AFLD is out at the TdF

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Aug 13, 2009
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turnkey303 said:
It's about damn time those clowns got run out now if someone would just shut them down that would be even better.

When they supposedly found Floyd positive their lab work was worse than untrained monkeys, we did better lab work in my junior high school science classes compared to the crap they railroaded Landis with.

During the testing of his B sample Floyd's expert witness, who helped design the Agilent testing machine, had to show the lab employees that the damn machine wasn't even set up correctly and still had shipping parts bolted to it. If I recall correctly (and if I don't someone will correct me I'm sure) the AFLD lab had a "success" rate about 40% higher than all the other WADA accredited labs at reporting testosterone positives. Logically all the other labs should be reporting the same general percentage of positives but no one seemed to want to look into that minor detail even after the lab was shown to be doing the testing with machine installed incorrectly but they railroaded Floyd just because they could knowing full well the system is stacked against the athletes. I'm sure the fact he was an American didn't help his cause with the French either.

Let's not forget that AFLD conveniently leaked details to the Le Quipe newspaper before some athletes, Floyd included, were even notified of their alleged positives. Oh and let's not forget the lab clearly labeled the samples of some French riders during last years Tour which is a major violation of the chain of custody.

So good riddance to AFLD if it's true and let's just go ahead and demolish the building for good measure, I'll be happy to swing the sledgehammer.

Here's a link to an outstanding blog about AFLD and the WADA system in general.

Tell how the machine was screwed up for the IRMS test?

Good thing CAS, and most rational people, do not agree with your conspiracy theories.
 
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Anonymous

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python said:
this is a typical misunderstanding. not your fault.

the designated reported hour(s) don't refer to the 'testing period'. they refer to a period where an athlete says he'll be located and can be found. the testers can show up at a different time during the day a riders has 'slotted'.

i recall pereiro complained recently that they showed up at a different time he designated when he was in a restaurant with his friends. the sample was taken in the restaurants bathroom hours after the slotted time.

The restaurant incident was reported on November 5, 2009. The reporting changes only took effect at the beginning of 2010. It seems to me that designation a single hour period for testing gives the potential doper the info they need to "clean up" for the test. We know that the Grand Tour tests are once a day and we also know how well that system works.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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it seems to me you will only be satisfied with your own opinion... so it seems to me so be it.
 
Jul 14, 2009
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Samples should be taken in a lab or lab trailer by a tech/nurse/doctor who's name is on a list that should be know to all riders and teams. Person should have an ID issued by the UCI. No showers while your DS finds out if the person is legit.Telling anybody your location 24/7 is dumb. If the science is so sound and proven ,a vacation to China or Mexico should have no effect on the outcome. Testing a rider at some non-established place ( bathroom/airport/cafe/beach/private home) is wrong.
 
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Anonymous

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python said:
it seems to me you will only be satisfied with your own opinion... so it seems to me so be it.
Originally Posted by python
this is a typical misunderstanding. not your fault.

"the designated reported hour(s) don't refer to the 'testing period'. they refer to a period where an athlete says he'll be located and can be found. the testers can show up at a different time during the day a riders has 'slotted'.

i recall pereiro complained recently that they showed up at a different time he designated when he was in a restaurant with his friends. the sample was taken in the restaurants bathroom hours after the slotted time."

The restaurant incident was reported on November 5, 2009. The reporting changes only took effect at the beginning of 2010. It seems to me that designation a single hour period for testing gives the potential doper the info they need to "clean up" for the test. We know that the Grand Tour tests are once a day and we also know how well that system works.

Opinions are pretty meaningless here.

It is a FACT that the Pereiro incident took place last year under the old rules and is thus irrelevant. The fact is that the new rules began in 2010.

IF it is a fact that professional cyclists can still be TESTED at any time that is good. Where would one look to learn if that is still the case? You must have a citation, don't you?

The FACT that the riders only have to make their whereabouts known for one hour each day, enabling them to be anywhere doing anything for the other 23 hours seems to undermine the concept of random testing.

I would not be suprised if these kinds of changes are to save money.
 
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Anonymous

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sorry for how confused the above must seem. I didn't get the multiple quotes right.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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you got your facts (and quotes) wrong jeff. and you're confused too.

you ask where does one look? answer: in the primary sources like the wada website. they clearly explain the 1 hour rule was introduced in 2009 not 2010. this means you're misinterpreting the pereiro's incident. this is not an opinion but a fact.

you are also confused because you are misinterpreting an out of completion tests (ooc) with in competition tests. the 1 hour rule concerns with ooc whereas your example in the post #100 (congratulations!) refers to in competition tests - a totally different animal having nothing to do with the 1 hour rule.
 
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Anonymous

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This year's tour looks to be turning into a farce. And with Sycophant 1 & Sycophant 2 doing the commentary, I might have to give it a miss altogether.
 
Jan 10, 2010
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A little late today...

Mellow Velo said:
Turnkey:
It was the UCI who caught Floyd. The AFLD weren't it charge, in 2006.
Phonak leaked Floyd's positive, not L'Equipe.
In 2008, when the AFLD were in charge, no English speaking rider tested positive, just German, Italian and Spanish.

In your original post, you make it sound like you were present, in the lab, at the testing.
Did you witness the testing and are therefore able to compare it to your high school science classes?

I was drinking coffee.

Nope I wasn't at the lab when they tested his B sample but all of the documents for his case are in the public record including but certainly not limited to the many documented chain of custody errors and the testimony of his experts' observations during the testing. When and if you dive into the testimony during his AAA hearing you will also find testimony from the lab techs who did the testing and the actual reports of the results from the incorrectly configured testing machine. That is how I know my junior school science classes did better lab work.

It doesn't really matter who "was in charge" because the lab is the entity responsible for the horrible testing.

In 2008, when the AFLD were in charge, no English speaking rider tested positive, just German, Italian and Spanish.
What's your point?
 
Aug 13, 2009
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turnkey303 said:
I was drinking coffee.

Nope I wasn't at the lab when they tested his B sample but all of the documents for his case are in the public record including but certainly not limited to the many documented chain of custody errors and the testimony of his experts' observations during the testing. When and if you dive into the testimony during his AAA hearing you will also find testimony from the lab techs who did the testing and the actual reports of the results from the incorrectly configured testing machine. That is how I know my junior school science classes did better lab work.

It doesn't really matter who "was in charge" because the lab is the entity responsible for the horrible testing.

What's your point?

You need to read the CAS report, it completely discredits this.

Sorry, the "French Conspiracy" Theory on Landis is a joke. You might want to try the Nazi Frogman or space Alien theory
 
Jan 10, 2010
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Well...

Digger said:
So how did the syntethic testosterone get into the samples?
I'm not sure it did, that's my point about that particular lab having a much higher rate of finding alleged testosterone positives. They were obviously doing a lot of testing with a machine that was not installed and configured correctly to give a reliable result.

Floyd went through the appeals process (twice), including the CAS, with Americans on the board, and was not found to have a case.
Actually Chris Campbell dissented and pointed out the numerous errors of WADA protocol by the lab but the errors of testing and chain of custody were ignored or whitewashed by the other 2 members of the panel.

The bigger picture (for people who have too much time on their hands) is to look through the WADA people and processes because when you do you'll notice that the same names keep popping up. The whole WADA system is so incestuous and full of conflicts of interest it's horrifying and is completely stacked against athletes. It still boggles my mind that no one, at least a sports journalist somewhere, has not looked into the background of the system and people involved. Why did USAC suddenly settle out of court and give Floyd his license back? We may never know for sure because the deal is sealed but the speculation was because Floyd's team could embarrass some people with conflicts of interest in the case and get some traction with his case.

I'm not saying all the dopers are innocent, not in any way shape or form, but I am saying Floyd was railroaded with miserable lab work, prosecuted because USAC could get away with it instead of telling the UCI the case was sketchy to begin with so as to not risk the ire of the UCI.

Spend a few days going through the information on Floyd's case that is public domain and you WILL be horrified.
 
Jan 10, 2010
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Race Radio said:
You need to read the CAS report, it completely discredits this. Sorry, the "French Conspiracy" Theory on Landis is a joke. You might want to try the Nazi Frogman or space Alien theory

I don't think I said conspiracy anywhere but if I did I'll go take it out. I know the CAS discredited that stuff but it was completely self-serving to do that AND they slapped him with an unprecedented $100k fine on top of everything else just stick the knife in and twist it a bit more.

The CAS couldn't possibly legitimately discredit those errors because they were documented! THE CAS simply whitewashed the original findings.

Go to trustbutverify and spend some time reading the documentation, it's a pain in the **** and complex but very enlightening.
 
Jan 10, 2010
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Against

Escarabajo said:
That you are bias[ed].

Who or what? Crappy lab work that deprived a guy of his livelihood for 2+ years? Or me pointing out what the UCI already pointed out?
 
Aug 13, 2009
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turnkey303 said:
I don't think I said conspiracy anywhere but if I did I'll go take it out. I know the CAS discredited that stuff but it was completely self-serving to do that AND they slapped him with an unprecedented $100k fine on top of everything else.

The CAS couldn't possibly legitimately discredit those errors because they were documented! THE CAS simply whitewashed the original findings.

By repeating the false chain of evidence claims you are claiming the samples were deliberately tampered with, this is conspiracy. The only evidence of conspiracy is that Arnie Baker paid a hacker $3,000 to hack the LNDD computers.

The IRMS test proved not only that Landis was doping but it was not a one time thing. CAS showed his case was a joke and a fraud. Arbitrating cycling doping cases is only a small part of what CAS does. To say that they made their ruling because it was "Self Serving" is ridiculous. I suggest you read the CAS report as it is far from self-serving, it is highly detailed and it is hard to not understand that Landis is a doper after reading it.

The $100,000 award is far from unprecedented, in fact it is quite normal for the loser to pay court costs in an arbitration. If you read the CAS decision you will see that Landis did everything possible to insure that the ADA's incurred as much cost as possible. CAS went easy on him, the judgement could have been much higher.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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Race Radio said:
You need to read the CAS report, it completely discredits this.
rr sometimes more than one post form a poster tell a lot. in the case of tk it is obvious he is either trolling or is clueless. i could add alot more but feel it would be a waste and is a prefect opportunity to call it a day.

i suggest you do the same as this territory is offtopic, was travelled too many times and there is nothing one can do to change opinions or the facts in fladis' case. tk is a variant of a poster you're too familiar with.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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turnkey303 said:
Who or what? Crappy lab work that deprived a guy of his livelihood for 2+ years? Or me pointing out what the UCI already pointed out?

Doping is what deprived Landis of his livelihood. Inventing a French conspiracy does not change this.
 
Jan 10, 2010
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python said:
rr sometimes more than one post form a poster tell a lot. in the case of tk it is obvious he is either trolling or is clueless. i could add alot more but feel it would be a waste and is a prefect opportunity to call it a day.

i suggest you do the same as this territory is offtopic, was travelled too many times and there is nothing one can do to change opinions or the facts in fladis' case. tk is a variant of a poster you're too familiar with.

Thanks man I appreciate that cheap shot and everyone posting had to start somewhere, god forbid it's something you feel strongly about.

If you actually go READ the documents in Floyd's case you might actually change your mind on a few things. Education is a wonderful thing.

But until that happens you're right, no one will be changing their minds.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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turnkey303 said:
I missed that, where did he say it?

Landis has admitted to a few friends and training partners. I do not live too far from him and it is fairly common knowledge around here.
 
May 18, 2009
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Race Radio said:
Landis has admitted to a few friends and training partners. I do not live too far from him and it is fairly common knowledge around here.

Maybe FL should read the "documentation", and he will be convinced of his own innocence and stop spreading those rumors about himself. :rolleyes:

Who is this guy turnkey? Sounds like a turbocharged Bill Hue.
 
ChrisE said:
Maybe FL should read the "documentation", and he will be convinced of his own innocence and stop spreading those rumors about himself. :rolleyes:

Who is this guy turnkey? Sounds like a turbocharged Bill Hue.

+1

Sounds exactly like one of the fools that used to hang out on Trust But Never Verify, the website for low bandwidth fanboys and conspiracy nutters. Perhaps even one of the chief propagandists there who was responsible for misleading the masses.
 
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Anonymous

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BroDeal said:
+1

Sounds exactly like one of the fools that used to hang out on Trust But Never Verify, the website for low bandwidth fanboys and conspiracy nutters. Perhaps even one of the chief propagandists there who was responsible for misleading the masses.

You think TK is really Arnie Baker?:)