catergory

The Cav fan(boys) say the MV system is now against him THis despite the fact that THor gets half the points for his superhuman performances as Cav gets for his 10 second sprints.

 

[The Hitch]

And who will wear yellow going into the TTT?

Good point. The top 3 in gc go last. Before that its decided by overall team. So If the favourites dont have someone in top 3 they could end up going first and weather might play a part like it did in the Giro this year.

 

[Christian]

Most important realization of the day: Andy finally SUITED UP!

 

[luckyboy]

To be fair, if there was an extra TT, things would be closer between people like Menchov & AC, AS. Then the climbers would have to attack in the mountains rather than just wait til the final stage to try and do something.

 

[Christian]

Then the climbers would have to attack in the mountains rather than just wait til the final stage to try and do something.

Huh? I don't really understand what you mean. Climbers always attack in the mountains and it's always risky to wait for the last stage (cf. Andy). Plus that stage will only be 109 km long, it'll hardly be a Grand Bornand or a Tourmalet

 

[Dalakhani]

The question mark over Contador makes this hard to read.

If he's banned, having a TTT, rather than an ITT, may make the race less competitive (compensating for Andy Schleck's weakness).

If he's not banned, the TTT could be expected to make the race more competitive.

Steve

 

[guncha]

This discussion proves that for some people the route of TDF will be bad regardless what kind of mountains are put on the route. This time TDF doesn't lack mountains, it has too less ITT km.

At first, TDF is usually criticized that there are no small hill finishes in the first week while Giro has plenty of them. In 2011 there will be two finishes like that. The first week will also provide finish at 3rd cat. Super Besse which comes right after a solid 2nd climb. First week will provide a few small time split opportunities among GC contenders.

TDF of 2011 will have four finishes at H.C. climbs which is more than usual. In addition none of those are single col stages, all of them have few other 1st cat. or H.C. climbs.
In Pyrenees 13.4km, 7,6% Ardiden have 17km, 7.4% Tourmalet and one first cat. climb which makes it 3 hard climb classic. 15.9km 7.8% Plateu de Beille have 4.4km, 9.6% Aspet and 9.8km, 8.2% Agnes as well as two other 1st and 2nd cat climbs.
Galibier stage have 9.1km, 9.9%(!) Agnel followed by 14.2km 7.2% Izoard. In Giro 2007 Agnel and Izoard was climbed before 20km decent to Briancon and it was the most exciting stage of that Giro. This time Galibier will be added as a bonus after those two monsters.
And finally, 13.8km 7.9% Alpe d'Huez have Galibier from its hardest side. I guess there will be enough of mountain action in TDF 2011.

While high mountains come in 2nd week only the last two Giro editions had the same picture and Giro has never been criticized for that. Actually, this looks more like a Giro route than a Tour route...

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I like climbing. This race has increased the MTF percentage by 67%.

And yet I still think it's a garbage route. Super-Besse only split things up by a handful of seconds last time, and the uphill ones like Mûr-de-Brétagne won't split things by more than a few seconds. The TTT will likely be the only really decisive stage for the first 2 weeks.

If this was the Giro or Vuelta there'd be a lot of potential in this route, but we all know that the Tour is raced differently. And that means it will probably be tedious as all hell. One thing's for sure, I'm not booking time off work for the first two weeks of this drivel.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

I like climbing. This race has increased the MTF percentage by 67%.

And yet I still think it's a garbage route. Super-Besse only split things up by a handful of seconds last time, and the uphill ones like Mûr-de-Brétagne won't split things by more than a few seconds. The TTT will likely be the only really decisive stage for the first 2 weeks.

If this was the Giro or Vuelta there'd be a lot of potential in this route, but we all know that the Tour is raced differently. And that means it will probably be tedious as all hell. One thing's for sure, I'm not booking time off work for the first two weeks of this drivel.

So it's a garbage route, but there could be a lot of potential in this route, and you actually just hate the race and the style of racing it entails, rather than the route

Rather like sprint stages, I'm wondering why you don't just accept the Tour de France is not for you, and watch other races instead.

 

[CatsNK]

I like climbing. This race has increased the MTF percentage by 67%.

And yet I still think it's a garbage route. Super-Besse only split things up by a handful of seconds last time, and the uphill ones like Mûr-de-Brétagne won't split things by more than a few seconds. The TTT will likely be the only really decisive stage for the first 2 weeks.

I agree. Watching 4 hours of a giant pack followed by 2 minutes of "excitement" doesn't do it for me. At all.

Seems like a better route than this year, which was a total snoozefest. Maybe the best thing to hope for is some fun weather conditions. The weather at both this year's Giro and this year's Vuelta added to the excitement, IMO. (rain and heat, respectively) Maybe there will be huge rains or incredible heat next July in France. We can hope.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Nothing brings out the fanboys like the Tour de France.
The Cuddles fanboys have gone way OTT. Claiming that its unfair to have mountains in the Tour ever since Cuddles became more of a classics specialists. Claiming that it is tts which create excitement in gts and that we shouldnt have too many mountains. + raging against Prudehome and calling the course a joke



The Contador fan boys (or fan boy) bring in conspiracy theories that the tour is rigged in Andy Schlecks favour. Evidence for this is that there were 2 tts untill he started winning the white jersey. Yep, the whole Tours 08 09 and 10 were made specifically so that Andy Schleck would have the grandest prize of them all. The u25 catergory

The Cav fan(boys) say the MV system is now against him THis despite the fact that THor gets half the points for his superhuman performances as Cav gets for his 10 second sprints.

And the Purito fanboys are horribly dissapointed by the 41km TT that are still in.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

So it's a garbage route, but there could be a lot of potential in this route, and you actually just hate the race and the style of racing it entails, rather than the route

Rather like sprint stages, I'm wondering why you don't just accept the Tour de France is not for you, and watch other races instead.

I think next year I probably will. I hate the way the Tour is raced, and accept that the organisers have a tough job trying to find a way to put some excitement in it. It's just sad that it's the one time in the year we get to see more than the last 90 minutes or so of stages, and the one time in the year where you can guarantee nothing will happen in 90% of those stages.

I see they've tried to bunch all the interesting stuff together. Maybe week 3 will be worth watching. The first two are just a waste of everybody's time, and they may as well hold it over one week and call it the Dauphiné.

 

[El Pistolero]

Nothing brings out the fanboys like the Tour de France.
The Cuddles fanboys have gone way OTT. Claiming that its unfair to have mountains in the Tour ever since Cuddles became more of a classics specialists. Claiming that it is tts which create excitement in gts and that we shouldnt have too many mountains. + raging against Prudehome and calling the course a joke



The Contador fan boys (or fan boy) bring in conspiracy theories that the tour is rigged in Andy Schlecks favour. Evidence for this is that there were 2 tts untill he started winning the white jersey. Yep, the whole Tours 08 09 and 10 were made specifically so that Andy Schleck would have the grandest prize of them all. The u25 catergory

The Cav fan(boys) say the MV system is now against him THis despite the fact that THor gets half the points for his superhuman performances as Cav gets for his 10 second sprints.

No conspiracy, just an observation. Ever since 2008 the Tour has been lacking in the time trial department. I wouldn't even mind this route if Contador was in it as he has the advantage in the mountains and in the time trial anyway. But if you take out Contador that's when you're going to want more time trials. Unless you loved the Tour of 2005 of course. This Tour will be dominated from stage 1 to stage 21 by a single person. Unless a wonderboy à la Ricco steps up.

 

[rghysens]

Huh? I don't really understand what you mean. Climbers always attack in the mountains and it's always risky to wait for the last stage (cf. Andy). Plus that stage will only be 109 km long, it'll hardly be a Grand Bornand or a Tourmalet

True, but they can attack with 4km to go and they can attack with 2 climbs to go. If there was a long (50+ km), flat tt before the pyrenees, some (all) climbers would lose time to guys like leipheimer, menchov, evans,... forcing them to attack earlier if they want a spot on the podium.
I'm afraid that the stage to Luz Ardiden will be a snoozefest until 5km to go. There are still 3 mtf's left and no much tt'ing.

This route could have used a second (first, actually) tt.

 

[The Hitch]

And the Purito fanboys are horribly dissapointed by the 41km TT that are still in.

Very nice

 

[Boeing]

So Andy's itt position is less problematic here. But he better find a hammer for the front of the train at the TTT

 

[Eraserhead]

C'mon guys. It's not about time trialists chances, it's about excitement of the race. Yeah, Giro was great, but lack of TT's km wasn't the reason. The mean reason was big breakaway. Remember Terminillo ? That stage was fu**ing boring. Remember all the mountain stages after L'Aquila ? Right, They all was tremendous. So, Liqui was forced to be active on each mountain stage, and that the reason why 2010 Giro edition was such spectacular.
Same with Le Tour. If guys like Andy, Purito or Bobby Gesink will be in situation, when they doesn't have necessity to attack, what can stimulate them to animate the race ? Stage win ? Nobody cares about stage wins, it's all about general classification (bonus seconds can change things a little bit, but nevermind, at least as long as Prudhomme is the boss). So, as long as climbers will not have stimulus to make a time gaps, we will see only one true mountain stage. The only way to create a exciting race is to increase ITT kms.

2010 - 59 ITT kms. Boring Tour
2009 - 55 ITT kms. Most boring Tour... ever
2008 - 82 ITT kms. Not bad at all.
2007 - 117 ITT kms. Epic.
2006 - 116 ITT kms. Not the best Tour, but not as bad as 09 and 10.
2005 - 74 ITT kms; 2004 - 81 ITT kms. Boring
2003 - 103 ITT km. Hors catégorie

So, as you can see, more ITT km ---> more excitement

 

[rghysens]

No conspiracy, just an observation. Ever since 2008 the Tour has been lacking in the time trial department. I wouldn't even mind this route if Contador was in it as he has the advantage in the mountains and in the time trial anyway. But if you take out Contador that's when you're going to want more time trials. Unless you loved the Tour of 2005 of course. This Tour will be dominated from stage 1 to stage 21 by a single person. Unless a wonderboy à la Ricco steps up.

Igor Anton?

 

[El Pistolero]

Igor Anton?

He'll drop out on the neutralized part of stage 1.