"A breakaway professional league"

[BroDeal]

I can't believe I'm going to day this as not so long ago I was advocating a breakaway.... BUT... I think the radio saga has shown the teams cannot be trusted to put the interests of the sport ahead of their own selfish interests and so cannot be trusted to govern the sport among themselves.

Oh, come on. Between Voigt making sure that no rider has to think for himself and Vaughters making the Pro Tour a permanent club with exclusive access to the grand tours what could go wrong?

 

[Oldman]

I can't believe I'm going to day this as not so long ago I was advocating a breakaway.... BUT... I think the radio saga has shown the teams cannot be trusted to put the interests of the sport ahead of their own selfish interests and so cannot be trusted to govern the sport among themselves.

That's my point. If they aren't serious about serious things why believe the sport will evolve. Again, the proposals the riders have made seem more tuned to real progress. Give up on the radio bullsh*t and clean house.

 

[spalco]

Oh goody, pro-doping protests are back. Yes, that will make awesome positive headlines.

 

[ultimobici]

Then many of them need to put down the needle.

Many of the euros seem to do a good job of getting organized when their supply of dope gets threatened:

http://www.nytimes.com/1998/07/31/s...st-101-riders-say-race-must-go-on.html?src=pm

This was over a decade ago. Glad to see how far we've come...

Those Euros you slate had a point in 1998. The raids were done in the middle of the night with riders being woken up. Not really a reasonable thing to do to a rider in the middle of a three week stage race, is it?

I agree that they have not moved on much if at all since then but that's not an exclusively European trait either.

 

[Benotti69]

at this rate they might as well let Amgen, Bayer, Novartis, GlaxoSmithKline and BristolMyersSquibb run the new league

 

[Archibald]

so if the lunatics create their own asylum, what happens with the races?
two Paris-Roubaix's, or
one for only one "league", or
one race with mixed league teams?

Would ASO or Zomegan(sp?) invite teams from both UCI and the Cycling New World Order?

 

[hrotha]

Those Euros you slate had a point in 1998. The raids were done in the middle of the night with riders being woken up. Not really a reasonable thing to do to a rider in the middle of a three week stage race, is it?

Wasn't doping already illegal in France at the time? Weren't those riders, quite literally, criminals?

 

[jens_attacks]

we'll find out soon.prudhomme and zomegnan already had discussion with vaughters.uci will remain with just one race,the world champs.

there won't be any teams that will remain with uci i guess

it's funny,so the lunatics are the riders and their representatives not the uci pigs?big lol

 

[spalco]

it's funny,so the lunatics are the riders and their representatives not the uci pigs?big lol

I trust none of them. Least of all the riders though.

 

[Angliru]

No de Gendt, Riblon, Casar, Pineau, Hoogerland, Kiryienka, Machado, Rubén Pérez, Moncoutié or Pauriol?

Hey, I'm at work and that's the best I could do off the top of my head, although Moncoutie especially, Casar and Hoogerland should've been no brainers.

 

[Angliru]

Fabian Cancellara
Alexander Vinokourov

....and how could I forget the master, Vino???!!

 

[Angliru]

"Why don't you want to wear the ribbon!"

Great Seinfeld reference BroDeal!

 

[ultimobici]

Wasn't doping already illegal in France at the time? Weren't those riders, quite literally, criminals?

The raid on TVM were done in the middle of the night. They were raided as a result of a newspaper article about an incident in March, the whole team were detained and then released without charge on the rest day, then taken for tests in the middle of the night several days later. Surely the correct way would have been to act in March not wait until dead of night in the middle of the Tour?

While I do not have any sympathy for those guilty of doping, I find the Gendarmarie's actions heavy handed and as a result of a need to be seen to be "doing something" about the problem.

 

[Suedehead]

The raid on TVM were done in the middle of the night. They were raided as a result of a newspaper article about an incident in March, the whole team were detained and then released without charge on the rest day, then taken for tests in the middle of the night several days later. Surely the correct way would have been to act in March not wait until dead of night in the middle of the Tour?

While I do not have any sympathy for those guilty of doping, I find the Gendarmarie's actions heavy handed and as a result of a need to be seen to be "doing something" about the problem.

As was reported in the Indipendent in the fall of 1998:
"Every rider (in the TVM team) tested positive for several banned substances including steroids and growth hormones. At least four used erythropoietin (EPO), which enhances the oxygen-carrying capacity of the blood. Three others were declared positive for amphetamines and a fourth for cannabis. The report said the riders used powerful "home- made cocktails" of banned substances." (The test were from july 1998, not spring 1998)

I say they deserved every thing they brought on themselves. 1999 they were the first to be banned from the tour on moral grounds. Then the sponsor left cycling. The riders failed, not the gendarmerie.

 

[ultimobici]

As was reported in the Indipendent in the fall of 1998:
"Every rider (in the TVM team) tested positive for several banned substances including steroids and growth hormones. At least four used erythropoietin (EPO), which enhances the oxygen-carrying capacity of the blood. Three others were declared positive for amphetamines and a fourth for cannabis. The report said the riders used powerful "home- made cocktails" of banned substances." (The test were from july 1998, not spring 1998)

I say they deserved every thing they brought on themselves. 1999 they were the first to be banned from the tour on moral grounds. Then the sponsor left cycling. The riders failed, not the gendarmerie.

The point I was making was that the French Police knew that TVM were doping in March 1998 as one of their team vehicles was stopped on the Spanish-French border and doping products were found. No action was taken until July 1998, yet only days after Wily Voet was caught they decided to act. TVM's riders' guilt or innocence is irrelevant in judging the actions of the authorities. In the same way that a criminal's guilt is irrelevant when the police act outside the law or with a lack of decorum.

BTW what is the source for every rider testing positive?

 

[hrotha]

Sometimes (read: all the time) police operations are put off to maximize their effects later on. In March they had a TVM car, in July they had the whole team, not to mention other teams who would have been more careful if the police had gone full throttle in March.

 

[ultimobici]

Sometimes (read: all the time) police operations are put off to maximize their effects later on. In March they had a TVM car, in July they had the whole team, not to mention other teams who would have been more careful if the police had gone full throttle in March.

Bearing in mind that the police stated at the time of Festina that the TVM incident was not connected I'd say that they weren't waiting for anything. It just wasn't anywhere near the top of their list of priorities until Voet was caught on the Belgian border. With the Tour start only days away they couldn't ignore it.

i fully appreciate that Police action often takes longer than one would like, hence the nickname "Plod". But the TVM car was stopped on 3 March 1998, quantities of doping product was found but they did nothing? That's like catching drug runner with a kilo of coke, letting them go just to possibly get a larger unknown haul at a point some time in the future, but closing the investigation there and then. WIly Voet was caught by luck rather than judgement from what I have read. He and Festina were not targeted at all, rather caught by a routine stop on a quiet lane crossing the border. French Customs were looking for common or garden drug running rather than the doping variety. They only reopened the TVM investigation as a result of the Festina scandal and a newspaper article. Hardly an ongoing investigation, was it?

 

[jens_attacks]

it seems that the name of the league will be :

World Cycling Tour

congrats vaughters,bruyneel and everyone who can make this happen as soon as possible!


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-president-mcquaid-addresses-pro-riders-on-radio-ban

 

[Suedehead]

Source:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cycling-tvm-teams-riders-took-drug-cocktails-1184236.html

Police random priorites may seem/be strange: But failure to act in the spring doesn't make it right to not act during the tour, if there is strong suspicion that criminal activity is going on.

 

[Jamsque]

it seems that the name of the league will be :

World Cycling Tour

congrats vaughters,bruyneel and everyone who can make this happen as soon as possible!


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-president-mcquaid-addresses-pro-riders-on-radio-ban

It all smacks of political manoeuvring. Puts me in mind of the Unibet affair, except that was race organisers vs UCI more than teams vs UCI. Ultimately I think the race organisers will decide this issue, and they are far more likely to come down on the side of the UCI since they are locked in to contracts with them.

 

[Mellow Velo]

it seems that the name of the league will be :

World Cycling Tour

congrats vaughters,bruyneel and everyone who can make this happen as soon as possible!


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-president-mcquaid-addresses-pro-riders-on-radio-ban

You must be nuts.
Nothing good can come out of anything Bruyneel has got his fingers in.
Might as well call in the Kamikaze league, cos safety will be the last thing on Hog's mind.

Besides, it may not fly.
An open letter from McQuaid, in which, he states that if radios aren't out, the tv companies probably are:

http://www.uci.ch/Modules/ENews/ENe...es/UCI/UCI5/layout.asp?MenuId=MTYxNw&LangId=1

I don't see the ASO going down the no show road.

 

[jens_attacks]

yes the german tv is out because of the race radios=)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
and french were whining!!!!!!!wowwwww it's hot in dubai!!

rat mcquaid getting desperate.

mate,chill tv's like radios.

 

[Mellow Velo]

yes the german tv is out because of the race radios=)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
and french were whining!!!!!!!wowwwww it's hot in dubai!!

rat mcquaid getting desperate.

mate,chill tv's like radios.

If this gets off the ground, race radios will cease to be an issue.
The issue will be that we get to see Bruxelles to Spa, or the Milan Criterium, whenever the riders decide.
You can kiss goodbye to Plan de Corones and the Colle dell Finestre.
Wave bye bye to the Gavia in May.

Oh and I can't wait to see the Hog's anti-doping programme.

 

[jens_attacks]

The issue will be that we get to see Bruxelles to Spa, or the Milan Criterium, whenever the riders decide.
You can kiss goodbye to Plan de Corones and the Colle dell Finestre.
Wave bye bye to the Gavia in May.

i sincerely doubt that anything of those will happen.the riders won't take over the race organizers too.trust me if zomegnan wants 18 mtf's in one giro edition no one will stop him.

 

[Havetts]

For once I completely agree with Paddy, shame he doesnt mention one way radios though