Albasini racist?

[jaylew]

I am not the racist and never was but I am very ****ed of fact that any kind of anger of "white" people towards people of "different “skin for any reason is call racism, their anger is just anger.

This is just bs and this is the kind of statement that really irritates me. I have been in plenty of small disagreements, arguments, and even a couple of flat out fights with people in my lifetime. Only once or maybe twice in those all of those instances has a racist word been uttered and I have certainly never accused anyone of racism for being angry with me. Trust me, it's really not that hard to tell if someone has racist tendencies whether you're in an argument or not.

Using a racial epithet doesn’t make you a racist, it just makes you some who used a racist word. If Albasini did indeed use a racist term then he should be suitably fined/punished for it.

Again, by and large, people who don't have those tendencies don't use those words against others even when upset with them unless the situation is very extreme or maybe if a racist term was used against them first.

It is always interesting though the number of people who seem to have such strong motivation to find some loophole that would allow people to engage in racist speech and behaviour while avoiding having the tag racist pinned to them.

I've noticed this as well.

One think is for sure: the word "******" is a special cattegory. One and only. I do not know any other word so "protected".

If you use this word in any content or any occasion you have to be "racist" even if you are the most tollerant man in the world.

We can call other people fu..ng basards, *** holes, dicks ...... as much as we want and it looks like we are OK. This is rediculous.

Thats certainly not true, at least in the US. Not sure where you're from (I'm guessing Eastern Europe), so it might be different there.

 

[The Principal Sheep]

Again, by and large, people who don't have those tendencies don't use those words against others even when upset with them unless the situation is very extreme or maybe if a racist term was used against them first

There are places and generation of people who could easily use what is now regarded as a racist term without any such intent, it is also very plausible for some to use it solely as a term of absuse without racial intent. Surprises me that so many are confused by the differences between ignorance and racism.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I am not the racist and never was but I am very ****ed of fact that any kind of anger of "white" people towards people of "different “skin for any reason is call racism, their anger is just anger.

I get what you mean, and it is very frustrating when calls of racism are made when there is no racist content. For example, a white man and a black man who don't get on. However, by using "the N word", racist content is introduced to the mix, and deliberately so. We're not talking Larry David forgetting to lock his car, then turning round and locking it just as a black man walks past it on Curb Your Enthusiasm here. When you use that word, you are consciously injecting racist content into the discussion. Albasini, if he did use that word, can not in good faith argue that he does not know that the word is racially loaded, so it is hard for him to argue there is no racist intent, regardless of whether it was borne out of a genuine dislike of another race or just intent to provoke.

Using a racial epithet doesn’t make you a racist, it just makes you some who used a racist word. If Albasini did indeed use a racist term then he should be suitably fined/punished for it.

OK, but if you don't want those dots to be joined, don't make those dots so easy to join.

I wish to all those moral supersaint antiracists here that small (20 memeber ) family of gipsies moves next to their house, apartament. Good luck with your sainthood.

I take it this anger is just anger and you have nothing racially against the Roma people, from what you mentioned in the above bit I quoted?

There are places and generation of people who could easily use what is now regarded as a racist term without any such intent, it is also very plausible for some to use it solely as a term of absuse without racial intent. Surprises me that so many are confused by the differences between ignorance and racism.

Is the péloton one of those places? It would seem to me to be quite unlikely that in a group such as that it would be unlikely that the small handful of black riders would be a-ok with terms of racial abuse. Even if it was done out of ignorance, ignorance of what? He must have known that it is a loaded, racist term, because I refuse to believe that anybody is that stupid. Ignorance of how badly it would reflect on him? Perhaps. But from the context, we're saying that he is saying something deliberately to insult Reza. So his intent is to insult. His chosen method - out of many - of insulting Reza is to use a racist epithet. Which, if you're not a racist, is an absolutely terrible idea and he deserves to be called out for it for thinking that's an acceptable way of insulting somebody. If you are a racist, it's still an absolutely terrible idea, and he deserves to be called out for being a racist.

 

[Jspear]

I haven't really gotten into this situation - seemed smartest But I just want to bounce something off you all. Something about the "N" word: Where I live (in N. VA, USA) There is a ton of diversity in ethnic groups. In my particular neighborhood whites are the minority. "African Americans" and Hispanics make up a large portion of the people. All of my friends call each other "their N...er's," they call me "their N...er." It's just how they role. They use that term when they are mad and when they are happy. They literally use it all the time.

I understand that the word can have bad connotations at times (and probably most definitely in Albasini's case), but If it is such a horrible term why do they use it so much? Why do blacks use it with each other, why do they use it with me (a white bro.) Is it one of those things were they can and no one else can?...I've never known exactly what to think about this word in particular. I hear in the news about people losing their jobs, ect for using this word, and then I think about how flippantly and loosely it's used where I've lived all my life....Doesn't seem to add up. To be clear I think racism is VERY wrong.

 

[jaylew]

There are places and generation of people who could easily use what is now regarded as a racist term without any such intent, it is also very plausible for some to use it solely as a term of absuse without racial intent. Surprises me that so many are confused by the differences between ignorance and racism.

Your post makes no sense. Are you saying this could be a case of ignorance? There might be certain rare exceptions, like an older person in a rural area being ignorant of the meaning or implication of a word but this certainly isn't one of those situations (if he said it).

And I've already addressed your abuse/racist intent argument.

 

[jaylew]

I haven't really gotten into this situation - seemed smartest But I just want to bounce something off you all. Something about the "N" word: Where I live (in N. VA, USA) There is a ton of diversity in ethnic groups. In my particular neighborhood whites are the minority. "African Americans" and Hispanics make up a large portion of the people. All of my friends call each other "their N...er's," they call me "their N...er." It's just how they role. They use that term when they are mad and when they are happy. They literally use it all the time.

I understand that the word can have bad connotations at times (and probably most definitely in Albasini's case), but If it is such a horrible term why do they use it so much? Why do blacks use it with each other, why do they use it with me (a white bro.) Is it one of those things were they can and no one else can?...I've never known exactly what to think about this word in particular. I hear in the news about people losing their jobs, ect for using this word, and then I think about how flippantly and loosely it's used where I've lived all my life....Doesn't seem to add up. To be clear I think racism is VERY wrong.

Ugh. Have you not participated in the national discussion about this that was going on recently (and for like the hundredth time)? Anyway, this is a discussion for the general forum as is a bunch of this thread.

And to be clear, the "ugh" is not directed at you, just at that particular debate/discussion which I'm frankly tired of and tends to send things in an ugly direction.

 

[krtekolo]

I agree that one phrase doesn't make you a racist. And he shouldn't be banned for saying it once in the heat of an argument. But he says or does anything like this again, there should be severe punishment.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Bull**** again. Or maybe you just made up your own definition of racism, until it fits. If that's so, there's no point in arguing.

So you're an apologist for racists. You have company on this thread. Must make you feel better about yourself...

Seems I was dead on about you from the first post. Thanks for finally getting honest enough for that to be proven.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

It's the only useful definition IMO.



That doesn't make much sense. Anyone who discriminates another person based on their skin-colour falls into this category. And there are definitely more of those around than only KKK crewmembers.

Soooo, using your definition, do you think he would have used a term related to the skin color of a white rider who was p!ssing him off? Because you're an idiot of you think he would have said something along the lines of "you white piece of sh!t"...he might have used the latter, but the "white" part would not have been part of his sentence. Thus, he discriminated because he used skin color to insult someone with that skin color where he would not have done so with a person of a lighter hue...(yea, that fits the definition of discrimination...look it up junior)

Now, dance around like an apologist monkey and make up a way that you didn't just define him as a racist using YOUR criteria...because you did, but you'll never be honest enough to admit it.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Anyone who uses racist slurs to denigrate a black person is a racist. Some of them may be relatively soft, casual or conflicted racists, but they are all racists. No exceptions, but at least the condition is not necessarily permanent. Some racists, particularly the unthinking, casual, kind, develop a sense of human decency over time.

It is always interesting though the number of people who seem to have such strong motivation to find some loophole that would allow people to engage in racist speech and behaviour while avoiding having the tag racist pinned to them. Some people just go around calling work colleagues who annoy them "dirty negroes", it doesn't mean that they are racists! How dare you imply such a thing!

This x 1000

 

[ChewbaccaD]

In the sense that "realising wrongdoing" and "showing regret" represent the person concerned developing a sense of human decency, and thus abandoning their racist behaviour, I agree with you. I do not think that having once said or done something racist should result in someone being branded with the mark of Cain. People change.



I feel quite comfortable taking the moral high ground when talking to people who are keen to let racists engage in racist behaviour without suffering the indignity of being called racists.

Oh yea, that's strong. Thanks!

 

[ChewbaccaD]

I agree that one phrase doesn't make you a racist. And he shouldn't be banned for saying it once in the heat of an argument. But he says or does anything like this again, there should be severe punishment.

No, there shouldn't. He should have the right to be a racist idiot all he wants. We all have prejudices of some sort. Sure some like racial prejudice are more offensive to the majority of society (though you'd have a hard time knowing that with the racist apologists on this thread), but we all have prejudices. I'd rather know who the real idiots are than have them hiding their bullsh!t.

 

[rhubroma]

I disagree, using a racial term can come about through many ways but it does not make a person a racist and to brand someone as a racist when you know nothing about them other than they once used a racial term is extremely ignorant.

I also fail to understand your leniency towards this supposed transgressor, if guilty he should receive more than being ‘reminded how privileged he is’

You don't get it do you? A racial term when used is de facto being racist.

It's not up to me to punish or give clemency to anyone. Mine was just to point out that in identical situations in other contexts the consequences for the Swiss rider could have been much more severe. Such as losing his job.

 

[rhubroma]

I wish to all those moral supersaint antiracists here that small (20 memeber ) family of gipsies moves next to their house, apartament. Good luck with your sainthood.

Calling "moralistic" what is merely civil behavior and a disdain for attacks on basic personal dignity "sainthood," merely evidences your own basenss.

 

[Sciocco]

One think is for sure: the word "******" is a special cattegory. One and only. I do not know any other word so "protected".

If you use this word in any content or any occasion you have to be "racist" even if you are the most tollerant man in the world.

We can call other people fu..ng basards, *** holes, dicks ...... as much as we want and it looks like we are OK. This is rediculous.

Racism should be about discrimination not about words.

Thats certainly not true, at least in the US. Not sure where you're from (I'm guessing Eastern Europe), so it might be different there.

Which part of SKSemtex post are you referring to?

I'm from the Philly area and using the word n***** may as well be worse than a lot of crimes whereas anything else he listed you can say and no one gives a ****.

I often wonder why white middle class people get all up in arms about stupid words uttered by, say, some dumb rider in a bike race, while ignoring issues such as race-based poverty. I think the real issues are conveniently ignored when we get all uppity about the stupid comments attributed to Albasini.

I agree, no reason to care especially if they talked things out.


More on-topic, is there any statement out that definitively states what was specifically said?

How the **** has this thread not been locked/deleted yet? LOL.

 

[Jerkovin]

I haven't really gotten into this situation - seemed smartest But I just want to bounce something off you all. Something about the "N" word: Where I live (in N. VA, USA) There is a ton of diversity in ethnic groups. In my particular neighborhood whites are the minority. "African Americans" and Hispanics make up a large portion of the people. All of my friends call each other "their N...er's," they call me "their N...er." It's just how they role. They use that term when they are mad and when they are happy. They literally use it all the time.

I understand that the word can have bad connotations at times (and probably most definitely in Albasini's case), but If it is such a horrible term why do they use it so much? Why do blacks use it with each other, why do they use it with me (a white bro.) Is it one of those things were they can and no one else can?...I've never known exactly what to think about this word in particular. I hear in the news about people losing their jobs, ect for using this word, and then I think about how flippantly and loosely it's used where I've lived all my life....Doesn't seem to add up. To be clear I think racism is VERY wrong.

The N word was introduced when the majority of black people in the US and caribbean were enslaved by white people. They were treated as sub-human, they were the victims of horrific violence and neglect, they were worth coins, and the n-word was essentially used as a weapon so that black people knew how little they were worth and new who had power over them.

Since slavery was abolished, some black people refuse to use it while others have always tried to reclaim the word -- to flip its meaning and take power over a word used to dehumanize them instead of it just sitting there solely as a weapon for racists whip out whenever they want. White people upset about not being able to use it without being called a racist while black people can, should blame their ancestors.

 

[Jerkovin]

People here seem to think that being a racist = being a card carrying KKK member who lynches black people in their spare time and sits around cursing them when at home.

Racism comes in many shapes and forms, and if you get angry and your first reaction is to make the person know that he's inferior to you, then of course you're a blatant f*cking racist. That doesn't mean that the person is a racist for life and can't apologize, admit what they did and strive not to do it again.

 

[Jspear]

The N word was introduced when the majority of black people in the US and caribbean were enslaved by white people. They were treated as sub-human, they were the victims of horrific violence and neglect, they were worth coins, and the n-word was essentially used as a weapon so that black people knew how little they were worth and new who had power over them.

Since slavery was abolished, some black people refuse to use it while others have always tried to reclaim the word -- to flip its meaning and take power over a word used to dehumanize them instead of it just sitting there solely as a weapon for racists whip out whenever they want. White people upset about not being able to use it without being called a racist while black people can, should blame their ancestors.

I hear you what you are saying. I don't and don't want to use the word. I just think things would be a little more clear and maybe less hypocritical if the word was used in a consistent manner. It's okay or it's not.

 

[Sciocco]

People here seem to think that being a racist = being a card carrying KKK member who lynches black people in their spare time and sits around cursing them when at home.

Racism comes in many shapes and forms, and if you get angry and your first reaction is to make the person know that he's inferior to you, then of course you're a blatant f*cking racist. That doesn't mean that the person is a racist for life and can't apologize, admit what they did and strive not to do it again.

That's not racism. Skin color/ethnicity/etc. have to be involved for it to be racism.

 

[jaylew]

Which part of SKSemtex post are you referring to?

I'm from the Philly area and using the word n***** may as well be worse than a lot of crimes whereas anything else he listed you can say and no one gives a ****.

I agree no one really cares about those other words he listed. I was referring to other racial slurs that you just don't say.

More on-topic, is there any statement out that definitively states what was specifically said?

No, we don't know 100% what was said.

How the **** has this thread not been locked/deleted yet? LOL.

I kind of agree. At this point it should be moved to general at the very least.

 

[Energy Starr]

Why should it be locked or deleted?

 

[Sciocco]

Why should it be locked or deleted?

Well I do not want it to be locked or deleted, but it seems like mods will stop even slightly off-topic posts and this thread should mostly be in general or something.

 

[Angliru]

Ever been in Africa? You´d wonder what people "really" are there then. I guess the moralizers would like to nuke those countries if they knew what real rascism goes on there.

People cool down, and come down from your high podests... Albasini is just a bike racer, a really good one BTW. Leave it at that. If you wanna fight the bad things, go to eastern Ukraine or Palestine and help people there. Reza is fine. Guaranteed.

How can you "guarantee" anything in a situation you have absolutely nothing to do with?

 

[the delgados]

How can you "guarantee" anything in a situation you have absolutely nothing to do with?

I think he's saying the rider is gainfully employed by a pro tour team and he will be treated as such.
I recently heard a radio interview with the South African equivalent to John Stewart. He told a story about a friend in New York who apologized after suggesting they eat chicken for dinner when he was in New York. The guy apologized because he thought he made a racist comment. The South African laughed his *** off. Compared to what happens in South Africa, he said, the comment meant absolutely nothing.
Point being is we seem to feel better about ourselves by policing language while ignoring the fact that black people are living in poverty.

 

[Warhawk]

I think he's saying the rider is gainfully employed by a pro tour team and he will be treated as such.
I recently heard a radio interview with the South African equivalent to John Stewart. He told a story about a friend in New York who apologized after suggesting they eat chicken for dinner when he was in New York. The guy apologized because he thought he made a racist comment. The South African laughed his *** off. Compared to what happens in South Africa, he said, the comment meant absolutely nothing.
Point being is we seem to feel better about ourselves by policing language while ignoring the fact that black people are living in poverty.

The funny thing about food-related racial stereotypes is that the food is always always really good food. Seems kind of silly to make fun of black people for (according to the stereotype) liking fried chicken, or Mexicans for liking tacos, or Japanese people for liking sushi, etc., when all of those things are pretty frickin' great.

See, good food should unite us, not divide us!

Anyway, to your larger point, I think it's just easy for people to latch onto the ready-made controversy of a racist statement by a public person, because it's easy for us to appear moral and right at no particular cost to ourselves. It's a confrontation that we basically can win by default. Not that I'm excusing Albasini in any way whatsoever, if he said what he allegedly did he should probably be fined and really needs to take some time to reflect on his beliefs, but I don't award any brownie points to people who castigate him for it because it's largely a "free win." Ideally situations like this would inspire people to pitch in to address some real problems in the world that have more widespread and tangible impacts and which actually require effort to deal with, but in reality, it's too easy for people to just grab the low hanging fruit and use people like Albasini to get a high off their own moral superiority.