Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Miburo]

Absolutely wrong. If he's bad, he's bad, he'll never win the tour even if he has 8 godlike climbers. Look at tour 2013 for example, he had a great team, kreuziger was in his best shape ever.

And in great form it's not gonna be a walkover, he still needs great climbers for several circumstances.

The rouleurs are in both bad and good form of pretty much the same value. Contador in really good shape doesn't even need good rouleurs. He can close gaps on the flat himself.

Look at PN '09 and giro '11 in which Declercq stated that Contador was closing gaps on the flat like it was nothing while everyone was on their limit.

And if you forgot what happened in PN '09, there was an echelon stage. Contador was behind and he closed a gap in the wind by himself. Only the true greats can, it's super hard to do that.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Absolutely wrong. If he's bad, he's bad, he'll never win the tour even if he has 8 godlike climbers. Look at tour 2013 for example, he had a great team, kreuziger was in his best shape ever.

And in great form it's not gonna be a walkover, he still needs great climbers for several circumstances.

The rouleurs are in both bad and good form of pretty much the same value. Contador in really good shape doesn't even need good rouleurs. He can close gaps on the flat himself.

Look at PN '09 and giro '11 in which Declercq stated that Contador was closing gaps on the flat like it was nothing while everyone was on their limit.

And if you forgot what happened in PN '09, there was an echelon stage. Contador was behind and he closed a gap in the wind by himself. Only the true greats can, it's super hard to do that.

I agree with your post, but I only have a problem with the bolded.

Of course he needs rouleurs. He isn't up against an up and coming one trick pony like Andy in 2009 or Scarponi/Nibali in 2011. This is a, presumeably, peak Froome and peak Quintana. Contador needs to safe every ounce of energy on the flat with help of the likes of Valggren and Bennati to either follow or put time into his competitors in the mountains. The times of 2009 Tour and 2011 Giro are gone when he literally didn't need any team - lets not kid ourselves, Contador IS weaker than that, even in peak shape, and his opposition is much tougher than it ever was at that point.

Contador has stated multiple times that the most important for him is go get fresh and without trouble to the mountains, then he will handle business, but he obviously needs a few really good climbers for either a) pressing the tempo at some crucial points followed by an attack or b) throw them in breaks and catch up with them later.

 

[Brullnux]

Well, he didn't need any team last year at the Giro and he wasn't close to top shape.

2014 Contador was close to 2009 Contador, so that level is possible to reach again.

 

[Valv.Piti]

The day that Contador reaches that shape again at 33 y/o and shows that sheer dominance, I'll personally fly to the Netherlands and congratulate LF and tell her I was wrong all along

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

Absolutely wrong. If he's bad, he's bad, he'll never win the tour even if he has 8 godlike climbers. Look at tour 2013 for example, he had a great team, kreuziger was in his best shape ever.

And in great form it's not gonna be a walkover, he still needs great climbers for several circumstances.

The rouleurs are in both bad and good form of pretty much the same value. Contador in really good shape doesn't even need good rouleurs. He can close gaps on the flat himself.

Look at PN '09 and giro '11 in which Declercq stated that Contador was closing gaps on the flat like it was nothing while everyone was on their limit.

And if you forgot what happened in PN '09, there was an echelon stage. Contador was behind and he closed a gap in the wind by himself. Only the true greats can, it's super hard to do that.

And how is he gonna try something from the distance if he is 2 minutes down on the leader in the last stages? When he will have more climbers in the team,it can be doable.

Bolded: not really,what if he rides one third of a Tour in maillot jaune,how he will handle peloton and attacks and breakways with 2 roulers in the team ?

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

The day that Contador reaches that shape again at 33 y/o and shows that sheer dominance, I'll personally fly to the Netherlands and congratulate LF and tell her I was wrong all along

You should better buy a ticket, I think those are cheaper with advance

Seriously how can you know? I agree its unlikely but how can you be so sure that in 2014 or 2016 his form is not 2011/or 2009

 

[Miburo]

Rouleurs aren't much of help in the 3rd week since it's mostly mountains and their primary use is to get the leader through the nervous first week of the tour. For this years route, last week is all mountains. What use is a rouleur exactly?

And when contador is bad he ain't gonna be behind a mere 2 minutes at the last stage LOL

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

Rouleurs aren't much of help in the 3rd week since it's mostly mountains and their primary use is to get the leader through the nervous first week of the tour. For this years route, last week is all mountains. What use is a rouleur exactly?

And when contador is bad he ain't gonna be behind a mere 2 minutes at the last stage LOL

Huhh,I dont think Kreuziger and Majka will ride from km 0 and catch attacks of Froome and Quintana's teammates.Would be better to have Benna and Tosso for that,they handle the first 10-20km even if its mountainous.

Im not saying he will be 2 mins behind,but what if?
I see there the correlactiom between form and composition of a team,you not,thats how things are,different feelings

 

[BlurryVII]

Team will be good for 2 things, defend the leader's jersey especially in multi climb stages so we don't have a Dauphiné 14' scenario again, and close as many gaps as possible for Alberto on the flat so he can save energy.
That's pretty much it.

Now the whole 'he's got to have a good team in case he's bad or needs to attack from far out', is just wrong. If he's bad, it's over before it even starts, and attacking from far out is never ever gonna work at the Tour, especially if you're gonna have Sky and Movistar chasing you as soon as you move an inch.

 

[SevenTimeTdfChamp]

Re:

Team will be good for 2 things, defend the leader's jersey especially in multi climb stages so we don't have a Dauphiné 14' scenario again, and close as many gaps as possible for Alberto on the flat so he can save energy.
That's pretty much it.

Now the whole 'he's got to have a good team in case he's bad or needs to attack from far out', is just wrong. If he's bad, it's over before it even starts, and attacking from far out is never ever gonna work at the Tour, especially if you're gonna have Sky and Movistar chasing you as soon as you move an inch.

Probably didnt watch the 98 tdf. But the teammates defending the yellow jersey in the mountains could also go in a break away and make the break away explode so contador have some stepping stones up the mountain

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

Team will be good for 2 things, defend the leader's jersey especially in multi climb stages so we don't have a Dauphiné 14' scenario again, and close as many gaps as possible for Alberto on the flat so he can save energy.
That's pretty much it.

Now the whole 'he's got to have a good team in case he's bad or needs to attack from far out', is just wrong. If he's bad, it's over before it even starts, and attacking from far out is never ever gonna work at the Tour, especially if you're gonna have Sky and Movistar chasing you as soon as you move an inch.

I see Alberto didnt taught you anything

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Team will be good for 2 things, defend the leader's jersey especially in multi climb stages so we don't have a Dauphiné 14' scenario again, and close as many gaps as possible for Alberto on the flat so he can save energy.
That's pretty much it.

Now the whole 'he's got to have a good team in case he's bad or needs to attack from far out', is just wrong. If he's bad, it's over before it even starts, and attacking from far out is never ever gonna work at the Tour, especially if you're gonna have Sky and Movistar chasing you as soon as you move an inch.

I see Alberto didnt taught you anything

There's a big, big difference between being competitive, but unable to drop your opponents, and being bad. If he's as terrible as last year, no attack will ever stick. Might as well go stagehunting then. It's a very thin line of needing to make long range attacks and being able to make them work.

 

[Miburo]

I don't think Ilovecycling knows the definition of bad.

If he's bad, it's over. It's that simple, no matter how big his heart is especially against this kinda of competition. Maybe he could have pulled that out in the giro like nibali but not against quintana and froome.

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah, and Nibali actually pulled it off on his good days.

 

[Jelantik]

Re:

Absolutely wrong. If he's bad, he's bad, he'll never win the tour even if he has 8 godlike climbers. Look at tour 2013 for example, he had a great team, kreuziger was in his best shape ever.

And in great form it's not gonna be a walkover, he still needs great climbers for several circumstances.

The rouleurs are in both bad and good form of pretty much the same value. Contador in really good shape doesn't even need good rouleurs. He can close gaps on the flat himself.

Look at PN '09 and giro '11 in which Declercq stated that Contador was closing gaps on the flat like it was nothing while everyone was on their limit.

And if you forgot what happened in PN '09, there was an echelon stage. Contador was behind and he closed a gap in the wind by himself. Only the true greats can, it's super hard to do that.

But you forgot something. He was way younger. Now he is 33? Before even closing the gap on the flat, let's see if he can attack and stick against Froome and Quintana like he used to do.

 

[Jelantik]

Re:

Yeah, and Nibali actually pulled it off on his good days.

I thought Nibali was in his prime after winning his first Giro, and can't drop the 42year old grand pa?

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

I don't think Ilovecycling knows the definition of bad.

If he's bad, it's over. It's that simple, no matter how big his heart is especially against this kinda of competition. Maybe he could have pulled that out in the giro like nibali but not against quintana and froome.

You are right

But I meant something like Red rick said above,that he wouldnt have been able to drop his opponents (and they would drop him in one or two occasions during Tour)

 

[Jakub]

I am so glad, that it's been talked about Trek That would be marvellous.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

Absolutely wrong. If he's bad, he's bad, he'll never win the tour even if he has 8 godlike climbers. Look at tour 2013 for example, he had a great team, kreuziger was in his best shape ever.

And in great form it's not gonna be a walkover, he still needs great climbers for several circumstances.

The rouleurs are in both bad and good form of pretty much the same value. Contador in really good shape doesn't even need good rouleurs. He can close gaps on the flat himself.

Look at PN '09 and giro '11 in which Declercq stated that Contador was closing gaps on the flat like it was nothing while everyone was on their limit.

And if you forgot what happened in PN '09, there was an echelon stage. Contador was behind and he closed a gap in the wind by himself. Only the true greats can, it's super hard to do that.

But you forgot something. He was way younger. Now he is 33? Before even closing the gap on the flat, let's see if he can attack and stick against Froome and Quintana like he used to do.

He doesn't have to. Today the science has changed training and racing. The attacks are now more acute, but longer. This is where Froome has prooved irresistable. Contador doesn't need to attack. He should follow, because he can follow if in top shape. This fact must be remembered when challenging Froome, as he demonstrated when both were on equal terms at the 14 Vuelta. He's got the secret weapon of an accelleration when nobody has anything left, but only first if Froome has shot his bullets. He can accellerate when Froome's watts fade. Froome has to ride the competition off his wheel. Normally this works, however, a top form Alberto can sit on his wheel and wait. Then when Froome must drop pace...Boom!

I think Quintana might be ready to also sit on Froome's wheel, so this will change the dynamic.

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Froome doesn't even need to drop Contador, just match him in the mountains and beat him in the ITTs.

 

[rhubroma]

Re:

Froome doesn't even need to drop Contador, just match him in the mountains and beat him in the ITTs.

Froome can't resist in the mountains, since there is nothing written that he beats Contador in the ITTs. They all must go max on the days when there is a chance to make a difference. No saving energy, no calculations.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Froome doesn't even need to drop Contador, just match him in the mountains and beat him in the ITTs.

Froome can't resist in the mountains, since there is nothing written that he beats Contador in the ITTs. They all must go max on the days when there is a chance to make a difference. No saving energy, no calculations.

Not to mention that if the past is anything to go by, Froome needs to take advantage when he's stronger than Contador and Quintana (first two weeks) so that he has a buffer to play with when he's not as strong (last week).

Then again, he faded due to illness last year, whereas in 2013 he had a hunger knock on stage 18 and was overcome by emotion on stage 20 according to him, and he hasn't really faded in any other GTs (with the exception of the last week of Vuelta 2012 when he did Tour-Olympics-Vuelta). Different reasons for fading each time don't necessarily suggest a recurring problem

 

[Red Rick]

2013 hilly tt was a sign of fading as well, though he won the tt due to a tactical error from the others.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

2013 hilly tt was a sign of fading as well, though he won the tt due to a tactical error from the others.

If thats what fading means, I think Froome will be in for a good July.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

2013 hilly tt was a sign of fading as well, though he won the tt due to a tactical error from the others.

If thats what fading means, I think Froome will be in for a good July.

That, or he's just not great at hilly tt's. Because honestly, if I see a guy winning by minutes in the mountains, and gaining minutes in a flat tt, I don't expect that he can only just win the hilly tt because he switched his bike.

Take a look at the other riders there. Had that tt been in the first two weeks he'd have smashed it. On the other hand, if they'd do that same tt this year, expect both Contador and Quintana to do better than they did.