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A doping scandal of Olympic proportions?

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Oct 27, 2009
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skidmark said:
I curl in a league, and I can guarantee that the biggest performance-enhancing drug (or maybe, more accurately, just 'drug') used at the club level is beer. There's an omerta in curling about the overuse of this drug, and they have it dialled into the very systems that support curling... for instance, in my curling club there is a little speaker box in the middle of the rink that athletes and team members can discreetly go to in the middle of a game, call up to the bar, and have the waitress bring down however many beers the athletes feel like popping at the time. The effects are numerous and sometimes subtle - the lack of inhibition to allow you to yell 'hurry!' or 'whoa!' a little bit louder, the extra need to lean on the broom as you go down the ice to increase sweeping power, the lack of focus necessary to avoid the pressure of a tough shot. All minor adjustments, but that makes all the difference at that level. And as far as a recovery drug, I can attest to seeing almost all curlers drink a few beers - openly - after every game, sometimes to the point where they're not even themselves at the end of the night, stumbling and getting friends to drive them home. If you're not drinking beer, you'll get smirks and laughs from the other curlers, and nobody even dreams of speaking out against it. Omerta, man, it's pretty crazy.

I'm comfortable discussing this behind the veil of anonymity that the internet offers, but I guarantee that if any of my teammates knew I was writing this, I'd be looking for a new team next week.

You could probably sell this story as an expose'. That is too funny!:)
 
That would be great if an effective test for hematide is being used.

XC Skiing has been rife with doping problems as long, and almost as bad as cycling. 2002 Salt Lake games anyone? The only thing that's kept doping from being at the level of cycling is the simple fact that the money isn't there. :(

As many as this may be, it seems like Beijing was the all-drug Olympics.

kiwirider said:
Someone I know who has had first hand experience of pro hockey has told me that PED use is rife in the sport.
I don't know if it's a fact, but word is hockey has more athletes that end up in detox from pain killers than probably any other sport. Anyone verify?
 
Aug 4, 2009
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skidmark said:
It is true, all jokes aside. The 'elite' level of curling in the last 15 years has undergone a change to make it kinda like a 'real' sport with increased media exposure (at least here in Canada), but I still remember when I was a kid we'd watch the national championships on TV and they'd have the guys' bios and it'd be like 'occupation: fireman' or 'house painter' or something like that. And they'd smoke and drink while playing in the national or world championships. Pretty fantastic that it's an olympic sport.

Not much different from British track cycling in the 1980s, then.
 
Jul 23, 2009
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Bumping thread to see if anyone has heard which athletes were involved in this issue now that we're halfway through the games.
 
Oct 16, 2009
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pedaling squares said:
Bumping thread to see if anyone has heard which athletes were involved in this issue now that we're halfway through the games.

No big names. I think some smaller names from some of the smaller sports were identified... SSDD.

In other news, German biathlete and double olympic champion Magdalena Neuner is leaving Vancouver before the relay because of the vampires treating athletes "worse than pigs": http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-e...old-winner-they-treat-us-worse-than-pigs.html
 
goggalor said:
No big names. I think some smaller names from some of the smaller sports were identified... SSDD.

In other news, German biathlete and double olympic champion Magdalena Neuner is leaving Vancouver before the relay because of the vampires treating athletes "worse than pigs": http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-e...old-winner-they-treat-us-worse-than-pigs.html

LOL. Anytime an athlete leaves when they still have an event to perform in, it makes me a bit suspicious ;). Will have to keep an eye on Ms. Neuner ...
 
Aug 4, 2009
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the biggest problem of XC Skiing at this moment is asthma and possible abusing antiasthma drugs. If i remember correctly almost every member of norwegian woman ski team suffers asthma. Marit Bjoergen won 3 gold medals having since December Wada's approval for strong antiasthma medicine - strongest one than previous drug which accordig to official statement was not sufficient. i don't know if it's fair or unfair but for me it's odd. New drug - new monster power :D:D:D. Moreover her medical test were conducted in national sports centre not in independent international centre.
XC skiers are not as rich as top cyclist are so they developed probably legal doping procedures in fact.
 
Jun 21, 2009
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Wigry3 said:
the biggest problem of XC Skiing at this moment is asthma and possible abusing antiasthma drugs. If i remember correctly almost every member of norwegian woman ski team suffers asthma. Marit Bjoergen won 3 gold medals having since December Wada's approval for strong antiasthma medicine - strongest one than previous drug which accordig to official statement was not sufficient. i don't know if it's fair or unfair but for me it's odd. New drug - new monster power :D:D:D. Moreover her medical test were conducted in national sports centre not in independent international centre.
XC skiers are not as rich as top cyclist are so they developed probably legal doping procedures in fact.

i also find this interesting.

would just like to point out that she has had this approval since last summer, july/august time.

not so sure about that all of the women on the norwegian team have asthma either, some of them do but not all.

however, and this is the interesting part:
* it is claimed by the bjoergen camp that this asthma medicine DOES NOT HELP if you don't actually have this asthma.
--> If that's correct, why do Wada even bother putting it on the doping list?
--> If that's not correct, why do the norwegians come up with lies about it?

:confused:
 
Is there enough money in skiing to make searching out a Fuentes or a Ferrari style program worthwhile? Or are all the federal bodies funding medical programs for the whole team?

Are the ones getting caught the ones not able to afford elaborate blood doping? Or is it the "little fish" scenario as in cycling.
 
Wigry3 said:
the biggest problem of XC Skiing at this moment is asthma and possible abusing antiasthma drugs. If i remember correctly almost every member of norwegian woman ski team suffers asthma. Marit Bjoergen won 3 gold medals having since December Wada's approval for strong antiasthma medicine - strongest one than previous drug which accordig to official statement was not sufficient. i don't know if it's fair or unfair but for me it's odd. New drug - new monster power :D:D:D. Moreover her medical test were conducted in national sports centre not in independent international centre.
XC skiers are not as rich as top cyclist are so they developed probably legal doping procedures in fact.

The biggest problem in XC skiing is more likely blood doping and 'product' use.
 
May 13, 2009
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Ferminal said:
Is there enough money in skiing to make searching out a Fuentes or a Ferrari style program worthwhile? Or are all the federal bodies funding medical programs for the whole team?

Are the ones getting caught the ones not able to afford elaborate blood doping? Or is it the "little fish" scenario as in cycling.

I watched the 50k yesterday and it was fun. Not as much fun as cycling but still. Obviously, what works in cycling should also work in X-country (and speed skating). X-country more so since the race is longer. The main difference is that they don't race 50k every day so maybe there's less need for recovery.

About the money: I don't know how much there is in skiing, but I suspect it's quite a bit less than cycling. How much can Petter Northug get through endorsements and sponsorship? We know how much riders paid for the service of Fuentes. We know how much Kohl charged for use of the centrifuge etc. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out whether doping in X country is economically viable.
 
Oct 16, 2009
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I believe it's only Marit Bjørgen on the Norwegian XC team who uses this asthma medicine (Salbutamol, the same drug Petacchi was non-negative for in 2007). The debate is interesting, but it would be even more so if it wasn't initiated by a former (?) doper (Justyna Kowalczyk) after her request to use the medicine was denied, a request which came despite having no problems with asthma (none that I know of anyway)...

Blood doping is certainly a bigger issue, though. There are some seemingly obvious cases of it in the XC peloton, but because it's such a small sport it's hard to be sure which performances are PED-aided and which are not.

Edit:
Cobblestones said:
About the money: I don't know how much there is in skiing, but I suspect it's quite a bit less than cycling. How much can Petter Northug get through endorsements and sponsorship? We know how much riders paid for the service of Fuentes. We know how much Kohl charged for use of the centrifuge etc. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out whether doping in X country is economically viable.
They don't make a lot of money, so I think it's hard for an single skier to run a personal doping program. Which is probably why Andrus Veerpalu only competed in one world cup event (home in Otepää, Estonia) before the 50K in the Olympics. :rolleyes: (Northug is probably starting to earn a decent amount from sponsorships now, but if he's on a program at the moment it's likely "state-funded", so to speak.)

The larger national federations probably have enough money to keep a decent medical program going. The recent flood of Russian positives might suggest that they're in over their heads, though, economy-wise. I think it was much easier in the 90s.
 
May 13, 2009
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goggalor said:
I believe it's only Marit Bjørgen on the Norwegian XC team who uses this asthma medicine (Salbutamol, the same drug Petacchi was non-negative for in 2007). The debate is interesting, but it would be even more so if it wasn't initiated by a former (?) doper (Justyna Kowalczyk) after her request to use the medicine was denied, a request which came despite having no problems with asthma (none that I know of anyway)...

Blood doping is certainly a bigger issue, though. There are some seemingly obvious cases of it in the XC peloton, but because it's such a small sport it's hard to be sure which performances are PED-aided and which are not.

Edit:

They don't make a lot of money, so I think it's hard for an single skier to run a personal doping program. Which is probably why Andrus Veerpalu only competed in one world cup event (home in Otepää, Estonia) before the 50K in the Olympics. :rolleyes: (Northug is probably starting to earn a decent amount from sponsorships now, but if he's on a program at the moment it's likely "state-funded", so to speak.)

The larger national federations probably have enough money to keep a decent medical program going. The recent flood of Russian positives might suggest that they're in over their heads, though, economy-wise. I think it was much easier in the 90s.

That's probably it. If there's doping, it's likely some kind of state program. Private doping programs (Fuentes style, not amateurish do-it-yourself) might be too expensive for most of these athletes.
 
Jun 21, 2009
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goggalor said:
Blood doping is certainly a bigger issue, though. There are some seemingly obvious cases of it in the XC peloton, but because it's such a small sport it's hard to be sure which performances are PED-aided and which are not.

Northug is probably starting to earn a decent amount from sponsorships now, but if he's on a program at the moment it's likely "state-funded", so to speak.

for the last bit, i'd not be surprised to learn northug'll make £1m this season.

that should be enough to run a full programme on his own, no?

then to the top point:

what really makes it hard is that the material is such an important component. The quality of skies and the preperation of them for the different conditions is worth several minutes difference in a 10k. Also the technique comes into it big time.

Which is why there's a slim possibility that the best norwegian skiers in the 90's were clean (in the sense they didn't take anything illegal at the time). Coz of the '94 olympics being held in norway, they got money thrown at them to have the best skies and the most and the best people to prep their skies. I read a book about the political side of norwegian sport in the 90's, and the XC skiing team leaders were actually struggling to spend the money available to different projects on how to ensure they had the best skies :eek:
 
workingclasshero said:
for the last bit, i'd not be surprised to learn northug'll make £1m this season.

that should be enough to run a full programme on his own, no?

then to the top point:

what really makes it hard is that the material is such an important component. The quality of skies and the preperation of them for the different conditions is worth several minutes difference in a 10k. Also the technique comes into it big time.

Which is why there's a slim possibility that the best norwegian skiers in the 90's were clean (in the sense they didn't take anything illegal at the time). Coz of the '94 olympics being held in norway, they got money thrown at them to have the best skies and the most and the best people to prep their skies. I read a book about the political side of norwegian sport in the 90's, and the XC skiing team leaders were actually struggling to spend the money available to different projects on how to ensure they had the best skies :eek:

Yeh, would suck to getting your skis wrong in the race you saved your transfusion for.

When I heard about Veerpalu, the alarm bells went off straight away, playing the big preparation game.
 
Mar 2, 2010
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Ferminal said:
Is there enough money in skiing to make searching out a Fuentes or a Ferrari style program worthwhile? Or are all the federal bodies funding medical programs for the whole team?

Are the ones getting caught the ones not able to afford elaborate blood doping? Or is it the "little fish" scenario as in cycling.

In many cases the money comes from national teams/unions and some of that money comes from sponsors. Anyway the need to succeed and thus the lure of using peds is as high as in any sport. Even some small countries have spent more than 10million € just to prepare for this year's Olympics.

It also seems that some of these national unions are just as corrupt as the one run by Fat McPaid.
 
Jul 20, 2009
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workingclasshero said:
for the last bit, i'd not be surprised to learn northug'll make £1m this season.

that should be enough to run a full programme on his own, no?

then to the top point:

what really makes it hard is that the material is such an important component. The quality of skies and the preperation of them for the different conditions is worth several minutes difference in a 10k. Also the technique comes into it big time.

First of all, there is no way Northug makes that much.
Secondly, I agree with the part about the material. In the early 90s the difference was huge, today it is most visible during "tricky" conditions. Skies and technique put together is more important than doping
 
Mar 4, 2010
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pedaling squares said:
Bumping thread to see if anyone has heard which athletes were involved in this issue now that we're halfway through the games.

This was a pathetic publicity stunt by WADA. All those 30 names had already been outed by their federations. They made it seem like 30 new cases when it's really just 30 known cases over the last 18 months or so.

goggalor said:
In other news, German biathlete and double olympic champion Magdalena Neuner is leaving Vancouver before the relay because of the vampires treating athletes "worse than pigs": http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-e...old-winner-they-treat-us-worse-than-pigs.html

That is a lie. Magdalena did not leave Vancouver, she was the german flag bearer at the closing ceremony.

http://www.bild.de/BILD/sport/olymp...traegt-deutsche-fahne-bei-abschlussfeier.html

This is why she skipped the relay.

http://www.ctvolympics.ca/biathlon/news/newsid=51057.html#coffee+call+takes+beck+from+beans+bronze

http://www.dog-bewegt.de/interaktiv/singleview/article/224.html

Furthermore, she did not criticize drug testing as such, but merely how she was treated by anti-doping officials after a race.

http://www.ctvolympics.ca/biathlon/news/newsid=50192.html#neuner+sorry+lambs+slaughter+jibe

Neuner has said many times that biathletes should be tested even more often.

http://www.biathlon2b.com/interviews/interview-mit-magdalena-neuner-4

"Leider macht der Sport in letzter Zeit auch immer wieder Negativ-Schlagzeilen: Nach der Leichtathletik-WM in Berlin ist das Thema Doping wieder in alle Munde. Auch die Biathleten werden immer wieder mit Doping-Verdächtigungen konfrontiert. Belastet dich das?
Magdalena Neuner: Ich selbst weiß, wo meine Leistung herkommt und habe auch in mehreren Interviews bereits stärkere Kontrollen für uns alle angemahnt. Ich bin für harte Strafen im Doping und langfristige Sperren. Aber vieles ist auch immer Einzelfallbetrachtung und die Diskussion über Doping birgt so manches pauschale Vorurteil in sich"

Ferminal said:
Ran out of blood?

Neuner has been the fastest skier in 45% of world cup races and top 3 in 82% since she was a junior. Her body must replace a pint of blood in like a week. What a medical marvel this Neuner!

Don't get me wrong, I don't fully trust any top endurance athlete, but there's really nothing suspicious about her apart from the fact that she is one.

workingclasshero said:
however, and this is the interesting part:
* it is claimed by the bjoergen camp that this asthma medicine DOES NOT HELP if you don't actually have this asthma.
--> If that's correct, why do Wada even bother putting it on the doping list?
--> If that's not correct, why do the norwegians come up with lies about it?

:confused:

Studies have shown that it is performance enhancing in non-asthmatics if you take more than therapeutic doses.
 
Oct 16, 2009
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So Germany's--if not the world's--best biathlete, in a sudden fit of generosity decides to give her place on the relay to Beck, and the German coaches just comply?! A Neuner in top form could potentially gain half a minute on the other teams. Sounds like BS to me... I don't know, maybe that's the cynical pro cycling fan in me speaking. Shrug.

Tyler'sTwin said:
Neuner has said many times that biathletes should be tested even more often.

http://www.biathlon2b.com/interviews/interview-mit-magdalena-neuner-4
That's good, I guess, and I agree.
 
Mar 4, 2010
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goggalor said:
So Germany's--if not the world's--best biathlete, in a sudden fit of generosity decides to give her place on the relay to Beck, and the German coaches just comply?! A Neuner in top form could potentially gain half a minute on the other teams. Sounds like BS to me... I don't know, maybe that's the cynical pro cycling fan in me speaking. Shrug.


That's good, I guess, and I agree.

Why couldn't she do that? Your little conspiracy theory doesn't make sense at all. What would she avoid by pulling out of the relay? You think she won 2 golds and one silver without doping or with something undetectable then decided to take a detectable substance before the freakin relay knowing full well that she would be drug tested after it, then goes "nah, i don't think I want a 2 year ban, this was a pretty bad idea" and decides to pull out of the relay, just hoping that they wont drug test her randomly again but just to make it more exciting she decides to not only stay in the olympic village, but also to criticize the behaviour of the anti-doping officials thus drawing attention to herself? Do you think she's completely ***? :rolleyes:

Oh, and in the PC after winning the masstart, she said she was feeling worn out mentally. No doubt she was already planning to shoot up a massive load of EPO and pull out of the relay.
 
Mar 4, 2010
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Tyler'sTwin said:
Oh, and in the PC after winning the masstart, she said she was feeling worn out mentally. No doubt she was already planning to shoot up a massive load of EPO and pull out of the relay.

It should be, she already announced her decision to pull out of the relay in the PC right after winning the masstart.

Perhaps you could explain the logic behind this evil masterplan?
 
Oct 16, 2009
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Ummm, ok, but I never said she was doping, though, because I really have no clue about Neuner. What I've said is that her giving Beck her place in the relay purely out of generosity sounds like BS. I think there are other reasons, and no, not necessarily doping related ones. Maybe she couldn't take the pressure, or she was worn out mentally--she is very young, after all. I see now that's seems to be part of the "official" explanation.

... OR perhaps she was given a bad refill, or she already tested positive, or maybe she's some kind of evil Zionist fembot and her batteries went flat.