AC needs a team?

[Lanceisking]

In my opinion Contador will struggle without the guidance of Bruyneel and the strength of last year's Astana squad.

Come July the shack will be a force to be reckoned with.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Yeah, it will be had to slow down, or not attack, without Bruyneel coming down his earpiece.
I wonder what you will be calling yourself, on here, come July?

 

[step23]

AC needs a team. Experience of Paris-Nice 2009 can prove that. I think it was stage 3 when he was pulling alone (trying to catch Rabo's break) with only David Mancoutie helping . Stage 7 was also a big challenge, which he was not ready to face alone.

 

[cyclopeon]

AC needs a team. Experience of Paris-Nice 2009 can prove that. I think it was stage 3 when he was pulling alone (trying to catch Rabo's break) with only David Mancoutie helping . Stage 7 was also a big challenge, which he was not ready to face alone.

JB's Astana selection for Paris-Nice 2009 was less than stellar so I suspect there was more "testing" going on than JB or Contador were admitting to. But maybe that is your point.

Stage 3, Contador bridging up alone: as I recall, that was a deliberate decision to save the team for another day, and Contador took advantage of a small climb to make up the time to the next echelon up the road and try to minimize his time-loss.

A lot has been written about Stage 7, and mostly treats it in isolation, ignoring the effort he put into his Stage 6 win. There, he attacked quite a bit earlier than planned on the final mountain (per his blog). Testing his limits. So maybe he didn't recover as completely as he hoped, in addition to everything else that happened the next day. I also think that during the selection of Stage 7 he responded to attacks that he didn't have to respond to because, again, he wanted to see just what he was capable of. And found out!

Nor should any discussion of Stage 7 leave out or ignore his response to it, the long charge off the front in Stage 8 which came so close to being caught on each downhill but held on with a few other riders to sprint for the stage win.

Didn't win the GC, but was one of the prime movers of that whole tour, fought hard and often, and made it exciting to watch.

Of course he needs a team, but he's already got a better one than he had a year ago.

 

[step23]

Of course he needs a team, but he's already got a better one than he had a year ago.

Agree with you on that, especially in terms of motivation. However, I still wonder who will be helping him on cobbles.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Agree with you on that, especially in terms of motivation. However, I still wonder who will be helping him on cobbles.

Much has been made of these few kms of cobbles.
Who amongst Shack's GT "experts" have the relevant experience of riding pave?
Eki and Hincapie gone, to be replaced by guys like Leipheimer and Horner, who have enough problems staying upright on flat road surfaces.

It won't be the old men putting the hammer down, but the Northern classics boys.
Contador needs to stay alert, towards the front and take any strong wheel available. Armstrong may well have to make do with Popovych.

 

[Cerberus]

Much has been made of these few kms of cobbles.
Who amongst Shack's GT "experts" have the relevant experience of riding pave?
Eki and Hincapie gone, to be replaced by guys like Leipheimer and Horner, who have enough problems staying upright on flat road surfaces.

It won't be the old men putting the hammer down, but the Northern classics boys.
Contador needs to stay alert, towards the front and take any strong wheel available. Armstrong may well have to make do with Popovych.

Perhaps Saxo Bank will give him a hand (or wheel). If I was Andy I'd want to have Lance in the front end of any split I could cause on the cobbles and Contador in the second group. That way Radioshack would work for lengthening the gap rather than closing it. Actually If I was Andy I'd want everyone except Contador in the front end, since the only one he's likely to need extra time on is Contador and the more help he can get on taking that time the better.

 

[theswordsman]

Agree with you on that, especially in terms of motivation. However, I still wonder who will be helping him on cobbles.

Back in Pisa training camp he said Zeits would be key on the pave. But in an interview I read from Noval, who, along with Navarro, is riding all of Contador's races, he talked about going to train on the cobbles and learn the route and things. I'm sure that Alberto and key teammates will be prepared.

I imagine it will make the training more interesting compared to just duplicating last year. They have to go somewhere different and learn something new, maybe test out tires and wheels, practice their bike handling in a different situation, while experiencing a new culture.

 

[kurtinsc]

Much has been made of these few kms of cobbles.
Who amongst Shack's GT "experts" have the relevant experience of riding pave?
Eki and Hincapie gone, to be replaced by guys like Leipheimer and Horner, who have enough problems staying upright on flat road surfaces.

It won't be the old men putting the hammer down, but the Northern classics boys.
Contador needs to stay alert, towards the front and take any strong wheel available. Armstrong may well have to make do with Popovych.

Lance has finished in the top 30 at Flanders a couple times before (1996, 2005). He's no cobbled expert, but he's competent on his own.

RS won't be able to force the pace on the cobbles in the tour... but he's really hoping some other team does. If so, he can hold on reasonbly well to a tough pace on the cobbles. He's hoping Contador (and maybe Andy) can't.

 

[Cerberus]

Lance has finished in the top 30 at Flanders a couple times before (1996, 2005). He's no cobbled expert, but he's competent on his own.

RS won't be able to force the pace on the cobbles in the tour... but he's really hoping some other team does. If so, he can hold on reasonbly well to a tough pace on the cobbles. He's hoping Contador (and maybe Andy) can't.

Andy might not be very good on cobbles by himself, but he probably has the best team for cobbles of any GC contender. Possibly the best team for the cobbles period.

 

[kurtinsc]

Andy might not be very good on cobbles by himself, but he probably has the best team for cobbles of any GC contender. Possibly the best team for the cobbles period.

That was the reason for the "maybe".

Normally cobbled races are all about cobbled riders. It's not about protecting a GC guy over the cobbles. I'll be honest... I'm not sure how that works. Can a strong cobbled team help a GC guy over the pave... or is it more about your personal ability to handle the rough road?

Are there other smaller stage races where teams have to pull a climber over a 10km+ cobbled section?

 

[Publicus]

That was the reason for the "maybe".

Normally cobbled races are all about cobbled riders. It's not about protecting a GC guy over the cobbles. I'll be honest... I'm not sure how that works. Can a strong cobbled team help a GC guy over the pave... or is it more about your personal ability to handle the rough road?

Are there other smaller stage races where teams have to pull a climber over a 10km+ cobbled section?

Frankly I think the benefit is that a good cobbles guy can set the right path/line through the cobbles. As far as Armstrong is concerned, I'm not sold that Radio Shack, as a team, is going to be good on the cobbles (certainly not as good as the 2004 USPS Tour squad). Same goes for Astana. So many of the guys they will likely bring to the Tour will not be the best guys on the cobbles--because you have to plan for 21 stages, not just one. It's not just Armstrong and Contador that we should be thinking about, but Levi, Horner, De la Fuente, Pereiro, etc. How those guys handle the cobbles (and frankly the jostling for position just before the cobbles) is really the unspoken question.

If I'm AC, I'm looking to curry favor with Quick Step as much as possible to have their assistance on Stage 3.

 

[Cerberus]

That was the reason for the "maybe".

Normally cobbled races are all about cobbled riders. It's not about protecting a GC guy over the cobbles. I'll be honest... I'm not sure how that works. Can a strong cobbled team help a GC guy over the pave... or is it more about your personal ability to handle the rough road?

Are there other smaller stage races where teams have to pull a climber over a 10km+ cobbled section?

That's a good question, but I'm afraid I don't know the answer. Anyone? perhaps Milan-Sanremo is a relevant example. You don't have to pull climbers over the cobbles, but you have to pull sprinters. Of cause many of the sprinters are also good on cobbles, but I don't think Cavendish is that good (on cobbles). I guess the question is how much he was helped or if he's just better than I thought?

Of cause a lot of people seem to think the cobbles in the Tour just aren't bad enough to force a selection.

 

[BYOP88]

Well even if you had the best cobbled riders, I don't think that will give the GC leader any more "luck" in staying upright on the cobbles, if you look at Paris Roubaix even good cobble riders crash on the pavé.

 

[Cerberus]

Well even if you had the best cobbled riders, I don't think that will give the GC leader any more "luck" in staying upright on the cobbles, if you look at Paris Roubaix even good cobble riders crash on the pavé.

Yeah, but the Tour cobbles aren't exactly Paris-Roubaix.

 

[BYOP88]

Yeah, but the Tour cobbles aren't exactly Paris-Roubaix.

Granted but I'd guess the cobbles they go over in the Tour will be more like Paris-Roubaix than the Ronde Van Vlaanderen type. But since I haven't gone to check them out I may well be wrong.

 

[step23]

Frankly I think the benefit is that a good cobbles guy can set the right path/line through the cobbles. As far as Armstrong is concerned, I'm not sold that Radio Shack, as a team, is going to be good on the cobbles (certainly not as good as the 2004 USPS Tour squad). Same goes for Astana. So many of the guys they will likely bring to the Tour will not be the best guys on the cobbles--because you have to plan for 21 stages, not just one. It's not just Armstrong and Contador that we should be thinking about, but Levi, Horner, De la Fuente, Pereiro, etc. How those guys handle the cobbles (and frankly the jostling for position just before the cobbles) is really the unspoken question.

If I'm AC, I'm looking to curry favor with Quick Step as much as possible to have their assistance on Stage 3.

True. IMO This stage will be of 50% tactics, 40% pave riding skills and 10% luck. Some of Astana guys are going to Classics, I think Martinelly will make his choice based on their results.
p.s. Just another point to the neibouring thread about Eddy Merckx: he wouldn't probably care much about the pave.

 

[KazakhNeRider]

probably - Max Gourov will be one for cobbles! Thanks to Paolo for the great translation from Russian.
http://astanafans.com/maxim-gourov-a-fighting-spirit.html