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AC needs a team?

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Jan 31, 2010
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He needs a team for sure, and lets see Astana is strong enough to control a race like the TdF for likely more than a week (since I honestly believe he'll wait to take the jersey until the pyrenees). I'd like to see some balls from the other teams and do something similiar to the Telecom squad up the porte de pailhères. LA was isolated there and that could really hurt AC when attacks start to come then. Ofcourse if there isn't an Ullrich like tactician who goes after his own teammate :p.
 

Prodigy

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Feb 22, 2010
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ErmOkk said:
He needs a team for sure, and lets see Astana is strong enough to control a race like the TdF for likely more than a week (since I honestly believe he'll wait to take the jersey until the pyrenees). I'd like to see some balls from the other teams and do something similiar to the Telecom squad up the porte de pailhères. LA was isolated there and that could really hurt AC when attacks start to come then. Ofcourse if there isn't an Ullrich like tactician who goes after his own teammate :p.

Of course it's better for him to have a team then not a team, but I'm saying for this rider, even if he did not have one, it's unlikely to make a difference given he is mentally very tough and far above the others in climbing talent. He's not a sprinter that needs a lead out. All he has to do is win a couple of mountain stages on his own, like last year, and win or get close to the TT. Job done.
 
Sep 2, 2009
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He needs a team no question. don't underestimate the effort done by teamates on the flats. trying to keep their team leader in position, carry water bottles etc.
 

Prodigy

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Feb 22, 2010
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Bike Boy said:
He needs a team no question. don't underestimate the effort done by teamates on the flats. trying to keep their team leader in position, carry water bottles etc.

You got me on the water bottles. I don't think there is any other area where Contador would struggle without a team though. On the flat he can just tail other teams, and on the mountains there are always other riders in break aways he can work with before he needs to attack. You see this happening with riders all the time. So much of it is psychological.
 
Prodigy said:
You got me on the water bottles. I don't think there is any other area where Contador would struggle without a team though. On the flat he can just tail other teams, and on the mountains there are always other riders in break aways he can work with before he needs to attack. You see this happening with riders all the time. So much of it is psychological.

On the flat he can just tail other teams

Oh good lord! You are just playing dumb, nobody could actually be this dumb and know how to work a computer, especially with the getting new IP adresses and stuff that you do. Please stop.
 
Mar 12, 2009
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Hugh Januss said:
Oh good lord! You are just playing dumb, nobody could actually be this dumb and know how to work a computer, especially with the getting new IP adresses and stuff that you do. Please stop.


Seriously. We all know who this is. How he/she pops back constantly with a new handle is not amusing, do something CN forum crew.
 

Prodigy

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Feb 22, 2010
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Hugh Januss said:
Oh good lord! You are just playing dumb, nobody could actually be this dumb and know how to work a computer, especially with the getting new IP adresses and stuff that you do. Please stop.

Ignoring your insults, can you tell me how Contador would have suffered without his team last year?
 
Sep 2, 2009
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Prodigy said:
You got me on the water bottles. I don't think there is any other area where Contador would struggle without a team though. On the flat he can just tail other teams, and on the mountains there are always other riders in break aways he can work with before he needs to attack. You see this happening with riders all the time. So much of it is psychological.

Yeah it's just about the water bottles. brilliant post....
If contador ends up chassing dangerous breakaways on the flats, he will easily do the same job as 8 strong guys and still be fit for the mountains and TT. Comon that's not even a real challenge.
He would be vulnerable to all kinds of tactical set ups. Be real for second.
 

Prodigy

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Feb 22, 2010
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Still no takers to tell me how AC would have lost last year without Astana? (excluding obvious things like the TTT and water bottles)
 
Jan 19, 2010
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Prodigy said:
Still no takers to tell me how AC would have lost last year without Astana? (excluding obvious things like the TTT and water bottles)

Last year when the echelons formed, he couldn't get across by himself. This year it will be even more interesting if a split occurs on the cobbles with most of the Shack in front and AC by himself behind. Surely, he is strong enough not to lose a couple of minutes there and will pull it back all by himself (remember we are talking about AC doing it without a team).

That is where he will lose it this year without a good team.
 
AC will still need a team! It is physically impossible to win any one day race let alone a GT without one.

I still can't believe the amount of flack that Astana is getting as a team though. Has everyone forgotten what David de la Fuente is capable of? I know he didn't really get to ride the last few seasons courtesy of certain Saunier Duval riders, but the guy is one of the best climbers in the world when he's on song. If he continues to ride for AC like he did at Algave then look out! If Pereiro and Noval also come to the party then look out when the road turns upwards.

As for riders who can work on the flats, Allan Davis is someone who can do a very good job guiding Astana on the flat and intermediate stages of big races and Astana has no shortage of riders willing to make a name for themselves working for AC.
 
Jul 27, 2009
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Prodigy said:
Still no takers to tell me how AC would have lost last year without Astana? (excluding obvious things like the TTT and water bottles)

A single rider, especially one who is marked as much as Contador, would probably have to get in every break. If a break with most, if not all, teams gets away and Contador isn't in it, he is cooked unless other GC contenders are missing or it is a mountain stage.

He cannot ride against the entire peloton and hope to ride coattails on any team that needs to work on a particular stage.

I don't think this scenario unfolded last year, so it may not be a direct answer to your question. I remember one of the early Tour de Trump races where a Russian teenager (Bobrik??) was leading until, on the last stage, a break went away with all the big teams in it. His team couldn't close the gap and nobody else had any incentive to chase. He would up losing 20+ minutes.
 
42x16ss said:
AC will still need a team! It is physically impossible to win any one day race let alone a GT without one.

I still can't believe the amount of flack that Astana is getting as a team though. Has everyone forgotten what David de la Fuente is capable of? I know he didn't really get to ride the last few seasons courtesy of certain Saunier Duval riders, but the guy is one of the best climbers in the world when he's on song. If he continues to ride for AC like he did at Algave then look out! If Pereiro and Noval also come to the party then look out when the road turns upwards.

As for riders who can work on the flats, Allan Davis is someone who can do a very good job guiding Astana on the flat and intermediate stages of big races and Astana has no shortage of riders willing to make a name for themselves working for AC.

I think that's the point some of us have been trying to make. This team may have been thrown together at the last minute, but they have some nice pieces--De la Fuente being one of them. Plus I think they have a chip on their shoulders to prove that they aren't a team of misfits. We'll see how they do at Paris-Nice which I think is going to be a real battle between Astana and CdE.

Btw, I know it's early, but does anyone know if there will be live streaming of Paris-Nice?
 

flicker

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Aug 17, 2009
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He needs a team yes. obvious. However I do feel that Contador could lo
se on the cobbles 7 minutes to Schleck the 2nd best rider and still win the tour. Contador is just that much better.
 
Feb 14, 2010
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42x16ss said:
AC will still need a team! It is physically impossible to win any one day race let alone a GT without one.

I still can't believe the amount of flack that Astana is getting as a team though. Has everyone forgotten what David de la Fuente is capable of? I know he didn't really get to ride the last few seasons courtesy of certain Saunier Duval riders, but the guy is one of the best climbers in the world when he's on song. If he continues to ride for AC like he did at Algave then look out! If Pereiro and Noval also come to the party then look out when the road turns upwards.

As for riders who can work on the flats, Allan Davis is someone who can do a very good job guiding Astana on the flat and intermediate stages of big races and Astana has no shortage of riders willing to make a name for themselves working for AC.

I agree with all of that, but I read recently that Allan Davis is scheduled for the Vuelta and not for the TdF. Based on articles and video, if nothing's changed, we should see Pereiro at Paris-Nice along with Hernandez. Noval & Navarro are supposed to do all of Contador's races. Jufre is supposed to ride at Catalunya and Pais Vasco, but that info is from early January. It's gonna be fun to see what they come up with.
 
Squares said:
Last year when the echelons formed, he couldn't get across by himself. This year it will be even more interesting if a split occurs on the cobbles with most of the Shack in front and AC by himself behind. Surely, he is strong enough not to lose a couple of minutes there and will pull it back all by himself (remember we are talking about AC doing it without a team).

That is where he will lose it this year without a good team.

It's 13 km, not much to make a difference if Contador loses a few seconds here. But I can see the orangutans on Versus creaming in their pants if Radio Shack pulls out a good performance over this section.

Versus Commentators-"Lance!!! The master race reader!!! Bruyneel!!! The master tactician!!! How brilliant!!! What a move!!! Contador has a lot to learn!!!

But I will say this-if Radio Shack are banking on taking a few seconds in this particular section to use as a psychological ploy, it will fail miserably when those seconds morph into minutes if Contador rides like he did last year in the mountains.
 
BroDeal said:
Those odds are screwed up. I would give Basso a better chance than Wigans. I would give Evans a better chance than Armstrong. Both Gensink and Valverde should have much better odds. Schleck might even be a little low since there is a not unlikely chance that a racing incident or something could take out Contador just as there is always is with any contender.

If there was any guarantee that he'd be racing I'd be very interested in Valverde at those odds.

(Of course to win he still needs Contador to crash/withdraw)
 
Aug 13, 2009
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BroDeal said:
It is understandable.

Vino is old, but I think he will be a lot stronger than some expect. He quickly got to a high level by the end of the last season.

Does anyone really consider Periero a GT winner? I mean, come on.

If the Tour team is loaded with three Kazakhs other than Vino then that will not be too good for team strength.

As much as Periero's Tour "Win" is a fluke he still has finished top 10 in the Tour 4 times and 11th in the Giro

Assan Bazayev is underrated. The guy is a bull and had a great classic season last year.

Vino, Jesus, David de la Fuente, Benjamín Noval, Daniel Navarro, Maxim Iglinsky, Enrico Gasparotto. IF there are no internal issues that is a seriously strong team
 
Race Radio said:
As much as Periero's Tour "Win" is a fluke he still has finished top 10 in the Tour 4 times and 11th in the Giro

Assan Bazayev is underrated. The guy is a bull and had a great classic season last year.

Vino, Jesus, David de la Fuente, Benjamín Noval, Daniel Navarro, Maxim Iglinsky, Enrico Gasparotto. IF there are no internal issues that is a seriously strong team

+1. No doubt, the Shack are not taking these guys lightly either.
 
Race Radio said:
As much as Periero's Tour "Win" is a fluke he still has finished top 10 in the Tour 4 times and 11th in the Giro

Assan Bazayev is underrated. The guy is a bull and had a great classic season last year.

Vino, Jesus, David de la Fuente, Benjamín Noval, Daniel Navarro, Maxim Iglinsky, Enrico Gasparotto. IF there are no internal issues that is a seriously strong team

I know they (Astana) are high on Andriy Grivko and Tiralongo as well. As you said, if there are no internal issues and no injuries, this will be a very strong team come July.
 
Publicus said:
I know they (Astana) are high on Andriy Grivko and Tiralongo as well. As you said, if there are no internal issues and no injuries, this will be a very strong team come July.

That was what I was trying to say in one of my posts that Trolly Trollsmith tried to misinterpret. Astana will have enough strong riders to choose from, to ensure that they come to the tour start with enough horsepower to support AC.