Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[ThePirate81]

@rhubroma
You forget Sheffield and the pavé stage...
@movingtarget
I agree. Nibali was a beast in that Tour. Hope for Giro-Vuelta double this year.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Nibali has been more dominant than Contador has post-ban in some of the most important races, but I would still take Contador for his consistency and actually caring about other races than a few specific races during a season over that period. Objectively, Nibali definitely has the better GT palmarés post-ban tho, no doubt. 3 GT's each, but Nibali has the big one and 2nd in the Vuelta. He also has a bunch of stage wins which I value highly when winning a GT, dominating opponents and winning stages alá Armstrong. Froome in 2013 and Nibali in 2014 springs to mind here as some truly dominant forces.

Generally, Contador's fan do put too much honour in continuously stating he doesn't care about secondary places while using the argument that he has never finished on a podium in a GC. Only forgetting that he tried very hard to stay on the podium in the 2013 TdF and the 2016 Vuelta. I don't know Contador well enough to speculate on whether he would take a well fought 2nd place in July, a stage win and a bunch of respect and attention from fans/media over the relatively small opportunity of winning. Who knows. I genuinely think Contador thinks he can win so I assume he would be disappointed if he didn't, but DFA's take is also very interesting.

Dude, what are you talking about? The only reason Nibali won that Tour is because Froome and Contador crashed out. If Nibali can't win other races, it's not for lack of trying, but he just can't and have the class to compete in the bigger objectives.

Dno if serious here, but Nibali has won 4 GTs and a monument. He seems perfectly capable of competing in the 'bigger objectives'.

 

[Publicus]

Re: Re:

He's obviously believing that under ideal circumstances, which patently wasn't the case at Tinkov, he can find both the necessary power and stamina to overcome Froome (and Quintana if the Giro doesn't effect him adversely) at the Tour. A podium certainly means nothing to him. It's win or fail. Evidently we will see if between PN and the Dauphine he shows signs he can hit those kind of numbers. It is a shame we didn't get to see at least one mountain showdown in the 2014 Tour before both he and Froome crashed out. I think that will still leave some doubt in his and his entourage's minds about this coming July, as to whether or not AC can produce the necessary levels to defeat Froome at the Tour.

I don't agree with this. His record has been so poor at the Tour for half his career now, post-ban, that I think he would bite your hand off if you offered him a second place behind Froome at the Tour - proving (kind of) that he is the best of the rest.

Objectively, 2nd at the Tour, given his record there, would be a great result for this season.

Objectively maybe but he clearly still very much believes he can win and anyways anything can happen, Froome could crash out or lose 4 minutes after a mechanical or have an off-season, there is no way Berto would settle for 2nd.

Edit: I should add that I'd rate a win at Paris-Nice or Pais Vasco above a 2nd place at the Tour (aka first loser) and I bet Berto would too.

Edit2: But if he were to finish 2nd after a perfect prep and a perfect race with no misfortune I think that would ease his mind knowing that that is the most he could get out of it - yes 2014 2016 "what if" but I don't think he'd be as obsessed anymore

Yeah, that's fair. Perhaps beforehand he wouldn't accept it, because Froome has failed to finish more than one GT now. I just think if he came into the last week a minute or two behind Froome in 2nd place, with Quintana or Bardet just behind him, we wouldn't see a win or bust attack - it'd be much more likely to see him try to defend 2nd.

Not sure about Paris-Nice or Pais Vasco meaning so much to him nowdays. There's the commercial angle as well - in that Trek will be paying him a lot of money and will want some decent exposure at the Tour - which finishing 2nd would bring. Week long stage races unfortunately don't even come close in this day and age.

I would hope to everything that makes Contador Contador he would never take this stance. I'd much rather he let Quintana and/or Bardet initiate attacks and use that to counterattack Froome and possible chip into his lead. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

[HelloDolly]

Can't see Contador riding for Mollema ...who rarely if ever attacks....Imagine they will each ride their own race

And I think every race is important ot these guys.....If Contador can outclimb Quintana think of the psychological advantage ....they are so competitive ALL the time

Why do you think Contdor has added his name to this race .....to test himself against Quintana and the rest
No other reason

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

Of course, a second place adds nothing to his career. He'll go for the win but at at the end i think he'll be happy with the podium and why not a stage win. We need to be realistic: 2007-2011 are gone, as someone said , in fact, the old Contador would have won the MTF in Andalusia ( 500m soon or not).

I think 2nd place definitely adds something. In the Froome/Quintana era, Contador is yet to come close to challenging on the biggest stage of all - the Tour. If he could finish 2nd, beating Quintana and pushing Froome at times, then I think that would mark him out as a great spanning two eras. At the moment, he's the greatest rider from the Schleck/Evans era, but only 3rd or 4th in the Froome/Quintana/Nibali era. A 2nd place, beating Quintana and seriously challenging Froome would add something imo. 2nd at the Tour, for example, would be worth more than beating a weak Giro field, or winning the Vuelta in your only GT of the season.

The old Contador would not have resisted the power of a bloodthirsty Thinard Pinault (a.k.a the second coming of Eddy Merckx)...come on .

I see your point and I agree with it. In the Froome/Quintana/Nibali era, for one reason or another, Contador is falling short. But I still think that he has it. With the optimal preparation and ideal circumstances, he can do it. The problem as highlighted in this thread is that next week doesn't fit as an ideal preparation, that altering a well thought-out calendar may be a mistake. Add to this a weak team compared to Sky, at some point, many small disadvantages catch up.

I wrote months ago: since when is 2nd place good? It used to be Contador's famous line. LaFlo's signature.

I wish Contador the best, in the big picture he's way above Nibali, but in his post-ban career he isn't. I see the point. He must go for the TdF win, let nothing be in the way.

 

[dacooley]

One might think 2nd in the Tour would add quintana, froome or nibali's palmares more.

 

[Red Rick]

I'd say it would add little for any of them

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Why do you think Contdor has added his name to this race .....

Because he feels a race will give him the explosiveness training can't give him and he wants to be at the best possible level for Paris-Nice. It's his main objective this spring.

For Abu Dhabi, I expect him to take a passive approach and only follow wheels. I don't think he will attack as he won't want to actively undermine Mollema.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

The problem as highlighted in this thread is that next week doesn't fit as an ideal preparation, that altering a well thought-out calendar may be a mistake.

He knows what he's doing. I hope.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Travelling around the globe to race 3 pan flat stages (which basically is active recovery with a considerably higher chance of crashing) and one MTF where he apparently will support Mollema is weird. His point being that racing is different to anything else. In this case, Im pretty sure he could have simulated that MTF in training.

So either a) he wants to beat up the world's elite after losing Andalucía by 1 second or b) he genuinely wants to support Mollema in order to cash in some good will. I don't buy into its a better preparation before Nice.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

Why do you think Contdor has added his name to this race .....

Because he feels a race will give him the explosiveness training can't give him and he wants to be at the best possible level for Paris-Nice. It's his main objective this spring.

For Abu Dhabi, I expect him to take a passive approach and only follow wheels. I don't think he will attack as he won't want to actively undermine Mollema.

Don't get that ....explosive training by following wheels ....how does that work ?

Do 7 hour flight for 3 flat stages and to follow wheels ....no way

He is going after Quintana .....Do you think he is going to follow wheels when Quintana has attacked and he is about the only one who can catch him?

He will just sit ther and pace Mollema to 3rd place or something ?

I thought people on here knew Contador

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Travelling around the globe to race 3 pan flat stages (which basically is active recovery with a considerably higher chance of crashing) and one MTF where he apparently will support Mollema is weird. His point being that racing is different to anything else. In this case, Im pretty sure he could have simulated that MTF in training.

So either a) he wants to beat up the world's elite after losing Andalucía by 1 second or b) he genuinely wants to support Mollema in order to cash in some good will. I don't buy into its a better preparation before Nice.

It's not just about the MTF it's about all stages. What he says is that the intensity of competition could never be properly simulated in training.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Don't get that ....explosive training by following wheels ....how does that work ?

Well this is what the man himself has to say

Yo veía que el trabajo de base ha sido bueno, pero sin la explosividad que te da la propia competición. Las series a tope que haces en competición no las consigues al mismo nivel de exigencia por mucho que las simules entrenándote.

- his basework has been good but he still lacks the explosiveness that you get from competing

He completado una muy buena concentración en Tenerife, he hecho miles y miles de metros de ascensión, pero nada de trasmoto y mejor que trasmoto para lograr velocidad en las piernas es la propia competición.

- he had a good training camp in Tenerife with lots and lots climbing but he didn't do any motopacing and what's even better than motopacing to get speed in the legs is racing, he says.

Do 7 hour flight for 3 flat stages and to follow wheels ....no way

He is going after Quintana .....Do you think he is going to follow wheels when Quintana has attacked and he is about the only one who can catch him?

He will just sit ther and pace Mollema to 3rd place or something ?

I thought people on here knew Contador

I said he will follow wheels and not attack himself... do you not consider Quintana's wheel a wheel that he can (attempt to) follow??
And yes perhaps he will just pace Mollema like for example he did with Mick in 2013... but I think it's more likely he will follow attacks.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Travelling around the globe to race 3 pan flat stages (which basically is active recovery with a considerably higher chance of crashing) and one MTF where he apparently will support Mollema is weird. His point being that racing is different to anything else. In this case, Im pretty sure he could have simulated that MTF in training.

So either a) he wants to beat up the world's elite after losing Andalucía by 1 second or b) he genuinely wants to support Mollema in order to cash in some good will. I don't buy into its a better preparation before Nice.

It's not just about the MTF it's about all stages. What he says is that the intensity of competition could never be properly simulated in training.

If he talks about the nervousness in the peloton when he refers to intensity, then yes. You don't do much intensity if any on flat stages in the Middle East in February if there aren't echelons if you are just sitting in the bunch.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Travelling around the globe to race 3 pan flat stages (which basically is active recovery with a considerably higher chance of crashing) and one MTF where he apparently will support Mollema is weird. His point being that racing is different to anything else. In this case, Im pretty sure he could have simulated that MTF in training.

So either a) he wants to beat up the world's elite after losing Andalucía by 1 second or b) he genuinely wants to support Mollema in order to cash in some good will. I don't buy into its a better preparation before Nice.

It's not just about the MTF it's about all stages. What he says is that the intensity of competition could never be properly simulated in training.

If he talks about the nervousness in the peloton when he refers to intensity, then yes. You don't do much intensity if any on flat stages in the Middle East in February if there aren't echelons if you are just sitting in the bunch.

Indeed, it makes no sense. He'd be better off going to Omloop if he really wants to get some intensity! Or, better still, why didn't put in some hard attacks early on in those last two stages in Andalucia - get some really hard intervals in with the motivation of a Movistar led peloton chasing him down. Of course, there is a chance he may have ended up getting shelled out of the back, but 2nd place and last place are the same to him anyway, right?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Yes, he makes no sense, he must be lying again as he always does, us armchair critics know better, bla bla

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Yes, he makes no sense, he must be lying again as he always does, us armchair critics know better, bla bla

He just doesn't make much sense, thats all.

If you are looking into how many watts is needed to stay in the bunch on a flat and uneventful stage, you'd realise its merely a sunday ride for a rider such as Contador. Thats why we are arguing its a pretty stupid argument.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Yes, he makes no sense, he must be lying again as he always does, us armchair critics know better, bla bla

Well, of course he's not going to Abu Dhabi to improve his shape. He'll do three and three quarter stages sat averaging less than 200w, crossing his fingers that he'll avoid crashes, with just one half an hour interval at the end of stage 3. For a climber looking to get race sharpness for Paris-Nice, it is undoutedbly worse than a hard training block.

He can spin it however he wants, but it's clearly a marketing or $$$ decision - either made by him or by Trek.

 

[Pennino]

I'm sorry but this is just stupid. It's not about watts nor about getting used to a nervous peloton. It's about getting that speed in the legs, those intense accelerations after every corner, you simply cannot simulate that while training. In a peloton you have to always react to what's going on in front of you.

But as Flo stated, you expert watchers obviously know best.

PS. this talk about Abu Dhabi organizers paying $$$ for having him on their race unfortunately makes some sense in a way, although I don't believe it's any relevant for Contador now. Especially if Mollema is really the leader on paper.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Oh I wouldn't be surprised if he got a big bag of money to start - it would be stupid though to jeopardize his season for something so irrelevant.
I prefer to believe he isn't that hungry for money, so there must be a good reason. I don't believe for one second he's traveling all the way to Abu Dhabi just to get clobbered like a baby seal by Quintana.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re:

Can't see Contador riding for Mollema ...who rarely if ever attacks....Imagine they will each ride their own race

That's an unfair statement.

 

[DFA123]

I'm sorry but this is just stupid. It's not about watts nor about getting used to a nervous peloton. It's about getting that speed in the legs, those intense accelerations after every corner, you simply cannot simulate that while training. In a peloton you have to always react to what's going on in front of you.

But as Flo stated, you expert watchers obviously know best.

PS. this talk about Abu Dhabi organizers paying $$$ for having him on their race unfortunately makes some sense in a way, although I don't believe it's any relevant for Contador now. Especially if Mollema is really the leader on paper.

This just isn't true. Take a look at the power file from racers in Abu Dhabi last year - Amador for example - https://www.strava.com/activities/774373254/analysis.

Average power is less than 200w, normalized power 224w for three hours. Total work 1760Kj. And the intense accelerations around the corners are mostly around 400w. That's barely above threshold for Contador. It's an easy Sunday club ride - significantly easier than the average pro training ride. Any decent club cyclist could stay in the peloton pretty comfortably with the power demands needed.

In fact, he'd get a better workout, with more intense changes in pace, going out on a local Cat 1/2 equivalent race anywhere in Spain. Or even a tough club ride.

 

[Netserk]

You just don't get it. It's not about the power profile. There's a reason all riders have preparation races. Why do you think a rider like Andy bothered to show up to Suisse before the Tour, instead of just training at home 'more efficiently'?

 

[Pennino]

I'm sorry but this is just stupid. It's not about watts nor about getting used to a nervous peloton. It's about getting that speed in the legs, those intense accelerations after every corner, you simply cannot simulate that while training. In a peloton you have to always react to what's going on in front of you.

But as Flo stated, you expert watchers obviously know best.

PS. this talk about Abu Dhabi organizers paying $$$ for having him on their race unfortunately makes some sense in a way, although I don't believe it's any relevant for Contador now. Especially if Mollema is really the leader on paper.

This just isn't true. Take a look at the power file from racers in Abu Dhabi last year - Amador for example - https://www.strava.com/activities/774373254/analysis.

Average power is less than 200w, normalized power 224w for three hours. Total work 1760Kj. And the intense accelerations around the corners are mostly around 400w. That's barely above threshold for Contador. It's an easy Sunday club ride - significantly easier than the average pro training ride. Any decent club cyclist could stay in the peloton pretty comfortably with the power demands needed.

In fact, he'd get a better workout, with more intense changes in pace, going out on a local Cat 1/2 equivalent race anywhere in Spain. Or even a tough club ride.

As I said, it's not just about watts. It's about that in a race (and of course you can race in many different modes, I guess Contador's approach will be that of always staying at the front by his teammates) you constantly need to react. You just cannot bring it all down to some numbers. Team Sky would wish.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

You just don't get it. It's not about the power profile. There's a reason all riders have preparation races. Why do you think a rider like Andy bothered to show up to Suisse before the Tour, instead of just training at home 'more efficiently'?

There is a huge difference between the training effect from Suisse and from Abu Dhabi. The power profile would be completely different from the two races. And it is all about the power profile, unless he's going to Abu Dhabi to practice his bike handling.

There are several reasons why Contador could be going to Abu Dhabi. Money / being leaned by influential people being the most obvious. But it could also be because he thinks he can win the race (but can't say because Mollema is designated leader), or perhaps he wants to see where he is at against Quintana (again, announcing it publically would betray a slight lack of self-confidence). Or maybe Trek sees it as easy WT points but don't think Mollema has the shape they expected at this stage, or perhaps he just fancies a few days in warm weather and nice hotels.

What he isn't going for is to improve his racing sharpness - because it's absolutely not the race for that. He should be at Omloop if he really wanted to push himself in that respect. Throughout his career, Contador has continuously mislead and been disingenuous with the media and in interviews - this is clearly another such occasion.