Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Publicus]

Re: Re:

The team just need to make sure Contador starts every cobbled section at or near the front. Last year, he started the first section all the way at the front and got over it just fine. The second section, he was nowhere to be seen, and as the group stretched out on the cobbles, he was way way behind Nibali.

It was Contador that couldnt keep up. His teammates were still at the front until they realised he was gone.
He was really weak on the cobbles last year imo.

No really, watch the stage again. He started the first section at the front and got over it without any major issues (he wasn't super comfortable but then again it was the first section) then at the start of the 2nd section he was way back. I'm not saying he would/could have followed Nibali but the difference would have been smaller at the end of that section and maybe he could have caught Nibali on the regular roads after the 2nd cobbled section.

Edit: I just checked, he rides the entire 1st section in third wheel behind Bennati and Vanmarcke, and indeed, just before the 2nd section he is nowhere near the front

If I recall correctly, didn't he say he had mud in his gears such that he couldnt shift properly?

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

The team just need to make sure Contador starts every cobbled section at or near the front. Last year, he started the first section all the way at the front and got over it just fine. The second section, he was nowhere to be seen, and as the group stretched out on the cobbles, he was way way behind Nibali.

It was Contador that couldnt keep up. His teammates were still at the front until they realised he was gone.
He was really weak on the cobbles last year imo.

No really, watch the stage again. He started the first section at the front and got over it without any major issues (he wasn't super comfortable but then again it was the first section) then at the start of the 2nd section he was way back. I'm not saying he would/could have followed Nibali but the difference would have been smaller at the end of that section and maybe he could have caught Nibali on the regular roads after the 2nd cobbled section.

Edit: I just checked, he rides the entire 1st section in third wheel behind Bennati and Vanmarcke, and indeed, just before the 2nd section he is nowhere near the front

If I recall correctly, didn't he say he had mud in his gears such that he couldnt shift properly?

Precisely. Because of the mud he couldn't "drop into his small sprockets."

 

[Kwibus]

Of the big 4 I only really doubt Alberto's form for the Tour. I'm afraid he won't be at his best tbh.

I really hope he proofs me wrong ofcourse.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

Of the big 4 I only really doubt Alberto's form for the Tour. I'm afraid he win't be at his best tbh.

I really hope he proofs me wrong ofcourse.

Same here.

But Im trying to believe

 

[The_Cheech]

Re:

Of the big 4 I only really doubt Alberto's form for the Tour. I'm afraid he won't be at his best tbh.

I really hope he proofs me wrong of course.

I think part of that reticence has more to do with what happened at the TdF in 2011 (which was more due to him going all-out during one of the most difficult Giros of all time, by many accounts) and 2013, which was a terrible year for Alberto due to circumstances (I'm afraid) we will not know until he retires and writes a book.

All in all, seeing what he did to Chris in Spain last year, Alberto is in very good shape. NOW, IMO, his chances are dependent on him getting out of the first week unscathed, preferably with a time difference to the other three. If he gets a minute on everyone else prior to the first mountain stage, he's nailing that sucker to the ground and will not let go.

I don't think his TdF is going to be won "going 2009 Verbier" on every mountain finish. I think his potential win will be based on taking time here and there, letting the race dictate how much time he is going to put on someone else.

I highly suspect Alberto is going to take more time from the others going downhill than uphill. His attacks at the Giro and the Route du Sud lead me to believe he has been training hard at it. At one point, at the RdS, during the last mountain stage, he was putting 1 second per tight turn on Quintana.

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

Of the big 4 I only really doubt Alberto's form for the Tour. I'm afraid he won't be at his best tbh.

I really hope he proofs me wrong of course.

I think part of that reticence has more to do with what happened at the TdF in 2011 (which was more due to him going all-out during one of the most difficult Giros of all time, by many accounts) and 2013, which was a terrible year for Alberto due to circumstances (I'm afraid) we will not know until he retires and writes a book.

All in all, seeing what he did to Chris in Spain last year, Alberto is in very good shape. NOW, IMO, his chances are dependent on him getting out of the first week unscathed, preferably with a time difference to the other three. If he gets a minute on everyone else prior to the first mountain stage, he's nailing that sucker to the ground and will not let go.

I don't think his TdF is going to be won "going 2009 Verbier" on every mountain finish. I think his potential win will be based on taking time here and there, letting the race dictate how much time he is going to put on someone else.

I highly suspect Alberto is going to take more time from the others going downhill than uphill. His attacks at the Giro and the Route du Sud lead me to believe he has been training hard at it. At one point, at the RdS, during the last mountain stage, he was putting 1 second per tight turn on Quintana.

he isn't taking anything out of nibali downhill, the other 2 probably.

 

[The_Cheech]

Re: Re:

Of the big 4 I only really doubt Alberto's form for the Tour. I'm afraid he won't be at his best tbh.

I really hope he proofs me wrong of course.

I think part of that reticence has more to do with what happened at the TdF in 2011 (which was more due to him going all-out during one of the most difficult Giros of all time, by many accounts) and 2013, which was a terrible year for Alberto due to circumstances (I'm afraid) we will not know until he retires and writes a book.

All in all, seeing what he did to Chris in Spain last year, Alberto is in very good shape. NOW, IMO, his chances are dependent on him getting out of the first week unscathed, preferably with a time difference to the other three. If he gets a minute on everyone else prior to the first mountain stage, he's nailing that sucker to the ground and will not let go.

I don't think his TdF is going to be won "going 2009 Verbier" on every mountain finish. I think his potential win will be based on taking time here and there, letting the race dictate how much time he is going to put on someone else.

I highly suspect Alberto is going to take more time from the others going downhill than uphill. His attacks at the Giro and the Route du Sud lead me to believe he has been training hard at it. At one point, at the RdS, during the last mountain stage, he was putting 1 second per tight turn on Quintana.

he isn't taking anything out of nibali downhill, the other 2 probably.

You know what? I disagree. If Vincenzo shows up at the TdF in the shape he was in at the DL, he is in trouble. Even if he shows up in 2014 TdF shape he is in trouble. VN's chances are solely dependent on making out of the first week with a shitload of minutes on the others. He is going to get dropped multiple times in the uphill finishes.

Now, under normal circumstances, yes, Nibali is superior to Alberto. But AC's improvements going downhill far surpass VN's improvements going uphill, hence the Italian will not mount much of a challenge IMO. And what both did at the RdS & the DL this month prove my point.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Yep the mountains won't be Alberto's terrain this July
stage 1 - take time on Quintana
stage 2 echelons - take time on Quintana and maybe Froome
Huy, Bretagne (probably just bonus though) and Mende - take time on the other 3, though Froome could be close
Descents - take time on Quintana and Froome

Go Berto!!

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

Of the big 4 I only really doubt Alberto's form for the Tour. I'm afraid he won't be at his best tbh.

I really hope he proofs me wrong of course.

I think part of that reticence has more to do with what happened at the TdF in 2011 (which was more due to him going all-out during one of the most difficult Giros of all time, by many accounts) and 2013, which was a terrible year for Alberto due to circumstances (I'm afraid) we will not know until he retires and writes a book.

All in all, seeing what he did to Chris in Spain last year, Alberto is in very good shape. NOW, IMO, his chances are dependent on him getting out of the first week unscathed, preferably with a time difference to the other three. If he gets a minute on everyone else prior to the first mountain stage, he's nailing that sucker to the ground and will not let go.

I don't think his TdF is going to be won "going 2009 Verbier" on every mountain finish. I think his potential win will be based on taking time here and there, letting the race dictate how much time he is going to put on someone else.

I highly suspect Alberto is going to take more time from the others going downhill than uphill. His attacks at the Giro and the Route du Sud lead me to believe he has been training hard at it. At one point, at the RdS, during the last mountain stage, he was putting 1 second per tight turn on Quintana.

he isn't taking anything out of nibali downhill, the other 2 probably.

You know what? I disagree. If Vincenzo shows up at the TdF in the shape he was in at the DL, he is in trouble. Even if he shows up in 2014 TdF shape he is in trouble. VN's chances are solely dependent on making out of the first week with a shitload of minutes on the others. He is going to get dropped multiple times in the uphill finishes.

Now, under normal circumstances, yes, Nibali is superior to Alberto. But AC's improvements going downhill far surpass VN's improvements going uphill, hence the Italian will not mount much of a challenge IMO. And what both did at the RdS & the DL this month prove my point.

Hate to break it to you, but the Nibali of DL will not be the Nibali at the Tour. Looking at the shots of him on the podium after his victory yesterday, lets me know that he is incredibly lean and his condition is very good indeed. In fact I don't see Alberto having his weight down as it should be, though I obviously could be wrong.

I have a hunch that Nibali will suprise people at the Tour.

 

[Matteo.]

Re:

Yep the mountains won't be Alberto's terrain this July
stage 1 - take time on Quintana
stage 2 echelons - take time on Quintana and maybe Froome
Huy, Bretagne (probably just bonus though) and Mende - take time on the other 3, though Froome could be close
Descents - take time on Quintana and Froome

Go Berto!!

It 's hard for me to say but if' is as you say ... he has already lost.

Echelons or crash apart, how much he can earn in those stages? 40-50s, and after?
On Plateau, La Pierre, Toussuire and Alpe he will lose much more from Q or F or Nibali 2014
And I say more, with the shape of the Giro it hard to get on the podium. There is only one solution: must improve Giro's shape

 

[The_Cheech]

Re: Re:

Of the big 4 I only really doubt Alberto's form for the Tour. I'm afraid he won't be at his best tbh.

I really hope he proofs me wrong of course.

I think part of that reticence has more to do with what happened at the TdF in 2011 (which was more due to him going all-out during one of the most difficult Giros of all time, by many accounts) and 2013, which was a terrible year for Alberto due to circumstances (I'm afraid) we will not know until he retires and writes a book.

All in all, seeing what he did to Chris in Spain last year, Alberto is in very good shape. NOW, IMO, his chances are dependent on him getting out of the first week unscathed, preferably with a time difference to the other three. If he gets a minute on everyone else prior to the first mountain stage, he's nailing that sucker to the ground and will not let go.

I don't think his TdF is going to be won "going 2009 Verbier" on every mountain finish. I think his potential win will be based on taking time here and there, letting the race dictate how much time he is going to put on someone else.

I highly suspect Alberto is going to take more time from the others going downhill than uphill. His attacks at the Giro and the Route du Sud lead me to believe he has been training hard at it. At one point, at the RdS, during the last mountain stage, he was putting 1 second per tight turn on Quintana.

he isn't taking anything out of nibali downhill, the other 2 probably.

You know what? I disagree. If Vincenzo shows up at the TdF in the shape he was in at the DL, he is in trouble. Even if he shows up in 2014 TdF shape he is in trouble. VN's chances are solely dependent on making out of the first week with a shitload of minutes on the others. He is going to get dropped multiple times in the uphill finishes.

Now, under normal circumstances, yes, Nibali is superior to Alberto. But AC's improvements going downhill far surpass VN's improvements going uphill, hence the Italian will not mount much of a challenge IMO. And what both did at the RdS & the DL this month prove my point.

Hate to break it to you, but the Nibali of DL will not be the Nibali at the Tour. Looking at the shots of him on the podium after his victory yesterday, lets me know that he is incredibly lean and his condition is very good indeed. In fact I don't see Alberto having his weight down as it should be, though I obviously could be wrong.

I have a hunch that Nibali will suprise people at the Tour.

I don't judge riders by how lean they look, I judge them by how they perform prior to competition.

 

[The_Cheech]

Re: Re:

Yep the mountains won't be Alberto's terrain this July
stage 1 - take time on Quintana
stage 2 echelons - take time on Quintana and maybe Froome
Huy, Bretagne (probably just bonus though) and Mende - take time on the other 3, though Froome could be close
Descents - take time on Quintana and Froome

Go Berto!!

It 's hard for me to say but if' is as you say ... he has already lost.

Echelons or crash apart, how much he can earn in those stages? 40-50s, and after?
On Plateau, La Pierre, Toussuire and Alpe he will lose much more from Q or F or Nibali 2014
And I say more, with the shape of the Giro it hard to get on the podium. There is only one solution: must improve Giro's shape

Methinks La Florecita is being sarcastic. Of course Alberto's terrain is the mountain stages, but as of lately he has shown a preference to take time everywhere opportunity presents itself. Last year's Vuelta was a good example. Froome made the podium because the other two riders made some terrible mistakes. Alberto put Chris on a silver platter and the two amigos (Valverde and Purito) chose to ride as if they were taking the fight to AC.

IMO Tinkoff are going to be very active prior to the mountain stages. They have to.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Yep the mountains won't be Alberto's terrain this July
stage 1 - take time on Quintana
stage 2 echelons - take time on Quintana and maybe Froome
Huy, Bretagne (probably just bonus though) and Mende - take time on the other 3, though Froome could be close
Descents - take time on Quintana and Froome

Go Berto!!

It 's hard for me to say but if' is as you say ... he has already lost.

Echelons or crash apart, how much he can earn in those stages? 40-50s, and after?
On Plateau, La Pierre, Toussuire and Alpe he will lose much more from Q or F or Nibali 2014
And I say more, with the shape of the Giro it hard to get on the podium. There is only one solution: must improve Giro's shape

I didn't say he doesn't have to improve. I think if he wins the Tour, he wins it in those stages.

 

[Matteo.]

Re: Re:

Yep the mountains won't be Alberto's terrain this July
stage 1 - take time on Quintana
stage 2 echelons - take time on Quintana and maybe Froome
Huy, Bretagne (probably just bonus though) and Mende - take time on the other 3, though Froome could be close
Descents - take time on Quintana and Froome

Go Berto!!

It 's hard for me to say but if' is as you say ... he has already lost.

Echelons or crash apart, how much he can earn in those stages? 40-50s, and after?
On Plateau, La Pierre, Toussuire and Alpe he will lose much more from Q or F or Nibali 2014
And I say more, with the shape of the Giro it hard to get on the podium. There is only one solution: must improve Giro's shape

Methinks La Florecita is being sarcastic. Of course Alberto's terrain is the mountain stages, but as of lately he has shown a preference to take time everywhere opportunity presents itself. Last year's Vuelta was a good example. Froome made the podium because the other two riders made some terrible mistakes. Alberto put Chris on a silver platter and the two amigos (Valverde and Purito) chose to ride as if they were taking the fight to AC.

IMO Tinkoff are going to be very active prior to the mountain stages. They have to.

I had not read the previous messages.

However, last Vuelta? What do you mean in particular? I remember The Farrapona, Ancares where F destroyed them ... and perhaps even because of this, alberto won in the end, alone (as with other runners this year)) could not outrun them alone

 

[Matteo.]

Re: Re:

Yep the mountains won't be Alberto's terrain this July
stage 1 - take time on Quintana
stage 2 echelons - take time on Quintana and maybe Froome
Huy, Bretagne (probably just bonus though) and Mende - take time on the other 3, though Froome could be close
Descents - take time on Quintana and Froome

Go Berto!!

It 's hard for me to say but if' is as you say ... he has already lost.

Echelons or crash apart, how much he can earn in those stages? 40-50s, and after?
On Plateau, La Pierre, Toussuire and Alpe he will lose much more from Q or F or Nibali 2014
And I say more, with the shape of the Giro it hard to get on the podium. There is only one solution: must improve Giro's shape

I didn't say he doesn't have to improve. I think if he wins the Tour, he wins it in those stages.

I have an idea, a project for the victory : repeat 2014 Vuelta.
I do not see Alberto to attack to 4 or 5 km from the finish and coming alone. So he has to'
take advantage of Froome's acceleration to add fatigue and outsprint all in last 2 km.

I think this will be the only way to win

 

[The_Cheech]

Re: Re:

Yep the mountains won't be Alberto's terrain this July
stage 1 - take time on Quintana
stage 2 echelons - take time on Quintana and maybe Froome
Huy, Bretagne (probably just bonus though) and Mende - take time on the other 3, though Froome could be close
Descents - take time on Quintana and Froome

Go Berto!!

It 's hard for me to say but if' is as you say ... he has already lost.

Echelons or crash apart, how much he can earn in those stages? 40-50s, and after?
On Plateau, La Pierre, Toussuire and Alpe he will lose much more from Q or F or Nibali 2014
And I say more, with the shape of the Giro it hard to get on the podium. There is only one solution: must improve Giro's shape

Methinks La Florecita is being sarcastic. Of course Alberto's terrain is the mountain stages, but as of lately he has shown a preference to take time everywhere opportunity presents itself. Last year's Vuelta was a good example. Froome made the podium because the other two riders made some terrible mistakes. Alberto put Chris on a silver platter and the two amigos (Valverde and Purito) chose to ride as if they were taking the fight to AC.

IMO Tinkoff are going to be very active prior to the mountain stages. They have to.

I had not read the previous messages.

However, last Vuelta? What do you mean in particular? I remember The Farrapona, Ancares where F destroyed them ... and perhaps even because of this, alberto won in the end, alone (as with other runners this year)) could not outrun them alone

You took my Vuelta comment out of context. What I mean when I said that as of lately Alberto likes to improvise was what he did at Fuente De, this RdS' downhill escapade or even sprinting for bonus seconds at the Giro. He no longer chooses to take the fight to the other riders solely on the mountain stages or the ITTs: It's on every time, everywhere with anybody.

Last year's Vuelta was more an example of how he adapts to the circumstances. First he had a chance to put a lot of time on CF but dumb and dumber (Purito + Valverde) rode the Kenyan back to life choosing to be as uncooperative as possible at various stages. Alberto worked around that by not going into the red and saving his energies for the Froome onslaught. He did and then he attacked Chris.

Textbook cycling.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Tbh, I would be absolutely shocked if Nibali is the one out of the top 4 who misses out on a podium. Not only is he the likeliest to be safe at the end of an extremely difficult first week, but he's the best descender, and certainly not bad uphill.

 

[ray j willings]

Re:

Tbh, I would be absolutely shocked if Nibali is the one out of the top 4 who misses out on a podium. Not only is he the likeliest to be safe at the end of an extremely difficult first week, but he's the best descender, and certainly not bad uphill.

Nibs has to match the best in the climbs. If not he won't make the podium.
I hope he steps up. He looked great climbing in last years tour.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

Of the big 4 I only really doubt Alberto's form for the Tour. I'm afraid he won't be at his best tbh.

I really hope he proofs me wrong of course.

I think part of that reticence has more to do with what happened at the TdF in 2011 (which was more due to him going all-out during one of the most difficult Giros of all time, by many accounts) and 2013, which was a terrible year for Alberto due to circumstances (I'm afraid) we will not know until he retires and writes a book.

All in all, seeing what he did to Chris in Spain last year, Alberto is in very good shape. NOW, IMO, his chances are dependent on him getting out of the first week unscathed, preferably with a time difference to the other three. If he gets a minute on everyone else prior to the first mountain stage, he's nailing that sucker to the ground and will not let go.

I don't think his TdF is going to be won "going 2009 Verbier" on every mountain finish. I think his potential win will be based on taking time here and there, letting the race dictate how much time he is going to put on someone else.

I highly suspect Alberto is going to take more time from the others going downhill than uphill. His attacks at the Giro and the Route du Sud lead me to believe he has been training hard at it. At one point, at the RdS, during the last mountain stage, he was putting 1 second per tight turn on Quintana.

he isn't taking anything out of nibali downhill, the other 2 probably.

You know what? I disagree. If Vincenzo shows up at the TdF in the shape he was in at the DL, he is in trouble. Even if he shows up in 2014 TdF shape he is in trouble. VN's chances are solely dependent on making out of the first week with a shitload of minutes on the others. He is going to get dropped multiple times in the uphill finishes.

Now, under normal circumstances, yes, Nibali is superior to Alberto. But AC's improvements going downhill far surpass VN's improvements going uphill, hence the Italian will not mount much of a challenge IMO. And what both did at the RdS & the DL this month prove my point.[/quote]

Hate to break it to you, but the Nibali of DL will not be the Nibali at the Tour. Looking at the shots of him on the podium after his victory yesterday, lets me know that he is incredibly lean and his condition is very good indeed. In fact I don't see Alberto having his weight down as it should be, though I obviously could be wrong.

I have a hunch that Nibali will suprise people at the Tour.[/quote]

I don't judge riders by how lean they look, I judge them by how they perform prior to competition.[/quote]

Ok, so Nibali just won the Italian National Championships after a similar type of performance as last year in DL (when he went on to win his national title as well). We all know how he went on perform at the Tour then. And being lean in and of itself isn't the issue, but being lean and winning as he did is very indicative of his form as the Tour arrives. In short, the squalo is ready.

So what is your point then?

 

[The_Cheech]

Re: Re:

Ok, so Nibali just won the Italian National Championships after a similar type of performance as last year in DL (when he went on to win his national title as well). We all know how he went on perform at the Tour then. And being lean in and of itself isn't the issue, but being lean and winning as he did is very indicative of his form as the Tour arrives. In short, the squalo is ready. So what is your point then?

You're talking as though the Italian National Championships is the pinnacle of cycling... It isn't.

He won the 2014 TdF because neither Quintana nor Froome or Contador were there (for whatever reason).

 

[Miburo]

fleur how does it look? In shape?

https://instagram.com/p/4e_G-ln-FX/

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

fleur how does it look? In shape?

https://instagram.com/p/4e_G-ln-FX/

He looks "normal", only slightly skinnier than at the Giro

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

Ok, so Nibali just won the Italian National Championships after a similar type of performance as last year in DL (when he went on to win his national title as well). We all know how he went on perform at the Tour then. And being lean in and of itself isn't the issue, but being lean and winning as he did is very indicative of his form as the Tour arrives. In short, the squalo is ready. So what is your point then?

You're talking as though the Italian National Championships is the pinnacle of cycling... It isn't.

He won the 2014 TdF because neither Quintana nor Froome or Contador were there (for whatever reason).

You are so off the point. I was talking about his performance and physique in this year's national championships (which, by the way, isn't a walk in the park), in light of his performance in last year's race and what his form was before the Tour.

You are a moron not to take these factors into consideration. Nibali has "hit his numbers" just in time, don't doubt it at your own risk. This, of course, has nothing to do with winning the Tour, but if he arrives in a good position like last year after the first week, then he has a chance.

 

[Electress]

Re: Re:

fleur how does it look? In shape?

https://instagram.com/p/4e_G-ln-FX/

He looks "normal", only slightly skinnier than at the Giro

Looks like the watermelon diet is working ok to me.

Quite curious as to how long this heatwave might last…no rain on the cobbles will make things less interesting.

 

[SeriousSam]

That's a nice dawg he's got.