Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[bob.a.feet]

Re:

Different topic

IYO, what should be Trek's Tour team? My opinion:

Leader
Contador

Mountain support
Pantano
Cardoso
Zubeldia

Allround support
Gogl
Felline

Flat support
Irizar
Brändle
Rast

If Degenkolb is willing to work for Berto if necessary, he can be on the team instead of Rast. But no domestiques assigned to him, please. Winning a stage was always going to be a long shot for him but he seems far off his best form.

Sadly, I think it will look like this:
Contador
Mollema
Pantano
Zubeldia/Cardoso
Felline
Degenkolb
De Kort
Brändle
Irizar/Gogl

Even if Trek are committed to Contador for the Tour, there's no way any team would exclude Degenkolb from the lineup.

 

[Valv.Piti]

No, suggesting that Degenkolb shouldn't ride is pretty fan boyish honestly. Degenkolb has much greater chances of winning a stage than Contador has as the Tour.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Even if Trek are committed to Contador for the Tour, there's no way any team would exclude Degenkolb from the lineup.

I know, it's not what I think the team will be but what it should be, according to me

 

[portugal11]

Re:

Different topic

IYO, what should be Trek's Tour team? My opinion:

Leader
Contador

Mountain support
Pantano
Cardoso
Zubeldia

Allround support
Gogl
Felline

Flat support
Irizar
Brändle
Rast

If Degenkolb is willing to work for Berto if necessary, he can be on the team instead of Rast. But no domestiques assigned to him, please. Winning a stage was always going to be a long shot for him but he seems far off his best form.

Sadly, I think it will look like this:
Contador
Mollema
Pantano
Zubeldia/Cardoso
Felline
Degenkolb
De Kort
Brändle
Irizar/Gogl

De kort has a good relationship with contador. I'm pretty sure he will work for him. Degenkolb is in horrible shape but i'm pretty sure he will go to the tour

 

[TheYouyou7]

Re:

No, suggesting that Degenkolb shouldn't ride is pretty fan boyish honestly. Degenkolb has much greater chances of winning a stage than Contador has as the Tour.

lol, his best chance is stage 3 and he will get beaten by at least Sagan and Matthews..

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

No, suggesting that Degenkolb shouldn't ride is pretty fan boyish honestly. Degenkolb has much greater chances of winning a stage than Contador has as the Tour.

lol, his best chance is stage 3 and he will get beaten by at least Sagan and Matthews..

Degenkolb has 10 chances or so to win a stage, its completely nonsensical to suggest Contador's chances of winning overall are greater. But whatever dude, whatever floats your boat.

 

[portugal11]

Re:

No, suggesting that Degenkolb shouldn't ride is pretty fan boyish honestly. Degenkolb has much greater chances of winning a stage than Contador has as the Tour.

Lol... did you even see his sprints in tour de suisse? The guy is awful

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

No, suggesting that Degenkolb shouldn't ride is pretty fan boyish honestly. Degenkolb has much greater chances of winning a stage than Contador has as the Tour.

I disagree. Even in Suisse's horrible sprint field he can't impress. At the Tour, we'll also see Demare, Kittel, Groenewegen, Bouhanni, Greipel etc. Only Rodez and stage 3 are a possibility for Degenkolb, although I'm not sure just how tough those finishes are, but Sagan, Matthews and Van Avermaet at least should be better.

 

[Gigs_98]

I honestly think that Mollema definitely should be in the team. His big weakness seems to be recovery since he always fades at the end of a gt, but as a domestique he can rest on a few days to be at his best at a few specific mountain stages and in those stages he could be an incredible helper.
Also, I definitely expect Gogl to ride the tour. He gave an interview to the ORF two weeks ago in which he is absolutely sure that he'll go to France in July.
http://sport.orf.at/stories/2274350/

Of course that still could change but since Gogl has been quite good so far this season and because Contador and he seem to get along with each other very well I don't think it will

 

[Red Rick]

Seriously, I'd ditch Degenkolb for the Tour and take him to the Vuelta. He sucks right now and isn't doing *** in that field.

 

[TheYouyou7]

Re: Re:

No, suggesting that Degenkolb shouldn't ride is pretty fan boyish honestly. Degenkolb has much greater chances of winning a stage than Contador has as the Tour.

lol, his best chance is stage 3 and he will get beaten by at least Sagan and Matthews..

Degenkolb has 10 chances or so to win a stage, its completely nonsensical to suggest Contador's chances of winning overall are greater. But whatever dude, whatever floats your boat.

Seriously, are you this stupid ? everybody knows that even in top shape, Degenkolb can't win a mass sprint if there are no crashes etc...

 

[Valv.Piti]

Are all of you guys seriously suggesting that Contador has bigger possibilities to win OVERALL than Degenkolb has of fluking a stage win somewhere along this horribly designed, sprinter-friendly route? I know he isn't impressive, but come on. Thats just.. yeah.

 

[TheYouyou7]

I honestly think that Mollema definitely should be in the team. His big weakness seems to be recovery since he always fades at the end of a gt, but as a domestique he can rest on a few days to be at his best at a few specific mountain stages and in those stages he could be an incredible helper.
Also, I definitely expect Gogl to ride the tour. He gave an interview to the ORF two weeks ago in which he is absolutely sure that he'll go to France in July.
http://sport.orf.at/stories/2274350/

Of course that still could change but since Gogl has been quite good so far this season and because Contador and he seem to get along with each other very well I don't think it will

He didn't perform well in Dauphiné. I doubt he'll be up there

 

[TheYouyou7]

Re:

Are all of you guys seriously suggesting that Contador has bigger possibilities to win OVERALL than Degenkolb has of fluking a stage win somewhere along this horribly designed, sprinter-friendly route? I know he isn't impressive, but come on. Thats just.. yeah.

Yes, clearly.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

No, suggesting that Degenkolb shouldn't ride is pretty fan boyish honestly. Degenkolb has much greater chances of winning a stage than Contador has as the Tour.

lol, his best chance is stage 3 and he will get beaten by at least Sagan and Matthews..

Degenkolb has 10 chances or so to win a stage, its completely nonsensical to suggest Contador's chances of winning overall are greater. But whatever dude, whatever floats your boat.

Seriously, are you this stupid ? everybody knows that even in top shape, Degenkolb can't win a mass sprint if there are no crashes etc...

Contador's chances, as per the collective wisdom, are about 1/15. If you can tell me I get 15 times or more my money back if Degenkolb wins a stage in this Tour, where he has about 10 possibilities (!!), I'd place a good chunk of my money on that.

But it obviously comes down to how you guys rate his chances of winning. Which, needless to say, generally would be a lot higher than the objective or unbiased cycling fan, betting-man or whatever.

 

[portugal11]

Re:

Are all of you guys seriously suggesting that Contador has bigger possibilities to win OVERALL than Degenkolb has of fluking a stage win somewhere along this horribly designed, sprinter-friendly route? I know he isn't impressive, but come on. Thats just.. yeah.

Yes. In my opinion, contador is the third most likely winner and degenkolb has at least 5 sprinters better than him (and I'm not counting cav). Degenkolb won't have a team supporting him, many sprinters like demare, kittel, greipel, sagan will...

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

No, suggesting that Degenkolb shouldn't ride is pretty fan boyish honestly. Degenkolb has much greater chances of winning a stage than Contador has as the Tour.

lol, his best chance is stage 3 and he will get beaten by at least Sagan and Matthews..

Degenkolb has 10 chances or so to win a stage, its completely nonsensical to suggest Contador's chances of winning overall are greater. But whatever dude, whatever floats your boat.

It's true that Degenkolb is more likely to win a stage than Contador to win gc. But the thing is, if Contador only gets 3rd (and that isn't so unlikely) it would still be a more important achievement than if Degenkolb gets a stage. That said, I think it's okay if Degenkolb is part of the team. When Sagan was in Contadors team in 2015 he was there to win stages but also was a very valuable helper for Contador, especially in the first week. Therefore if Degenkolb doesn't ride completely egoistically he could be a decent addition for Contador's team and has a small chance to win stages too.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Are all of you guys seriously suggesting that Contador has bigger possibilities to win OVERALL than Degenkolb has of fluking a stage win somewhere along this horribly designed, sprinter-friendly route? I know he isn't impressive, but come on. Thats just.. yeah.

What's the last time Degenkolb beat any of Kittel, Greipel, Cavendish, Sagan and the likes in a flat sprint?

The best way for Trek to ride a good Tour is to check if Contador is up for it and if he isn't go for breakaway stages while Contador desperately tries to get away with something acceptable for himself.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Are all of you guys seriously suggesting that Contador has bigger possibilities to win OVERALL than Degenkolb has of fluking a stage win somewhere along this horribly designed, sprinter-friendly route? I know he isn't impressive, but come on. Thats just.. yeah.

Yes. In my opinion, contador is the third most likely winner and degenkolb has at least 5 sprinters better than him (and I'm not counting cav). Degenkolb won't have a team supporting him, many sprinters like demare, kittel, greipel, sagan will...

But you fail to realise Contador essentially have 1 chance to win, where as a sprinter has 10. So despite Degenkolb is worse relatively to his competitors, he will still have better chances. Its simple math.

 

[TheYouyou7]

Re: Re:

No, suggesting that Degenkolb shouldn't ride is pretty fan boyish honestly. Degenkolb has much greater chances of winning a stage than Contador has as the Tour.

lol, his best chance is stage 3 and he will get beaten by at least Sagan and Matthews..

Degenkolb has 10 chances or so to win a stage, its completely nonsensical to suggest Contador's chances of winning overall are greater. But whatever dude, whatever floats your boat.

Seriously, are you this stupid ? everybody knows that even in top shape, Degenkolb can't win a mass sprint if there are no crashes etc...

Contador's chances, as per the collective wisdom, are about 1/15. If you can tell me I get 15 times or more my money back if Degenkolb wins a stage in this Tour, where he has about 10 possibilities (!!), I'd place a good chunk of my money on that.

But it obviously comes down to how you guys rate his chances of winning. Which, needless to say, generally would be a lot higher than the objective or unbiased cycling fan, betting-man or whatever.

He already had 40ish possiblities to do so, he never achieved it. I'm confident that he won't this year either.

 

[portugal11]

Valv piti, we are not saying that contador will win. We all know that his chances are very slim but I think a degenkolb, without help in all those sprint stages, won't even fight for the win. The guy is not same since his horrible crash

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Are all of you guys seriously suggesting that Contador has bigger possibilities to win OVERALL than Degenkolb has of fluking a stage win somewhere along this horribly designed, sprinter-friendly route? I know he isn't impressive, but come on. Thats just.. yeah.

What's the last time Degenkolb beat any of Kittel, Greipel, Cavendish, Sagan and the likes in a flat sprint?

The best way for Trek to ride a good Tour is to check if Contador is up for it and if he isn't go for breakaway stages while Contador desperately tries to get away with something acceptable for himself.

That may be true, but thats not my argument. My argument is its ludicrous so argue Contador has greater chances of winning than Degenkolb has of a single stage and Im pretty sure you know that.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I honestly think that Mollema definitely should be in the team. His big weakness seems to be recovery since he always fades at the end of a gt, but as a domestique he can rest on a few days to be at his best at a few specific mountain stages and in those stages he could be an incredible helper.

Although I hate to say it, because I think he's a certainty for the team, I really don't see it. The guy has never in his career had to work for someone else. I just don't see him as a committed, loyal domestique. Before the Giro I read an interview (don't remember now if it was a newspaper or a magazine) and he didn't really sound happy to be going to the Giro instead of the Tour. Sounded more like he would have preferred the Tour but "that's what you get when you have two big GC men & the team decides in the end".
And I'm not just doubting his commitment, I just don't think he has it in him. I expect some half-hearted pulls à la Catalunya with him secretly hoping Contador fails and he gets freedom to go for a stage.
I desperately hope I'm wrong because as I said, I can't see him not on the team unless he's 'tired' (like Majka in 2014).

Also, I definitely expect Gogl to ride the tour. He gave an interview to the ORF two weeks ago in which he is absolutely sure that he'll go to France in July.
http://sport.orf.at/stories/2274350/

Of course that still could change but since Gogl has been quite good so far this season and because Contador and he seem to get along with each other very well I don't think it will

That makes me happy. Gogl really deserves a spot on the team. Hopefully it'll be instead of Mollema or De Kort and not Irizar or Cardoso.

As portugal11 said, De Kort gets along well with Berto so I don't doubt his loyalty. But I don't see him as a rider that can guide Berto through the peloton for hours on end, so I'd rather see an additional rouleur in his position (Brändle/Irizar/Rast).

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Are all of you guys seriously suggesting that Contador has bigger possibilities to win OVERALL than Degenkolb has of fluking a stage win somewhere along this horribly designed, sprinter-friendly route? I know he isn't impressive, but come on. Thats just.. yeah.

What's the last time Degenkolb beat any of Kittel, Greipel, Cavendish, Sagan and the likes in a flat sprint?

The best way for Trek to ride a good Tour is to check if Contador is up for it and if he isn't go for breakaway stages while Contador desperately tries to get away with something acceptable for himself.

That may be true, but thats not my argument. My argument is its ludicrous so argue Contador has greater chances of winning than Degenkolb has of a single stage and Im pretty sure you know that.

I didn't say that Contador was more likely. I said Trek has a bigger shot at winning from a breakaway than Degenkolb. Degenkolb's chances at winning a stage from a sprint are so small they should be largely irrelevant to Trek regardless of how big Contador's chances are.

I think that for Degenkolb there's a high degree of confidence that the odds are very small. For Contador the uncertainty is greater.

The only argument for bringing Degenkolb isn't his sprinting but the fact that he's the German star rider in a German Grand Depart in a year that Germany is finally broadcasting the Tour again.

 

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

Are all of you guys seriously suggesting that Contador has bigger possibilities to win OVERALL than Degenkolb has of fluking a stage win somewhere along this horribly designed, sprinter-friendly route? I know he isn't impressive, but come on. Thats just.. yeah.

Yes. In my opinion, contador is the third most likely winner and degenkolb has at least 5 sprinters better than him (and I'm not counting cav). Degenkolb won't have a team supporting him, many sprinters like demare, kittel, greipel, sagan will...

But you fail to realise Contador essentially have 1 chance to win, where as a sprinter has 10. So despite Degenkolb is worse relatively to his competitors, he will still have better chances. Its simple math.

I already get your point but betting sites say that porte and froome are equal favourites to win le tour. Do you really think this is logic?
If froome falls, contador's chances will increase massively