Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[blackmamba]

Re: Re:

Whoops, I dont know if you just edited it, but I couldn't stop laughing when I read your last sentence. Dear lord.

You know I say the same about Boonen right and the cobble classics? My thoughts on Cancellara for instance?

I guess that makes me a fanboy of Contador, Cancellara and Boonen what a coincidence just randomly happens to be the greatest of our generation. No boy im a fan of cycling first and foremost im sad for you that you cant appriciate so unique and rare talents and let your hatred come in the way of truly enjoying beeing actually able to live when some of history greatest in cycling actually raced (in their respective areas ofc) Boonen best cobble classic rider of all time and Contador GT rider, last one can be argued Ill admit that but definitly NOT when it comes to our generation!

So for all means laugh away

Im by no means a Contador-hater at all. But I guess it makes me a hater to question your statement that Contador, when 100%, is the best in all aspects. All aspects in GT's include climbing, TTing, downhill, tactics etc. If that was the case, Contador would win by a landslide in July. I think its fair to question that.

Yes, Quintana is regarded as the GC-contender who has the best recovery. At least by me and a lot others, coincidentally not many of the AC-fans tho. The difference being, I dont state that as an obnoxious fact as blackmamba does and calls everyone who disagrees or even questions it a hater.

You did right questioning what you did cause what you thought wasnt what i meant 100%. Im sorry but im not exactly the best typing in english so I get that you misunderstood me. Hes not the best TTer ANYMORE hes lost something there thats proven without a doubt, but hes still more than capable in that dicipline and especially in a TT like the one in this years TDF.

 

[dacooley]

Re:

Anyway this is pointless and stupid discussion. I wont participate anymore its like arguing over answers beeing wrong in test when the facts proves the real answer (in this case the history books proves it )


Ill just end it with its nothing more I hope for this year in cycling that we get Contador in top conditions vs Froome and Ill add in Quintana aswell in top Conditions cause nothing was worse for a cycling fan than last time we was robbbed for that spectacular show in 2014.

And no,not at all dacoley it just means in this instance hes wrong nothing more

do you admit any other tones apart from love and hate regarding attitude to the riders? that is hilarious as originally you state about the extent you hate nairo but at the same time from your perspective everyone should regard an in-form bertie as uncontestedy strongest gc rider at all terrains. and if one is disagree, that's one's obvious hatred.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Good, I hoped you would at least admit that Contador wasn't the best TT'er anymore. Thats something I guess. But I suppose he is still the best climber, has the most stamina, the best recovery etc? Either way, the TT won't matter much this year, so he should really handle Quintana and Froome quite easily come week 3.

Edit: Good post, dacooley. It seems everything is a little too black/white for blackmamba. You dont necessarily have to either hate or love a rider. I appreciate Contador, I have had many speculator cycling memories with him, but I dont root for him and I question people like you who blindly states things such as you did above, that goes for every rider

 

[blackmamba]

Re: Re:

Anyway this is pointless and stupid discussion. I wont participate anymore its like arguing over answers beeing wrong in test when the facts proves the real answer (in this case the history books proves it )


Ill just end it with its nothing more I hope for this year in cycling that we get Contador in top conditions vs Froome and Ill add in Quintana aswell in top Conditions cause nothing was worse for a cycling fan than last time we was robbbed for that spectacular show in 2014.

And no,not at all dacoley it just means in this instance hes wrong nothing more

do you admit any other tones apart from love and hate regarding attitude to the riders? that is hilarious as originally you state about the extent you hate nairo but at the same time from your perspective everyone should regard an in-form bertie as uncontestedy strongest gc rider at all terrains. and if one is disagree, that's one's obvious hatred.

Dude I said that time I hated how he rode thats a huge difference if you understand that. And I do that beacuse he has a immense talent which I dontbelieve fulfills riding like that, if he was a awesome TTer he would make sense to ride like that but not from a crappy TTer with a incredibly climbing talent.

Riding like Jan Ullrich when you got the climbing talent of Contador doesnt make sense to me and that was what I hated about Nairo I pray to god you can see the difference...

 

[Swifty's Cakes]

Data is all well and good but you have one really bad day and booooom your tour is over.
We all [ bertie fans] want Bertie to win but come the tour come Froome Quintana and bonkers Astana and those numbers mean nothing. You have to know how to suffer its that simple.
The tour is won on the road not on data figures.
I'm seriously considering switching to becoming a Foome fan ....Bertie fans on here are so nerdy its unbelievable.
Do you actually ride a bike? Its like a real click of geeks who couldn't ride alp d huez in under a hour. You absolutely have no idea. Go ride a bike FFS.

I'm going over to the dark side

Contador is superior to everyone in all areas ( tactically, strenght etc) WHEN hes in top shape so how are they gonne beat him? With superior team is the only chance if he dont crash or anything like that. (And before you mention the recent tours try to think further than your nose and logically pls. HE RODE THE GIRO before rest you should figure out yourself.

Its simple, fanboy all you want as a excuse but its pretty simply when you look at the facts I actually challenge anyone to come up with a single serious note based on facts / stats that we know of and not just your thoughts which is totally not interessting but FACTS to show otherwice, he is simply the greatest GT rider of all time. To be ahead of the answers again, YES HINAULT is a all time great and a huge champion but he competed at a time when it was far less competition and technology and science basically didnt exsist and he didnt keep on winning grand tours 10 years after the first one, even then so its not even close at this point.

So yes if hes TOP shape without any injuries or illness ahead of the Tour he will win, barring any incidents in the Tour ofc. But he needs to be top shape else he wont be good enough cause Froome is good!

He's not the greatest GT rider of all time. If he has 9 then you really have to give merckx 12 for the 69 giro so he's a way off there, and thats before you speculate about how many more Coppi would have won if he didnt spend his mid 20's in a PoW camp. Alberto is by far the best of his generation but he's not the greatest ever.

In a time when exactly how many was into cyclingc compared to the lvl cycling is now and the last 10 years? (look at the money which is in cycling these days, science etc everything compared to back when Coppi, Merckx etc) Anyway I get your points but I respectfully have to disagree with you beacuse of the competition lvl now compared to then.

Also neither Merckx won GT's in a time span over 10 years? Thought it was 5-6 max 7 years he won em but I might be wrong about that.

I guess its debateable and comes down to whatever you value the most I guess and also may I add impossible to get the real answer from imo beacuse of the difference in times.

you can argue longevity is greater and I'll counter with the number of times Merckx won 2 GT's in a year, you can argue the level of competition and I'll argue that a TDF win is greater than a Vuelta these things are all debatable but I like to take a more simple approach - whoever has the most wins is the best.

 

[blackmamba]

Re:

Good, I hoped you would at least admit that Contador wasn't the best TT'er anymore. Thats something I guess. But I suppose he is still the best climber, has the most stamina, the best recovery etc? Either way, the TT won't matter much this year, so he should really handle Quintana and Froome quite easily come week 3.

Edit: Good post, dacooley. It seems everything is a little too black/white for blackmamba. You dont necessarily have to either hate or love a rider. I appreciate Contador, I have had many speculator cycling memories with him, but I dont root for him and I question people like you who blindly states things such as you did above, that goes for every rider

Ok sure dude can you explain to me then what about those things I said wasnt true? Please only proven things we know of which is based on facts / stats not your thoughts but actually something real, then were talking real discussion.

Also please read my answer about you misunderstanding me so you dont bring up that one cause that wont count to this one cause like I stated you misundestood that part, or I said it in a poor way whatever way you wanne look at it

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Good, I hoped you would at least admit that Contador wasn't the best TT'er anymore. Thats something I guess. But I suppose he is still the best climber, has the most stamina, the best recovery etc? Either way, the TT won't matter much this year, so he should really handle Quintana and Froome quite easily come week 3.

Edit: Good post, dacooley. It seems everything is a little too black/white for blackmamba. You dont necessarily have to either hate or love a rider. I appreciate Contador, I have had many speculator cycling memories with him, but I dont root for him and I question people like you who blindly states things such as you did above, that goes for every rider

Ok sure dude can you explain to me then what about those things I said wasnt true? Please only proven things we know of which is based on facts / stats not your thoughts but actually something real, then were talking real discussion.

Also please read my answer about you misunderstanding me so you dont bring up that one cause that wont count to this one cause like I stated you misundestood that part, or I said it in a poor way whatever way you wanne look at it

Ok. When has Contador, post ban, shown he was the best climber? On the contrary, when has Froome shown he was the best climber and what have Nairo Quintana done in order for the bookmakers' consensus that he is the 2nd biggest favourite, ahead of Contador?

I think you surely meant what you said since you think Contador is above the rest in every other aspect, sans the TT where you admitted Froome was better

 

[blackmamba]

Data is all well and good but you have one really bad day and booooom your tour is over.
We all [ bertie fans] want Bertie to win but come the tour come Froome Quintana and bonkers Astana and those numbers mean nothing. You have to know how to suffer its that simple.
The tour is won on the road not on data figures.
I'm seriously considering switching to becoming a Foome fan ....Bertie fans on here are so nerdy its unbelievable.
Do you actually ride a bike? Its like a real click of geeks who couldn't ride alp d huez in under a hour. You absolutely have no idea. Go ride a bike FFS.

I'm going over to the dark side

Contador is superior to everyone in all areas ( tactically, strenght etc) WHEN hes in top shape so how are they gonne beat him? With superior team is the only chance if he dont crash or anything like that. (And before you mention the recent tours try to think further than your nose and logically pls. HE RODE THE GIRO before rest you should figure out yourself.

Its simple, fanboy all you want as a excuse but its pretty simply when you look at the facts I actually challenge anyone to come up with a single serious note based on facts / stats that we know of and not just your thoughts which is totally not interessting but FACTS to show otherwice, he is simply the greatest GT rider of all time. To be ahead of the answers again, YES HINAULT is a all time great and a huge champion but he competed at a time when it was far less competition and technology and science basically didnt exsist and he didnt keep on winning grand tours 10 years after the first one, even then so its not even close at this point.

So yes if hes TOP shape without any injuries or illness ahead of the Tour he will win, barring any incidents in the Tour ofc. But he needs to be top shape else he wont be good enough cause Froome is good!

He's not the greatest GT rider of all time. If he has 9 then you really have to give merckx 12 for the 69 giro so he's a way off there, and thats before you speculate about how many more Coppi would have won if he didnt spend his mid 20's in a PoW camp. Alberto is by far the best of his generation but he's not the greatest ever.

In a time when exactly how many was into cyclingc compared to the lvl cycling is now and the last 10 years? (look at the money which is in cycling these days, science etc everything compared to back when Coppi, Merckx etc) Anyway I get your points but I respectfully have to disagree with you beacuse of the competition lvl now compared to then.

Also neither Merckx won GT's in a time span over 10 years? Thought it was 5-6 max 7 years he won em but I might be wrong about that.

I guess its debateable and comes down to whatever you value the most I guess and also may I add impossible to get the real answer from imo beacuse of the difference in times.

you can argue longevity is greater and I'll counter with the number of times Merckx won 2 GT's in a year, you can argue the level of competition and I'll argue that a TDF win is greater than a Vuelta these things are all debatable but I like to take a more simple approach - whoever has the most wins is the best.

Usually how I look at it too but to me its a little like Jordan vs Bill Russel ( I dont think anyone in the worlds almost argues over that Jordan is the best of all time). Its exactly the same points there and I do believe you gotte make exception for it and take the competition lvl into account in some cases and in this aswell I myself believe that atleast.

But I agree in general it comes down to whoever have the most wins cause basically thats the only way we can really measure em, can talk and argue like you said it 100 times over it doesnt help. But those things aswell greatest of all time things, since they competed in different times you have to use a nice mix of logic and that who has the most wins imo but its hard cause like I said those things doesnt really have 1 real answer.

 

[BlurryVII]

Quintana has the best recovery? Excuse me, where you took that from? lol

Absolutely nothing indicates he has a better recovery than Contador.

 

[Taxus4a]

Data is all well and good but you have one really bad day and booooom your tour is over.
We all [ bertie fans] want Bertie to win but come the tour come Froome Quintana and bonkers Astana and those numbers mean nothing. You have to know how to suffer its that simple.
The tour is won on the road not on data figures.
I'm seriously considering switching to becoming a Foome fan ....Bertie fans on here are so nerdy its unbelievable.
Do you actually ride a bike? Its like a real click of geeks who couldn't ride alp d huez in under a hour. You absolutely have no idea. Go ride a bike FFS.

I'm going over to the dark side

Contador is superior to everyone in all areas ( tactically, strenght etc) WHEN hes in top shape

He has never showed that after his santion. To say that you must do that in le Tour, or to go to a race at the same shape than the rest of the bet riders of the world.

He is very good in tachtics. He is very good in analysisng races and rivals. He is very good in short ITT with climbs or at least ryth changes (corners,...) . he is very good in a climb when people is medium tired and a few droped. He has a powerfull attack and a very good first part of any attack.

He has a good recovery, he is good in general in ITT, he is good in general in mountain stages. He is fod in the flat

He is not very good in a long stage with several climbs with battle from far. He is not very good in long and flats ITT (especially with wind)


So, IMO, he is not very good in recovery as everybody said, there are better people, he is better in one week than in 3 weeks, Froome and Quintana better in 3 weeks.

And he is not very good in all kind of mountains stages and situations. There are better people for the flat a well.

 

[blackmamba]

Re: Re:

Good, I hoped you would at least admit that Contador wasn't the best TT'er anymore. Thats something I guess. But I suppose he is still the best climber, has the most stamina, the best recovery etc? Either way, the TT won't matter much this year, so he should really handle Quintana and Froome quite easily come week 3.

Edit: Good post, dacooley. It seems everything is a little too black/white for blackmamba. You dont necessarily have to either hate or love a rider. I appreciate Contador, I have had many speculator cycling memories with him, but I dont root for him and I question people like you who blindly states things such as you did above, that goes for every rider

Ok sure dude can you explain to me then what about those things I said wasnt true? Please only proven things we know of which is based on facts / stats not your thoughts but actually something real, then were talking real discussion.

Also please read my answer about you misunderstanding me so you dont bring up that one cause that wont count to this one cause like I stated you misundestood that part, or I said it in a poor way whatever way you wanne look at it

Ok. When has Contador, post ban, shown he was the best climber? On the contrary, when has Froome shown he was the best climber and what have Nairo Quintana done in order for the bookmakers' consensus that he is the 2nd biggest favourite, ahead of Contador?

I think you surely meant what you said since you think Contador is above the rest in every other aspect, sans the TT where you admitted Froome was better

Thats the thing, we havent seen Froome vs Contador 100% top shape head to head yet its why I conclude my points on the closest things we know. The Vuelta 2014, thats the closest conditions lvl to eachother they have competed.

And no I just got a little a head of myself with that point and I dont think Contador is better than Froome at TTing, (altough I can underdstand you thought I meant that) hes not anymore he used to be, but like I said his TT is not at the lvl it used to be and I say that cause thats a proven fact!

But anyway gentlemen I gotte go watch the champions league games, toodeloo.

 

[Ramon Koran]

Re:

Quintana has the best recovery? Excuse me, where you took that from? lol

Absolutely nothing indicates he has a better recovery than Contador.

Contador recovery is not great post ban, tdf 2013, 2015, giro 2015. I would put him on par with frooome in that domain

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

Ok. When has Contador, post ban, shown he was the best climber? On the contrary, when has Froome shown he was the best climber and what have Nairo Quintana done in order for the bookmakers' consensus that he is the 2nd biggest favourite, ahead of Contador?

The best climber in 2014 was Contador. In 2015 he went for the double, didn't really go for a major peak at the Giro thinking about the Tour as well which didn't pay off at the end. Turns out we didn't see the best Contador at any moment in 2015.

Now for the thousandth time, it's different. Keep being ignorant.

 

[LaFlorecita]

This discussion

 

[Ramon Koran]

Re: Re:

Ok. When has Contador, post ban, shown he was the best climber? On the contrary, when has Froome shown he was the best climber and what have Nairo Quintana done in order for the bookmakers' consensus that he is the 2nd biggest favourite, ahead of Contador?

The best climber in 2014 was Contador. In 2015 he went for the double, didn't really go for a major peak at the Giro thinking about the Tour as well which didn't pay off at the end. Turns out we didn't see the best Contador at any moment in 2015.

Now for the thousandth time, it's different. Keep being ignorant.

Where was Contador best climber 2014? What about nibali for ex? In 2014 Contador lose catalunya to purito for exemple. I'm not 100% that Alberto best climber 2014, I don't think it fact like you say it is

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

Ok. When has Contador, post ban, shown he was the best climber? On the contrary, when has Froome shown he was the best climber and what have Nairo Quintana done in order for the bookmakers' consensus that he is the 2nd biggest favourite, ahead of Contador?

The best climber in 2014 was Contador. In 2015 he went for the double, didn't really go for a major peak at the Giro thinking about the Tour as well which didn't pay off at the end. Turns out we didn't see the best Contador at any moment in 2015.

Now for the thousandth time, it's different. Keep being ignorant.

If bertie doesnt win in july providing all the favorites are healthy., Will you Admit to have been wrong?

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Quintana has the best recovery? Excuse me, where you took that from? lol

Absolutely nothing indicates he has a better recovery than Contador.

While it isn't a fact, which I haven't stated it as either, we have seen that Quintana got progressively better towards the end of stage races which INDICATES that he may be having a better recovery than Contador. Its not certain.

But on the other hand, we haven't seen Contador having better recovery than Nairo which you have stated in our previous conversation. The only examples we have of those 2 squaring up against each other is 2013 and 2015 which we can't use.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

Quintana has the best recovery? Excuse me, where you took that from? lol

Absolutely nothing indicates he has a better recovery than Contador.

Contador recovery is not great post ban, tdf 2013, 2015, giro 2015. I would put him on par with frooome in that domain

hmm, yeah, what about his 2014 and 2016 unreal spring consistency which has to do with recovery, what about the Vuelta 2014 and Vuelta 2012 as well (cracked on Bola del mundo, but he had close to no racing prior to that Vuelta, and recovering from the Fuente De strike was understandably hard and I don't think CF and NQ do that kind of far out attacks now do they? ) .

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

Ok. When has Contador, post ban, shown he was the best climber? On the contrary, when has Froome shown he was the best climber and what have Nairo Quintana done in order for the bookmakers' consensus that he is the 2nd biggest favourite, ahead of Contador?

The best climber in 2014 was Contador. In 2015 he went for the double, didn't really go for a major peak at the Giro thinking about the Tour as well which didn't pay off at the end. Turns out we didn't see the best Contador at any moment in 2015.

Now for the thousandth time, it's different. Keep being ignorant.

If bertie doesnt win in july providing all the favorites are healthy., Will you Admit to have been wrong?

And if he wins, will you stop asking off-topic stupid questions?

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Ok. When has Contador, post ban, shown he was the best climber? On the contrary, when has Froome shown he was the best climber and what have Nairo Quintana done in order for the bookmakers' consensus that he is the 2nd biggest favourite, ahead of Contador?

The best climber in 2014 was Contador. In 2015 he went for the double, didn't really go for a major peak at the Giro thinking about the Tour as well which didn't pay off at the end. Turns out we didn't see the best Contador at any moment in 2015.

Now for the thousandth time, it's different. Keep being ignorant.

So, Contador was straight up bad in 2013, really good in 2014 and mediocre for his standards in 2015. Meanwhile, Froome was worldbeating in 2013 and 2015 and was just as good as Contador in 2014, at least in Dauphine. Contador obviously won the Vuelta ahead of Froome, but those were different circumstances.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

Ok. When has Contador, post ban, shown he was the best climber? On the contrary, when has Froome shown he was the best climber and what have Nairo Quintana done in order for the bookmakers' consensus that he is the 2nd biggest favourite, ahead of Contador?

The best climber in 2014 was Contador. In 2015 he went for the double, didn't really go for a major peak at the Giro thinking about the Tour as well which didn't pay off at the end. Turns out we didn't see the best Contador at any moment in 2015.

Now for the thousandth time, it's different. Keep being ignorant.

Where was Contador best climber 2014? What about nibali for ex? In 2014 Contador lose catalunya to purito for exemple. I'm not 100% that Alberto best climber 2014, I don't think it fact like you say it is

it is difficult to say that, acording to results maybe Contador was, but the fort mountain stage in Dauphine is a good termometer, and froome was stronger.

Purito beated him at Cataluña.

He was the better climber in la Vuelta, but...some days Froome was better, and in general very similar, he won the race in the ITT, so after that he jusst needed to follow Froome. and ITT where Uran was better than Froome...

But respect Nibali I disagree, Contador was better, or at least we dont have days to ay Nibali was better. In the only reference we have, in the rain, so good for Nibali, Contador was 3 seconds better.

With Quintana we dont have more references that than Tirreno, I think is not the best reference, but...it is the only we have, and Contador was better. But if we consider that Contador is better for that day, Quintana is better for 2015.

 

[BlurryVII]

Oh and he crashed at the Giro 2015, don't forget.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

Ok. When has Contador, post ban, shown he was the best climber? On the contrary, when has Froome shown he was the best climber and what have Nairo Quintana done in order for the bookmakers' consensus that he is the 2nd biggest favourite, ahead of Contador?

The best climber in 2014 was Contador. In 2015 he went for the double, didn't really go for a major peak at the Giro thinking about the Tour as well which didn't pay off at the end. Turns out we didn't see the best Contador at any moment in 2015.

Now for the thousandth time, it's different. Keep being ignorant.

If bertie doesnt win in july providing all the favorites are healthy., Will you Admit to have been wrong?

And if he wins, will you stop asking off-topic stupid questions?

Your intellegence as always has no boundaries

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

Ok. When has Contador, post ban, shown he was the best climber? On the contrary, when has Froome shown he was the best climber and what have Nairo Quintana done in order for the bookmakers' consensus that he is the 2nd biggest favourite, ahead of Contador?

The best climber in 2014 was Contador. In 2015 he went for the double, didn't really go for a major peak at the Giro thinking about the Tour as well which didn't pay off at the end. Turns out we didn't see the best Contador at any moment in 2015.

Now for the thousandth time, it's different. Keep being ignorant.

Where was Contador best climber 2014? What about nibali for ex? In 2014 Contador lose catalunya to purito for exemple. I'm not 100% that Alberto best climber 2014, I don't think it fact like you say it is

It is a fact, deal with it. You conviently overlook a few races, why's that? He Destroyed Quintana in Tirreno, beat Froome on Catalunya, and Dauphiné (he crashed? No luck, he has *** recovery). and re-smashed Froome at the Vuelta.

Now you're gonna say Froome was riding Vuelta as training blablablalala and Contador prepared that race for like 3 years. And that's where the discussion ends.

 

[BlurryVII]

oh cheese, I forgot Nibali LOL, surely better climber than Contador in 2014.