A Tough Situation for the Giro

[Francois the Postman]

Some of us tend to think that a person's death is a bit more important than a bike race.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

[to all:]

Just because someone is quicker with their ability to reflect on wider implications, doesn't mean they are less sorry or sad to see it happen, care less about the people that are affected, think that the race is more important, or are out of line by looking at wider implications.

If people find that hard to deal with, maybe it is wiser to take some time to step back from this thread, rather than target people who react differently (not the same as inappropriate btw).

Let's not take today's death as a reason to take swipes at each other. It isn't fair, respectful. or appropriate, to anyone.

Let's not make this a competition in appropriate grieving/reflecting/responding.

 

[killswitch]

http://www.bikechatter.com/

Fumy Beppu tweet:

Wouter Weylandt R.I.P I saw his crash real time. I was just behind him he was alone nobody around him at the moment on the downhill...

 

[Merckx index]

But how do we balance the sport with the risk. Where do we draw the line between challenging and dangerous. The tragedy of the sport is that this could happen anywhere.

I think brutal honesty demands that we recognize it isn't just tragedy but also beauty, that part of the appeal of most sports is the element of danger. One of the aspects of a sport that makes heroes out of winners is knowing they have to perform near the edge in order to become champions. Joseba Beloki's TDF crash was horrendous, but it also added to LA's legend when he avoided the same fate in the flick of an eye. Even today people recount that as one of the defining moments in TDF history, without any thought that maybe the sport is too dangerous.

How many of us have watched in awe as Savoldelli rocketed down some twisting descent, and later remarked that seeing this kind of performance is one of the highlights of a GT? Just last year there was a Giro stage that featured an unreal descent by I can't remember who, Nibali? I don't recall anyone at the time arguing that maybe descents like that were too dangerous. We were all too busy expressing our admiration of the performance. As sports fans we get off on watching someone flirt with disaster.

And it isn't just descents that are potentially dangerous. Look at what happened to poor Saul Raisin, who is very lucky to be alive today. Yes, it can happen any time, anywhere.

Like everyone else here, I don't have any answers, nor anything reasurring to say to WW's family and friends. Questions about upcoming stages aside, I don't think his death is one that can lead to reforms that might save lives in the future. For those of us not close to him personally, it's mostly just a reminder that the sport is dangerous. Not so dangerous that any rider before a race worries about surviving, but enough so that once in a while something seemingly profoundly unfair and senseless happens. I think it's the price the sport has to pay to maintain its reputation as something that only exceptional individuals can excel at it.

 

[RedheadDane]

What about todays stage?

The least they could do is to neuralize it as well as tomorrows stage.

This is unfortunate for todays winners but I think you shouldn't have any "winners" on a day like this.

They cancelled the medal ceremony. As for neutralizing today's stage, I only think the riders were told after the finish...

 

[Benotti69]

I dont think the Giro organisers should alter the course. I think the riders should decide whether to race or tour what they consider dangerous sections of the course. It is the riders who take the risks and they should nuetralise those risks, not wait for others to do it for them.

I think when the details of Wouter Weylandt's crash come out, ie what exactly was the cause of the crash that took his life then we can try and understand things a little bit better before starting to evaluate and eliminate those risks. It might require better design of helmets for instance.

Track racing would not appear life threatening, but anyone care to remember the splinter through the leg of Azizulhasni Awang at the manchester velodrome. If that was a bit higher in the thigh and severed the major artery he would have had minutes to live. Now do we ban track cycling if the worst had happened?

Nuetralise tomorrows stage in memory of Wouter Weylandts with every rider wearing his number. All tomorrows prize money to his wife and anything else that will honour his memory for the rest of this edition of the Giro.

 

[theswordsman]

How many times did we all as cyclist had those close calls. Falling in front of cars, over the road barriers and risking our lives for reasons others could not understand.
Sometimes not even for a win, but just to finish a race, for a thrill of life, joy of pure exhaustion, that special sensation we get while riding and when we complete something that is far beyond what we though was within our limits. We would just get up, if not harmed, and laugh if off. Get on, and continue till the end. We get used to it. Its a price we pay for the thing we do.

With its specific dangers, unique in modern times, cycling is far more than a sport. Its the way of life. Take it just as a job and you will have a miserable life. Take it as a life and you could complete yourself as an individual.

Hope Wouter did the later.

Sad moment, beyond any words. I hope he didn't suffer to much...



ps. If someone thinks this is unappropriated, please delete it.

Well said. Thank you for that

 

[Descender]

They will neutralise the stage and get rid of the Crostis I think.

 

[Parrulo]

I know it's not really on topic, but I want to keep the Memorial thread for memorial only,

But what a terrible, disrespectful picture on http://www.gazzetta.it homepage

indeed that photo is a bit too "graphic" for the front page of a newspaper.

While I agree that the issue of the Crostis descent SHOULD be independent of what happened today, we should acknowledge this is a reminder that the sport is inherently dangerous no matter the course. Raising the danger level above the normal thresholds is not wise, and now (or rather, in a few days, when everybody can look at this with a minimum of perspective) they should stop to think if the Crostis descent is acceptable or not, because maybe when they designed the course they had forgotten how dangerous this sport is (fatal accidents, after all, are fortunately not very common).

well we also have to take in the race situation by the time they hit the crostis, at the top there will be at most a handful of race leaders who can go slowly go down hill and be very careful. the major problem imo is the people that were left behind and have some sort of GC hope. well those people will have to think about safety first but its their choice to risk it. they should remove the time limits for that stage so the big groups left behind with no GC interest can go down really slowly and avoid any trouble.

also having nets on all the corners behind it hard or not (but it looks like that is already being made. other then that its a descent like many other. actually i would dare to say safer because no1 will take a risk there while in many other descents the peloton isn't worried and does take them. remember frank schleck on the tour de suisse? john lee augustyin in le tour de france?

I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

[to all:]

Just because someone is quicker with their ability to reflect on wider implications, doesn't mean they are less sorry or sad to see it happen, care less about the people that are affected, think that the race is more important, or are out of line by looking at wider implications.

If people find that hard to deal with, maybe it is wiser to take some time to step back from this thread, rather than target people who react differently (not the same as inappropriate btw).

Let's not take today's death as a reason to take swipes at each other. It isn't fair, respectful. or appropriate, to anyone.

Let's not make this a competition in appropriate grieving/reflecting/responding.

very well said

 

[jsem94]

I dont think the Giro organisers should alter the course. I think the riders should decide whether to race or tour what they consider dangerous sections of the course. It is the riders who take the risks and they should nuetralise those risks, not wait for others to do it for them.

I think when the details of Wouter Weylandt's crash come out, ie what exactly was the cause of the crash that took his life then we can try and understand things a little bit better before starting to evaluate and eliminate those risks. It might require better design of helmets for instance.

Track racing would not appear life threatening, but anyone care to remember the splinter through the leg of Azizulhasni Awang at the manchester velodrome. If that was a bit higher in the thigh and severed the major artery he would have had minutes to live. Now do we ban track cycling if the worst had happened?

Nuetralise tomorrows stage in memory of Wouter Weylandts with every rider wearing his number. All tomorrows prize money to his wife and anything else that will honour his memory for the rest of this edition of the Giro.

+1

Agreed with everything you said.

 

[theswordsman]

thats stupid. he had a crash on a descent that wasn't even dangerous. besides on the crostis there will be small groups of riders going downhill very carefully so i don't see a problem in it. here the peloton was raging downhill. thats completely different. the giro should go on simple as that and i will still enjoy it. i am sad wouter died but it won't change my life or the way i see cycling. we all know its dangerous. . .

now you can go ahead calling a bad person and claiming you are much better people then me but at least i am not an hypocrite

I'm totally not arguing with anyone today, but saw this earlier. At least some riders were told in team meetings this morning that the descent was dangerous.

Dani Moreno Navarro: "The port was dangerous"

The Spanish Dani Moreno (Katusha) and Dani Navarro (Saxo Bank) met the news of the extreme seriousness of the fall of the Belgian Wouter Weylandt on the line, where both agreed that they knew that the Passo del Bocco "was a dangerous port" .
"I did not know anything, I just learned, was involved in the race, including dangerous curves and then everything went very quickly," said Moreno.
For his part, Dani Navarro was surprised by a story "that is the last thing you expect"
"I hope nothing happens. The descent was dangerous. In the meeting this morning and told us that the decline was dangerous, it is unfortunate for him and for all," said teammate Alberto Contador in the Saxo Bank.

http://www.sport.es/es/noticias/cic...lece-tras-sufrir-una-grave-caida/999887.shtml

 

[JohnNordin]

Some thoughts.

I do hope the neutralize the next stage and I like the idea of having Leopard as a team finish in front. Hope they do that. Any word on armbands, or patches?

I too love the excitement and, yes, a little of the danger of the sport, but that is only true to the point of skinned knees and bent bikes. When the danger includes the chance of death, I'm not enjoying any of that. I've always thought the descents needed more safety and I hope there is some careful examination of the upcoming stages to see just how much danger everyone is in.

The chancy nature of the sport, the cars and motor bikes weaving in and out, the spectators crowding the road - yes, that is much of what makes the sport special. But, again, I only enjoy that when the risk to the riders is that they don't finish, or they get a bit of road rash. I don't enjoy watching people risk their lives for my fun.

I don't know how I can watch a mountain descent now.

 

[Escarabajo]

indeed that photo is a bit too "graphic" for the front page of a newspaper.



well we also have to take in the race situation by the time they hit the crostis, at the top there will be at most a handful of race leaders who can go slowly go down hill and be very careful. the major problem imo is the people that were left behind and have some sort of GC hope. well those people will have to think about safety first but its their choice to risk it. they should remove the time limits for that stage so the big groups left behind with no GC interest can go down really slowly and avoid any trouble.

also having nets on all the corners behind it hard or not (but it looks like that is already being made. other then that its a descent like many other. actually i would dare to say safer because no1 will take a risk there while in many other descents the peloton isn't worried and does take them. remember frank schleck on the tour de suisse? john lee augustyin in le tour de france?



very well said

This is my fear. The CG contenders that are left behind. These are relatively young athletes that don't think about the danger of the roads sometimes. So this might be the case where the organization might help.

As exited as I was to have the Crostis gradients on this Giro's edition, that will never offset the danger of an accident on the descent. Even if the fall of Weilandt was not related to the danger of the roads, the Crostis descent by itself, with all gear and safety equipment in place, still looks very dangerous.

 

[PedalCastro]

Like another few of the posters I feel distant from the race now. It means nothing to me anymore who wins or loses, if Contador or Nibali wins, if there are some great battles on the climbs. No matter what happens in the remainder of this race I will not be able to watch it without getting that awful sinking feeling as when I saw the crash and Harmon's reaction. Giro 2011, for me, is tarnished beyond repair.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Today's result will stand: a race raced.

One presumes that tomorrow, the will follow the historical precedence.
Several minutes silence on the start and a line abreast procession to the finish.
LEOPARD riders to cross in unison, in front of the peloton.

After which, the team has the two options already outlined.

A cloud of emotion will hang over this Giro, throughout, but the racing will begin again on Wednesday, as it must.

I don't think now is the time to objectively discuss potential course changes.

 

[bigloco]

I can truly truly understand the team dropping out and maybe that's the honorable thing to do, but if it were me crossing over to the great beyond, I would want my team mates to carry on and fight every day. To me that would be the greater honor.

just my 2c.

 

[gttim!]

If bike races are going to neutralize all the dangerous parts of a bike race, they should probably start with the sprints. Mass chaos! They should probably make all races flat with a mountain finish. Any race with a round about or traffic island should be rerouted or cancelled. Cobble stones? No! Bad weather? Stop the race. All 3 weeks stage races should be cancelled- they are so hard and force the riders to dope.

I hate that the guy died. Bike racing is dangerous. So is boxing. So is MMA. So is horse racing. So is football. Part of bike racing is finishing. So many downhills have dangerous spots on them. But the bikes come with brakes. It is the bike racers job to get down the hill safely. I think the Giro is the best grand tour because of the route. It has always been a better race to me than the Tour. I would hate to see it ruined in an effort to make it "safe."

 

[Ferminal]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/05/news/weylandt’s-death-leaves-giro-in-state-of-shock_172031

"Zomegnan is scheduled to give a press conference at 7:30 p.m. local time."

20mins from now, might have some answers on what will happen tomorrow.

 

[spalco]

Some of us tend to think that a person's death is a bit more important than a bike race.

Of course it is, but how would Weylandt's memory be honoured by stopping the race? Weylandt's death is terrible, but it could have happened in any race (or even outside the race on anybody's daily commute). If something had happened that indicated the Giro is not taking the safety of the riders seriously maybe they should stop, but as far as I could see it was a freak accident that was not preventable by any reasonable means.

 

[jens_attacks]

Today's result will stand: a race raced.

One presumes that tomorrow, the will follow the historical precedence.
Several minutes silence on the start and a line abreast procession to the finish.
LEOPARD riders to cross in unison, in front of the peloton.

After which, the team has the two options already outlined.

A cloud of emotion will hang over this Giro, throughout, but the racing will begin again on Wednesday, as it must.

I don't think now is the time to objectively discuss potential course changes.

this......

 

[Arnout]

If bike races are going to neutralize all the dangerous parts of a bike race, they should probably start with the sprints. Mass chaos! They should probably make all races flat with a mountain finish. Any race with a round about or traffic island should be rerouted or cancelled. Cobble stones? No! Bad weather? Stop the race. All 3 weeks stage races should be cancelled- they are so hard and force the riders to dope.

I hate that the guy died. Bike racing is dangerous. So is boxing. So is MMA. So is horse racing. So is football. Part of bike racing is finishing. So many downhills have dangerous spots on them. But the bikes come with brakes. It is the bike racers job to get down the hill safely. I think the Giro is the best grand tour because of the route. It has always been a better race to me than the Tour. I would hate to see it ruined in an effort to make it "safe."

Yeah, and remember the accident happened on a not particularly dangerous place. It is, terribly enough, part of life and part of bike racing. We all know that, and once in a while we are reminded of it in a brutal way.

But personally, I can't see the link between the dangerous descent to come and this accident. Maybe they should scrap it, but I wasn't overjoyed with that descent to start with. I don't however think they should scrap it because of this accident, that serves no purpose. They might scrap it to avoid the situation of a, frankly, risky descent in a Giro in which someone died, which is controversial. I can understand that.

Also, the rider who wins this Giro will win it rightfully (unless you want to argue clinic issues, but that's besides the point). I don't see how a win is spoiled by this tragic event. Miguel Indurain also won 5 Tours, and not 4 because of Casartelli... The things are unrelated.

 

[Lanark]

If the Crostis was safe enough when they designed the course, it still is today. If it would be two or three days from now, I could see them cancelling a descent, but although this may sound incredibly harsh, two weeks from now Wouter's terrible accident will be on the back of people's mind during the race.

The security of the riders is incredibly important, but this was a 'regular' high speed descent, unless you want to ban all descents you can't rule out all risks (procycling would still be really dangerous). Of course its possible that the Crostis descent is too dangerous, I wouldn't mind if the Giro-organisers look at it again, but I would't base much on a photo taken at an angle, that's possibly not even from the descent itself.

 

[VeloCity]

If bike races are going to neutralize all the dangerous parts of a bike race, they should probably start with the sprints. Mass chaos! They should probably make all races flat with a mountain finish. Any race with a round about or traffic island should be rerouted or cancelled. Cobble stones? No! Bad weather? Stop the race. All 3 weeks stage races should be cancelled- they are so hard and force the riders to dope.

I hate that the guy died. Bike racing is dangerous. So is boxing. So is MMA. So is horse racing. So is football. Part of bike racing is finishing. So many downhills have dangerous spots on them. But the bikes come with brakes. It is the bike racers job to get down the hill safely. I think the Giro is the best grand tour because of the route. It has always been a better race to me than the Tour. I would hate to see it ruined in an effort to make it "safe."

There's a difference between cycling being an inherently dangerous sport and organizers going out of their way to increase the risk of horrible accidents unnecessarily, just to increase the spectacle.

Not that I have any faith in the UCI, but isn't it about time that they instituted some basic safety requirements from race organizers re: the routes that they choose? In terms of road quality, descents, etc. If riders are required to wear helmets, maybe organizers should be required to meet some safety standards as well. Of course it wouldn't mean the end of accidents - they can happen at any time, any place, and they can have horrific consequences. But at least try to minimize the risks.

I love watching cycling but I don't really like watching riders die.

 

[cineteq]

Read this in Velonews.
"Race officials later said his left pedal got stuck in a wall at the side of the road, forcing Weylandt to tumble around 20 meters to the ground below."

 

[Publicus]

Today's result will stand: a race raced.

One presumes that tomorrow, the will follow the historical precedence.
Several minutes silence on the start and a line abreast procession to the finish.
LEOPARD riders to cross in unison, in front of the peloton.

After which, the team has the two options already outlined.

A cloud of emotion will hang over this Giro, throughout, but the racing will begin again on Wednesday, as it must.

I don't think now is the time to objectively discuss potential course changes.

Agree with this 100%.

 

[Tuarts]

What are you talking about? Nobody called you a bad person.
Oh, never mind. To the ignore list you go.

This is the Crostis descent. I don't see the benefit to cycling of including this.

Not that I am a naysayer, I too believe they should remove the climb but that photo is a bit deceptive, its tilted on an angle.