Albasini racist?

[hrotha]

I am not the racist and never was but I am very ****ed of fact that any kind of anger of "white" people towards people of "different “skin for any reason is call racism, their anger is just anger.

Not any kind of anger of white people, but the kind were racial slurs are used, maybe?

 

[Bye Bye Bicycle]

Anybody else in the UK picture Joan Collins eating a Snickers when you read this?

Yeah, that was my first thought as well.

We wanna smell like you!

 

[ChewbaccaD]

I'm absolutely fascinated. You're a smart guy and you still don't get it.

Let's try again, with a little help this time:




Of course you are "you" when you're angry. I disagree that that's somehow the moment when the "True You" comes out, and when you're not angry you're wearing a mask or something. That's bull****.

I don't believe in a "true you" and a "less than true you." It's "True you" all the time, 24/7, so what was said was born of racism within the person who spoke. He's a real racist. That he may also harbor more beneficial human qualities simultaneously is irrelevant to this discussion. But anger does indeed bring out the self in ways that many times remain hidden because of social mores regarding the propriety of such things.

Like I said, I don't think the guy deserves any punishment regardless of what he said. I want to be able to identify the idiots, so please, let people like him keep talking.

 

[The Principal Sheep]

Using a racial epithet doesn’t make you a racist, it just makes you some who used a racist word. If Albasini did indeed use a racist term then he should be suitably fined/punished for it.

 

[SKSemtex]

Using a racial epithet doesn’t make you a racist, it just makes you some who used a racist word. If Albasini did indeed use a racist term then he should be suitably fined/punished for it.

exactly

10ch

 

[Afrank]

I am not the racist and never was but I am very ****ed of fact that any kind of anger of "white" people towards people of "different “skin for any reason is call racism, their anger is just anger.

No one would blame Albasini for being angry at Reza if he truly wasn't doing enough work in the break. But he deserves every bit of criticism he gets for using a racist term. There is no level of anger that can justify using such a term like the one Albasini used.

 

[cineteq]

Using a racial epithet doesn’t make you a racist, it just makes you some who used a racist word. If Albasini did indeed use a racist term then he should be suitably fined/punished for it.

Totally weak arguments. He's a racist, he's not a kid.

 

[The Principal Sheep]

Totally weak arguments. He's a racist, he's not a kid.

And what is it that I'm arguing for/against? if he used a racist term then he should be punished for it but that does not mean he's racist, also even if he was a child then he should still be punished for it surely?

 

[SKSemtex]

No one would blame Albasini for being angry at Reza if he truly wasn't doing enough work in the break. But he deserves every bit of criticism he gets for using a racist term. There is no level of anger that can justify using such a term like the one Albasini used.

I am not defending Albasini. If he used that "famoust" rasist expresion he should be punished. No exuse for that.

I just refuse to give a label "rasist" on the grounds presented here.

 

[kingjr]

I don't believe in a "true you" and a "less than true you." It's "True you" all the time, 24/7, so what was said was born of racism within the person who spoke. .

Bull**** again. Or maybe you just made up your own definition of racism, until it fits. If that's so, there's no point in arguing.

 

[rhubroma]

And what is it that I'm arguing for/against? if he used a racist term then he should be punished for it but that does not mean he's racist, also even if he was a child then he should still be punished for it surely?

What don't you apologists get? If you use a racist term, you are being racist. Period. It doesn't matter if in the long or short term. By definition racism begins when the dignity of one's person is demeaned by insulting one's skin color or ethnicity, for which there aren't justifications.

As far as punishment goes, obviously riding the Tour de France is a different occupation than an office job, or factory work or school teacher. However, and perhaps Monsieur Albisini should remember how privileged he is, if anyone working in those fields called one of their colleagues or students a "dirty n!gger," it's certain they'd be fired on the spot.

 

[The Principal Sheep]

What don't you apologists get? If you use a racist term, you are being racist. Period. It doesn't matter if in the long or short term. By definition racism begins when the dignity of one's person is demeaned by insulting one's skin color or ethnicity, for which there aren't justifications.

As far as punishment goes, obviously riding the Tour de France is a different occupation than an office job, or factory work or school teacher. However, and perhaps Monsieur Albisini should remember how privileged he is, if anyone working in those fields called one of their colleagues or students a "dirty n!gger," it's certain they'd be fired on the spot.

I disagree, using a racial term can come about through many ways but it does not make a person a racist and to brand someone as a racist when you know nothing about them other than they once used a racial term is extremely ignorant.

I also fail to understand your leniency towards this supposed transgressor, if guilty he should receive more than being ‘reminded how privileged he is’

 

[hrotha]

How do you guys detect racists, because "uses racial slurs in an attempt to cause offense" is pretty high up my list.

 

[kingjr]

How do you guys detect racists, because "uses racial slurs in an attempt to cause offense" is pretty high up my list.

Offending someone because he's black.

 

[hrotha]

Offending someone because he's black.

Then your list will be limited to the card-carrying KKK crew, passing over the vast majority of casual racists.

I don't think that's a particularly useful definition of racism.

 

[kingjr]

I don't think that's a particularly useful definition of racism.

It's the only useful definition IMO.

Then your list will be limited to the card-carrying KKK crew, passing over the vast majority of casual racists.

That doesn't make much sense. Anyone who discriminates another person based on their skin-colour falls into this category. And there are definitely more of those around than only KKK crewmembers.

 

[SeriousSam]

How do you guys detect racists, because "uses racial slurs in an attempt to cause offense" is pretty high up my list.

It's certainly a very strong indicator of someone being a racist. But it's not a sufficient one, unless you define a racist as someone who does that.

But that's clearly wrong. Suppose there's some guy who you could offend a great deal with racial slurs but you could cause even greater offense by insulting his mom. Which insult is more ethically objectionable in a private conversation? If you say the latter, you are now regarding a typical ****** as worse than a racist. (If you say the former, you have some explaining to do because it causes less offense)

No such problem if we reserve the word "racist" for people who have an irrational dislike for other ethnicities. A very strong, though insufficient indicator of which is using racist slurs. Albasini is probably a racist.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Anyone who uses racist slurs to denigrate a black person is a racist. Some of them may be relatively soft, casual or conflicted racists, but they are all racists. No exceptions, but at least the condition is not necessarily permanent. Some racists, particularly the unthinking, casual, kind, develop a sense of human decency over time.

It is always interesting though the number of people who seem to have such strong motivation to find some loophole that would allow people to engage in racist speech and behaviour while avoiding having the tag racist pinned to them. Some people just go around calling work colleagues who annoy them "dirty negroes", it doesn't mean that they are racists! How dare you imply such a thing!

 

[kingjr]

Some people just go around calling work colleagues who annoy them "dirty negroes", it doesn't mean that they are racists! How dare you imply such a thing!

If they do it repeatedly without remorse than they've definitely earned to be labelled racists.

Someone who does it once, realizes his wrongdoing and shows regret doesn't deserve it. IMO.

It is always interesting though the number of people who seem to have such strong motivation to find some loophole that would allow people to engage in racist speech and behaviour while avoiding having the tag racist pinned to them.

It is always interesting though the number of people who are so very eager to take the moral high ground because they feel it makes up for their own shortcomings in life and personality.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

If they do it repeatedly without remorse than they've definitely earned to be labelled racists.

Someone who does it once, realizes his wrongdoing and shows regret doesn't deserve it. IMO.

In the sense that "realising wrongdoing" and "showing regret" represent the person concerned developing a sense of human decency, and thus abandoning their racist behaviour, I agree with you. I do not think that having once said or done something racist should result in someone being branded with the mark of Cain. People change.

It is always interesting though the number of people who are so very eager to take the moral high ground because they feel it makes up for their own shortcomings in life and personality.

I feel quite comfortable taking the moral high ground when talking to people who are keen to let racists engage in racist behaviour without suffering the indignity of being called racists.

 

[SKSemtex]

If they do it repeatedly without remorse than they've definitely earned to be labelled racists.

Someone who does it once, realizes his wrongdoing and shows regret doesn't deserve it. IMO.

It is always interesting though the number of people who are so very eager to take the moral high ground because they feel it makes up for their own shortcomings in life and personality.

I wish to all those moral supersaint antiracists here that small (20 memeber ) family of gipsies moves next to their house, apartament. Good luck with your sainthood.

 

[the delgados]

I was thinking this as I read this thread. If we assume Albasini is a racist based on the comment.....do we care? For example, I am white. I really don't care what any racist thinks about white people. What matters to me is can the person effect my health or my wealth based on their racism. Believe me, in my line of work I have been called every racist name for a white person you could ever think of, and perhaps a few you couldn't. It doesn't bother me because its just words and those people's racism isn't relevant to my life. So does Albasini really have any way to actually bother Reza, other than barking out idiotic words? Does Reza give a damn that Albasini is racist, if he actually is?

I don't know what you do, but perhaps you don't care about about racist invectives because you're in a position of power. If so, you are right-- ill-spoken words don't matter.
I often wonder why white middle class people get all up in arms about stupid words uttered by, say, some dumb rider in a bike race, while ignoring issues such as race-based poverty. I think the real issues are conveniently ignored when we get all uppity about the stupid comments attributed to Albasini.

 

[kingjr]

In the sense that "realising wrongdoing" and "showing regret" represent the person concerned developing a sense of human decency, and thus abandoning their racist behaviour, I agree with you. I do not think that having once said or done something racist should result in someone being branded with the mark of Cain. People change.

I mostly agree with you, I just think you could also use the term "recovering" in place of "developing"

 

[Energy Starr]

I don't know what you do, but perhaps you don't care about about racist invectives because you're in a position of power. If so, you are right-- ill-spoken words don't matter.
I often wonder why white middle class people get all up in arms about stupid words uttered by, say, some dumb rider in a bike race, while ignoring issues such as race-based poverty. I think the real issues are conveniently ignored when we get all uppity about the stupid comments attributed to Albasini.

Yes. So Albasini is a racist.....do we care? I have news for everyone, there are most likely many more racists in the peloton...they just haven't been dumb enough to let us know yet. Can we really punish people for their stupid beliefs. Again, his belief has no effect on Reza, does it? Is Albasini able to keep Reza from getting a job or bettering himself in any way? Is Albasini injuring Reza? Can we really fine, punish, or whatever for hateful speech? We can disassociate. We can tell the sponsor we will no longer use their product or service. What other stupid beliefs or speech can we fine or punish for?

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Yes. So Albasini is a racist.....do we care? I have news for everyone, there are most likely many more racists in the peloton...they just haven't been dumb enough to let us know yet. Can we really punish people for their stupid beliefs. Again, his belief has no effect on Reza, does it?

We cannot punish people for their privately held, stupid, nasty beliefs. However, racially abusing a coworker or a representative of another company yours interacts with would get you in serious trouble in almost any workplace. The issue then is not someone's stupid, nasty, racist, private belief, but the expression of those beliefs in a workplace environment, at which point they are no longer private.