Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

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Re: Re:

No_Balls said:
Thats a pretty good summary Ray. They cry that they cant insult AC in a thread with his name because they then have to face some pretty heated counterarguments from "a mafia". After calling them out on their behavior they act offended and plays the morality card ( "jagartrotts" response is a prime example of this).

Oh well, this is my last response in this debate. This is a day to celebrate and nothing else :)
your theory of skybots and normal fans (you obviously associate yourself with) is utterly disgusting and disgraceful. ac is the great rider, probably one of the best ever, even just the greatest one by some parameters but he would be ashamed for his fanboys like you. support ac is very toxic on here. it just cannot go separately from massive disrespect towards the guys he opposes to.
 
Jul 19, 2010
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IamIronMan said:
I don't think Contador will go into the Tour as *the* favorite anymore. With his god awful team and this race which proved to take quite a toll on him, I think he will be the underdog now. That could be a good thing, as I'm sure it will be a battle of the super teams Astana and Sky, with Movistar right on their heels. Contador will have to just surf the wheels of other teams' trains, and be very precise with how and when he attacks. But there is ZERO chance he comes in and controls the race, individually, or with his team.
i hope so. Looks like every time the press makes a hype on certain riders, bad thing happens to them. Wiggo vs Nibali (Giro 2013), ended with Wiggo left the race. Porte vs Quintana (Giro 2014), ended up with Porte didn't even participate, Froome vs Contador (TDF 2014) - both crashed out. Froome vs Contador vs Quintana Vuelta 2014 - Quintana crashed out. Contador Giro 2015 - crashed 2x, puncture, mechanical - not an easy win from the luck stand point. Porte giro 2015 - hyped w/ his early season win - punctured, penalized, crashed. Hope the press is hyping Froome vs Nibali (the raining TDF champ) & Quintana. But that might impossible :(. I hope for a better luck in TDF for him. With giro leg and probably the same team strength, he can't afford to have a bad luck like in this Giro.
 
Re: Re:

No_Balls said:
Jagartrott said:
ggusta said:
If it makes you feel better to say that Landa (in particular) is a better climber, then go ahead. I would be foolish to argue the point. What do I care? Contador won the race. He has won 8 others (on the road), don't you think there is something correlative about him in particular other than his climbing that accounts for that? Or is it always just circumstance?
Seeing how Landa also did a lot of domestique duties and was kept on a rather tight leash, it's indeed quite logical to state that he was the best climber in this race (although I have a hard time believing he did it clean). You may not care about this, but several others here and elsewhere seemed to take offense to that, going as far as accusing people of trolling - trolling, just because someone doesn't agree with their position. I'm finding that all quite obnoxious and arrogant, and it spoils any serious discussion. If this was contained to this thread, that'd be OK, but it's also in the race threads and people are quite aggressive.

To be clear, I don't have any real race favourites, and I actually dislike Astana because I find them dodgy and I don't think people like Vinokourov should be involved in cycling. I look at races to enjoy the racing, and I don't particularly care who wins as long as he displays some kind of panache and I can more or less trust the result. So I don't really understand why people can be so 'into' one rider in particular - but I'm OK with it. What I'm not OK with is attacking other people for having a different view, or constantly shifting explanations post-date just so the story continuous to confirm the riders superiority. For example, the view 2 days ago (after the Cervinia stage) that Contador was such a boss for destroying Landa mentally, and that he could've attacked whenever he wanted. It's annoying to read such things in different forms every day also in the race thread AND at the same time see people being called trolls for stating another opinion (like Taxus, when he said yesterday that Contador in the current form would not be up to Froome and Quintana, and possibly Nibali and Pinot). "Don't feed the trolls" etc. Yeah.
I"ll answer too since it concerns me also.

Here's the deal:

1. The reason (some) AC-fans got furious by this was of course the early established narrative that Landa was in the race the better climber, and that climbing was all-important, before we actually knew this with certainty. Of course, given that they were all skybots it was necessary to quickly adopt Landa and conviently "forget" the embarrasing time trial from both Landa and Porte, and in systematic order of reducing the importance in Albertos victory, establish this point about climbing. Thats why we've seen the likes of Sam shifting stances from both pointing out the overriding importance of winning the Tour to the points about climbing rubbed in our face with clinical precision after each stage. When AC attacked in Cervinia the adopt attitude was faking that he'd cared and was "worried" it could jeopardise the Tour, at Mortirolo it was necessary to slam in AC-fans faces that Landa as the better climber could have done more, with the sole purpose of winding up fans. Now, the ring-leader tells its "a joke" and cries about "AC-fans". Of course, it gets heated sometimes, we are fans after all. What is definitively pathetic is houlier than thou-figures or self proclaimed voices of reason who takes a pleasure in winding up fans and then cries about the result.


2. As i was very active with that whole "destroy-Landa-mentally" thing. Whats strange with that? Its not like stating to the press saying "Alberto creates chaos in Astana" and "starts a war between me and Fabio" because of his shifted focus from Fabio to Mikel, directed who gets on the second step or who dont, is a normal thing to say to the press. Besides, we wouldnt even have this discussion if it was not for yesterday. Of course this statement could be wrong but again instead of confront me/us with that people take offense and goes crybabies "ohh, look how disrespectful THEY are". I see a lot of sneaky comments from the ton of sockpuppets which i dont care about but i suppose they are not a problem.

1. So in summary what you are saying is that even though other posters were correct with Landa being a better climber and they had the sense to actually notice it before AC fans admitted it? And thats why you got furious? And all of that while demeaning another rider who got injured during the race and had to withdraw?
2. Well, you were clearly wrong about destroying Landa mentally and others who pointed that out before got called trolls. So basically again, for pointing out the facts that do not play with your little 'Contador is god' narrative other users get ignored and called trolls even though they are correct. All while naming those users who clearly know more about cycling then you or are more open-minded to actually notice the dynamics of the race and call you out when writing such nonsense (Contador resting, he let them go, didn't want to win a stage anyway, could have followed if he wanted, etc.) as crybabies and sockpuppets.

How do you expect anyone to take you seriously?
 
Aug 4, 2011
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Bertie has done what he has needed to. He is one of the greatest riders of all time. How good as he been going in this Giro ? IMO he has not been at his best but lets see how he goes at the tour. I am hoping he will be full gas and wins.
Trying to claim Landa is a better climber when Bertie has had his fair share of mishaps and also has the tour in mind is really a desperate attempt IMO of Bertie bashing. This is not a Wiggo tour win FFS.
Thinking again about the TT, Bertie smashed it. When he was dominant he used to be in such TT form so maybe Bertie is a lot better than we "me included" have given him credit for and the tour could be a real possibility.
 
ray j willings said:
Bertie has done what he has needed to. He is one of the greatest riders of all time. How good as he been going in this Giro ? IMO he has not been at his best but lets see how he goes at the tour. I am hoping he will be full gas and wins.
Trying to claim Landa is a better climber when Bertie has had his fair share of mishaps and also has the tour in mind is really a desperate attempt IMO of Bertie bashing. This is not a Wiggo tour win FFS.
Thinking again about the TT, Bertie smashed it. When he was dominant he used to be in such TT form so maybe Bertie is a lot better than we "me included" have given him credit for and the tour could be a real possibility.
Nah, at least Wiggins won stages ;)
In all seriousness though I am not looking for excuses. I just watch the race and see what is happening in it. And in this race Landa was the better climber.
 
ray j willings said:
Trying to claim Landa is a better climber when Bertie has had his fair share of mishaps and also has the tour in mind is really a desperate attempt IMO of Bertie bashing. This is not a Wiggo tour win FFS.
You're right. Wiggins was the strongest climber and time trialist at the 2012 Tour compared to his GC rivals from other teams. Though Contador was the strongest time trialist, Landa was the superior climber.
 
Bronstein said:
ray j willings said:
Trying to claim Landa is a better climber when Bertie has had his fair share of mishaps and also has the tour in mind is really a desperate attempt IMO of Bertie bashing. This is not a Wiggo tour win FFS.
You're right. Wiggins was the strongest climber and time trialist at the 2012 Tour compared to his GC rivals from other teams. Though Contador was the strongest time trialist, Landa was the superior climber.
And Wiggins was climbing better than Nibali because?
 
*7. Please stop pretending like doping doesn't exist and shouldn't be punished.
Ehh, it does matter because being outclimbed by a rider who is 3rd rider in his own team doesn't bode well for a Tour. If Landa outclimbs Contador so badly just wait until he faces Nibali and Astana's first team (they will be much stronger, especially if Aru rides the Tour as well).

We will see, but it does look like really sub-par Contador this season (well, pretty much since his ban maybe except the first half of 2014)
 
damian13ster said:
*7. Please stop pretending like doping doesn't exist and shouldn't be punished.
Ehh, it does matter because being outclimbed by a rider who is 3rd rider in his own team doesn't bode well for a Tour. If Landa outclimbs Contador so badly just wait until he faces Nibali and Astana's first team (they will be much stronger, especially if Aru rides the Tour as well).

We will see, but it does look like really sub-par Contador this season (well, pretty much since his ban maybe except the first half of 2014)

How many did he win on the road?
 
Re:

Red Rick said:
damian13ster said:
*7. Please stop pretending like doping doesn't exist and shouldn't be punished.
Ehh, it does matter because being outclimbed by a rider who is 3rd rider in his own team doesn't bode well for a Tour. If Landa outclimbs Contador so badly just wait until he faces Nibali and Astana's first team (they will be much stronger, especially if Aru rides the Tour as well).

We will see, but it does look like really sub-par Contador this season (well, pretty much since his ban maybe except the first half of 2014)

How many did he win on the road?

I am not going to get into that discussion. Never visited the clinic and don't plan to. I just lose respect to all riders that were caught doping and believe they should be stripped of any achievements prior to that point and banned for 5 years and then for life for 2nd offense. It doesn't matter if you win on the road if you are on juice/have a motor in a bike, etc.

And just to give you a heads up, I am not going to reply to posts like yours that are clinic-related anymore.
 
Red Rick said:
Bronstein said:
ray j willings said:
Trying to claim Landa is a better climber when Bertie has had his fair share of mishaps and also has the tour in mind is really a desperate attempt IMO of Bertie bashing. This is not a Wiggo tour win FFS.
You're right. Wiggins was the strongest climber and time trialist at the 2012 Tour compared to his GC rivals from other teams. Though Contador was the strongest time trialist, Landa was the superior climber.
And Wiggins was climbing better than Nibali because?
Wiggins dropped Nibali on the Peyresourde stage.
 
It's absolutely wack that you can't even mention Contador's official palmares without all sorts of fans jumping on your jugular. Feel free to keep whatever reckoning you fancy, but don't bring it up every time someone doesn't share your particular, unofficial views.
 
Aug 31, 2012
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hrotha said:
It's absolutely wack that you can't even mention Contador's official palmares without all sorts of fans jumping on your jugular. Feel free to keep whatever reckoning you fancy, but don't bring it up every time someone doesn't share your particular, unofficial views.
Yeah, just absurd. Things are turning more and more into an echo chamber.

Moose McKnuckles said:
Why does it matter that "Landa was the better climber"?

It's like saying that the losing team had a better shooting percentage in a basketball game. So what?
No one is saying Contador didn't really win the Giro because he wasn't the best climber. As he won pretty much all his previous Grand Tours with superior climbing, as opposed to time trialling (except 2007, which he won thanks to the best climber being removed from the race), the fact that he wasn't the best climber this time around but won with a strong TT is notable and worthy of discussion.
 
Not this again.

FYI, I usually refer to the amount of races won on the road, I don't deny he's got 7 on paper, but when you're gonna start whining about doping and a man shouldn't be riding and shoul've lost all his titles - Thats not the way the rules are, and if you think everyone testing negative is clean, you're being extremely naive to say the least.

Incredibly pointless to keep debating it over and over again and if you want to whine about doping I suggest you find the appropriate subforum.

That said, I'm sure Flo will be coming up with 9 pictures any moment
 
Aug 4, 2011
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Re:

SeriousSam said:
hrotha said:
It's absolutely wack that you can't even mention Contador's official palmares without all sorts of fans jumping on your jugular. Feel free to keep whatever reckoning you fancy, but don't bring it up every time someone doesn't share your particular, unofficial views.
Yeah, just absurd. Things are turning more and more into an echo chamber.
No there not not,,not ,,,,not ,,,,not ,,,,,,not ,,,,,,not ,,,,,,,,not ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,not
 
Re:

hrotha said:
It's absolutely wack that you can't even mention Contador's official palmares without all sorts of fans jumping on your jugular. Feel free to keep whatever reckoning you fancy, but don't bring it up every time someone doesn't share your particular, unofficial views.
This, please be mature enough to realize there is a difference of views and that you don't need to try and correct people every time they mention the other point of view. Just enjoy the fact your man won the 2015 Giro, Congratulations Alberto Contador.
 
Jul 29, 2012
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damian13ster said:
*7. Please stop pretending like doping doesn't exist and shouldn't be punished.
Ehh, it does matter because being outclimbed by a rider who is 3rd rider in his own team doesn't bode well for a Tour. If Landa outclimbs Contador so badly just wait until he faces Nibali and Astana's first team (they will be much stronger, especially if Aru rides the Tour as well).

We will see, but it does look like really sub-par Contador this season (well, pretty much since his ban maybe except the first half of 2014)
First half of 2014? Wasn't breathing in the tour and was the best in the vuelta with very high competition.

We'll see in the tour, this 'form' could have all been planned.
 

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