98th Tour de France presentation

[Ferminal]

i still wait for the profiles of en ligne stages but there is a chance that this year's route is the worst ever in le tour's history.trust me,there won't be significant changes in GC untill plateau de beille,no one will risk up to luz ardiden.because they all will be close on GC and they will say "hey,i don't take the risks,i wait for plateau de beille".it will be like morzine this year(14 favourites at the top,mick rogers still there !!! and schleck attacking for ten seconds).
let's don't even bother talking about super besse.there is a chance to see gillbert taking that.hell if lotto will have a great team for the TT,gillbert coud be in yellow until luz ardiden.

i agree with Aguirre.le tour needs a change.a pretty big one.

It's funny because the Luz Ardiden stage is the hardest in the Tour since at least Galibier-Croix de Fer-Alpe-D'Huez in 2008. Yet it guarantees nothing.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Surprised to hear that Cadel is content about the route.

“I think Cadel learned a lot from 2010,” Hincapie said. “This year he did the Giro before the Tour. I think he’ll race less next year and really focus on the Tour. We’re excited about the team time trial, and he’s excited about the Alpe d’Huez. He seems quite content with the route.”

Does anyone have any actual quotes from Cadel?

I have calmed down a bit now and I'm trying to stay positive!

 

[EmpressJo]

Does anyone have any actual quotes from Cadel?

From Twitter:

#tdf 2011 presented. Looks like a flatter -read more stressful- start & hard finish. Hard, like always...

And while we're at it, Baby Schleck (rooting for big bro):

Back Home from TDF presentation. the parcours suits really good for a LUXEMBOURGER @schleckfrank ready for new adventure a painful one!

...and his big bro, who clearly disagrees with a lot of you:

Nice route form ASO congrats for the TDF 2011,gonna be great i like the parcours.lots of climbs

 

[Arnout]

Team Sky already planning to keep their leaders jersey till stage 9.

Seems they didn't learn anything.

 

[Ferminal]

Team Sky already planning to keep their leaders jersey till stage 9.

Seems they didn't learn anything.

And an overall podium, I'm not sure Uran can improve that much in a season.

We’re excited about the team time trial

Cryptic?

 

[euanli]

Seems like a realistic appraisal though. I'd expect Liquigas, HTC, Sky or Garmin to win the TTT

 

[craig1985]

I think the stages that could really be affected by the cross winds should be good to watch.

 

[Descender]

Quite.

It's a general theme at the Tour throughout the decades.
Less TTs -> Everyone is closer on GC -> Everyone takes a lot less risks -> Racing is boring

This, this and this!

 

[The Hitch]

I read that one of the stages is in memory of Fingon. Is this true? Which one?

 

[karlboss]

2010
1 prologue,
9 flat stages,
6 mountain stages and 3 summit finishes, (4 if include the kick to mende)
4 medium mountain stages,
1 individual time-trial stage (52 km). 61km with prologue

2011
10 flat stages,
6 mountain stages and 4 summit finishes,
3 medium mountain stages,
1 individual time-trial stage (41 km).
1 team time-trial stage (23 km). 64km TT

Formulaic. Climbers have no incentive to try for big gaps, there is enough incentive for TTers to hang tough and try to take it in the TT. We will watch a replay from 2010 with this tour, only without Contador. My favourite stages are like 9 and 15 last year, and they are gone.

It will be a close tour, but a close tour is not a good tour. Good tours are unpredictable tours. Watching climbers attack at the start of a climb and wondering if they can make it. Watching an attack on the second to last climb and wonder if they can hold it. Wondering if a break will take a dangerous chunk of time. Watching a mountain stages nowdays is almost as dull as watching HTC lead out a sprint...only it lasts longer.
The difference to years past is team tactics, teams need to change them, or the route needs something special. The Giro works as they don't have the depth of field and a novel, super tough course. The tour Course needs to be more novel again to get a similar standard of race.

Stage 19 should be hell The head of the race will be on 6w/kg the whole way.

 

[Altitude]

It will be a close tour, but a close tour is not a good tour. Good tours are unpredictable tours. Watching climbers attack at the start of a climb and wondering if they can make it. Watching an attack on the second to last climb and wonder if they can hold it. Wondering if a break will take a dangerous chunk of time. Watching a mountain stages nowdays is almost as dull as watching HTC lead out a sprint...only it lasts longer.The difference to years past is team tactics, teams need to change them, or the route needs something special. The Giro works as they don't have the depth of field and a novel, super tough course. The tour Course needs to be more novel again to get a similar standard of race.

Race radios...

 

[karlboss]

Race radios...

Wouldn't help, same messages get through just slower. These sort of race numbing tactics can be set out from the start, no need for race radios. Hey Saxo don't let the break get more than 5 minutes...not that hard.

Actually the new green points set up might be more interesting or boring than anything else...now HTC can control the peloton not allowing the break to go anywhere until the intermediate point.

 

[Altitude]

Wouldn't help, same messages get through just slower. These sort of race numbing tactics can be set out from the start, no need for race radios. Hey Saxo don't let the break get more than 5 minutes...not that hard.

Actually the new green points set up might be more interesting or boring than anything else...now HTC can control the peloton not allowing the break to go anywhere until the intermediate point.

Eliminating radios would certainly make a difference. Riders would have to think for themselves and make split decisions during the race. Everything would be less calculated and therefore more exciting.

 

[karlboss]

Eliminating radios would certainly make a difference. Riders would have to think for themselves and make split decisions during the race. Everything would be less calculated and therefore more exciting.

Don't believe the hype, breakaways get no leeway at the tour, any number of teams are strong enough to control them. At the Giro the huge break was created by liquigas and astana looking at each other and saying no you do the work. They had radios and knew who was riding away from them.

At the tour Astana looks at saxo, looks at liqui, looks at rabo, looks at HTC, etc. Only one of them has to step up. In fact 2010 Astana and Saxo made sure noone went anywhere, no radios wouldn't have changed that.

Noone goes anywhere is not a tough tactic to think through.

 

[The Hitch]

Don't believe the hype, breakaways get no leeway at the tour, any number of teams are strong enough to control them. At the Giro the huge break was created by liquigas and astana looking at each other and saying no you do the work. They had radios and knew who was riding away from them.

.

As i remember they were misinformed as to who was in the break and how much time they had, until it was too late.

 

[Altitude]

Don't believe the hype, breakaways get no leeway at the tour, any number of teams are strong enough to control them. At the Giro the huge break was created by liquigas and astana looking at each other and saying no you do the work. They had radios and knew who was riding away from them.

At the tour Astana looks at saxo, looks at liqui, looks at rabo, looks at HTC, etc. Only one of them has to step up. In fact 2010 Astana and Saxo made sure noone went anywhere, no radios wouldn't have changed that.

Noone goes anywhere is not a tough tactic to think through.

I don't mean it would make a huge difference for breakaways. It would however, make a difference at ciritcal points in the race. For example-- would Cancellara have gone in Paris-Roubaix when he did without the radio? No, because he likely didn't even know Boonen was at the back of the group until Riis told him so. Riis said in his ear "now you go" and Canc just put his head down and went. Riders don't have to be as attentive with radios in their ear, they just do exactly what their director tells them. Lead outs wouldn't be nearly as precise either.

 

[karlboss]

I don't mean it would make a huge difference for breakaways. It would however, make a difference at ciritcal points in the race. For example-- would Cancellara have gone in Paris-Roubaix when he did without the radio? No, because he likely didn't even know Boonen was at the back of the group until Riis told him so. Riis said in his ear "now you go" and Canc just put his head down and went. Riders don't have to be as attentive with radios in their ear, they just do exactly what their director tells them. Lead outs wouldn't be nearly as precise either.

One day races are not GTs.

Hitch you are right, teams did claim they didn't know who was there until they lost about 8 minutes. Still grew to 17, before coming down to almost 13. So they knew in enough time to try to pull them back, they just fought about who should until they lost another 9.

 

[Altitude]

One day races are not GTs.

OK... the same could obviously be applied to a GT mountain stage

 

[karlboss]

OK... the same could obviously be applied to a GT mountain stage

How so?

Time is important in GT's not who wins each stage (unless bonuses are included of course)

 

[Altitude]

How so?

Time is important in GT's not who wins each stage (unless bonuses are included of course)

Whether you're going for a stage win or not, your goal is still the same-- attacking and putting time into your opponents. You still have to decide when to attack, no? With radios a rider attacks when he is told to. Without radios the rider makes the decision himself. Simple

 

[karlboss]

Whether you're going for a stage win or not, your goal is still the same-- attacking and putting time into your opponents. You still have to decide when to attack, no? With radios a rider attacks when he is told to. Without radios the rider makes the decision himself. Simple

Not true. To win a stage you don't need to put any time into your opponents. To win a GC you do.
If on a mountain stage you are listening to a radio as to when to attack and which attacks to follow you've already lost.

 

[Altitude]

Not true. To win a stage you don't need to put any time into your opponents. To win a GC you do.
If on a mountain stage you are listening to a radio as to when to attack and which attacks to follow you've already lost.

Wow. I hope you are just messing with me (chapeau if so). But if not:

The point I am making is that when a GC rider launches an attack, his intent is to put time into his opponents, regardless of whether or not that attack will win him a stage. Radios tell you when to attack, how your opponents are doing, where everyone is in relation to you. All the information is being shouted into your ear. No radios= a rider figuring everything out for himself. Are you really arguing that radios make zero difference in a GT? That's why all the riders made such a fuss when they eliminated them for one stage?

 

[karlboss]

Wow. I hope you are just messing with me (chapeau if so). But if not:

The point I am making is that when a GC rider launches an attack, his intent is to put time into his opponents, regardless of whether or not that attack will win him a stage. Radios tell you when to attack, how your opponents are doing, where everyone is in relation to you. All the information is being shouted into your ear. No radios= a rider figuring everything out for himself. Are you really arguing that radios make zero difference in a GT? That's why all the riders made such a fuss when they eliminated them for one stage?

If you mean when a GC rider launches an attack you should state it. You seem to reference both one day riders and GC contenders in your last post.

Of course radios make a difference just not the one you think. You've overstated their importance. Once you hit the decisive part of the last climb radios hardly matter. Lance didn't look over at his shoulder at Ullrich and then ask Johann if now is the time. If you can reference one MTF they did I'll listen, maybe "Alberto wait, that was andy dropping his chain you look like an a** attacking". I'm sure it's happened can't wait to read the replies.

Radios are important so the threat and success of breaks can be determined more accurately and quickly. Allowing HTC to reel them back in on cue, making sure (2010) Astana and Saxo don't let someone like kreuziger take 10 minutes.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Team Sky already planning to keep their leaders jersey till stage 9.

Seems they didn't learn anything.

You keep bagging sky for me. If I do TSF may strike me down. Really, who at sky is going to keep the leaders jersey for 9 stages? Beats me?

 

[Marcus135]

You keep bagging sky for me. If I do TSF may strike me down. Really, who at sky is going to keep the leaders jersey for 9 stages? Beats me?

I can only imagine they are saying that for publicity because judging from how then went this year they have no chance at all of holding that jersey for even a day, besides i think there is 3 or 4 teams at least that can beat them in the TTT. Wiggins they probs plan to take it but i cant see him holding it at all