Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[rhubroma]

It is pointless to speculate over his form, the TT and first ascent have demonstrated that it isn't good enough. If that is "yet" or not, this weekend will tell. However, given it's the Tour, and not the Vuelta, where does he bar a feat make up this gap? And feats in the Tour are much harder to come by, especially without the form.

 

[rune1107]

Anyone think he has been taking it to easy in June? I feel like he thought he had to take a different approach, but perhaps it has backfired. Anyway, as you say we will see in the weekend.

 

[No_Balls]

Re:

I think the possibility of a shorter peak (taking into age and such) was weighted in and led up to the current approach. If he started with all guns blazing it could also backfire so i think they have tried to set up circumstances that would demand a limited peak but yet enough to be a major factor.

I recall he faded somewhat at the end of the Giro which he won two years ago with a similar approach so plenty of things must have been learned from that.

 

[Leinster]

At the Giro he had little to no team support in the later kms of most high mountain stages, so had to take on the whole Astana team on his own. By the final couple of stages he was just limiting losses to Aru and Landa, but did that pretty well.

He was 2 years younger then, and had the advantage of a big cushion from the very long TT stage.

In short, I wouldn't take many lessons from that Giro to apply to this Tour. They are very different races with different opposition, even if Aru and Landa will both be important players in this race.

 

[veganrob]

Re: Re:

if it rains on sunday I think Contador will lose a lot of time in that descent ...

Depends. Maybe Froome won't want to risk everything on the descent either, after all he's already in pole position.

Froome apparantly has no fear so I doubt it.

The day he crash hard this fearless will be over for good.

And THAT, is a true statement.

 

[movingtarget]

This weekend a lot of questions get answered for all of the GC riders and the gaps start to open.

 

[benzwire]

I hate to say it, but I have a bad feeling that he will lose significant time this weekend. Something doesn't seem right, like he's not there physically and he and everyone around him seem to give the impression, just a less than confident feeling. I really hope it's not true, but I am going into this weekend expecting the worst. At least that way I won't be disappointed. Does anyone else feel that way? I'm just not getting any sense that he had some kind of hidden form that will put time into his rivals.

 

[gregrowlerson]

I am VERY slack with my cycling DVD's and haven't bought any for ages (though I do have the '07 and '09 Tours)!

Where can you buy cycling dvds? I want the 2017 Giro! I make my own from dvr recordings. But I only had the Giro streaming (Fubo TV) this year so I couldn't make one.

To make your own is smart. I am too lazy for that

You can usually buy extended highlight DVD's of all the TDF's, though unfortunately not of one week races. I have most of the TDF's from the 2000-09 period, though none since (wouldn't mind 2011 for the last couple of mountain stages). Also have the '06 Vuelta, '05 and '06 Giro. Wanted to get the '08 Giro but never found a DVD version, although it is now up on youtube.

 

[cellardoor]

I hate to say it, but I have a bad feeling that he will lose significant time this weekend. Something doesn't seem right, like he's not there physically and he and everyone around him seem to give the impression, just a less than confident feeling. I really hope it's not true, but I am going into this weekend expecting the worst. At least that way I won't be disappointed. Does anyone else feel that way? I'm just not getting any sense that he had some kind of hidden form that will put time into his rivals.

Yes, unfortunately I agree. I just don't see any good reason to think he's going to improve on what we've seen. As we all know, Contador just isn't someone who improves much during a race....what we see on the first mountain stage is indicative of how his whole race will be. To be honest, I think he'll have a hard time finishing top 5 with this form. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[Leinster]

I think the concern must be that if he's going down the Conta-diesel path, while it's all well and good setting your own pace and sticking to it, sooner or later you're going to need some wheels to sit in/extra legs to work with, or you're just burning matches riding on your own while the Sky Train/BMC Express/Astanawagon rumbles off into the distance.

 

[Climber123]

Did Bertie not get stronger towards the end of Vuelta 2014 (relative to the others)?

 

[cellardoor]

Did Bertie not get stronger towards the end of Vuelta 2014 (relative to the others)?

That's a bit different as he was returning from an injury. Even then I don't remember him being that bad at any point in that race.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Did Bertie not get stronger towards the end of Vuelta 2014 (relative to the others)?

Not relative to Froome he didn't.

 

[RedheadDane]

(Moving this over from the Froome thread, since I thought it kinda made more sense here...)

Why can't you accept that more than one person can be awesome?
Contador has 2x5 year periods which most others would absolutely kill for -
first period 2007-2001 = 6 GT wins consecutively before the sucky 5th at the Tour
second period 2012 - 2016 = 3 GT wins, 2 4th places and a 5th.
That being said although Froome has only won the same number of GT's in this period, his other results are much better, and even if they wern't 3 TDF trumps Contadors 3 GT's by a significant margin based on prestige, competition and level of dominance.
You can go on about the romance of the Giro all you want, but the FA cup is romantic, and the world cup is a corporate whores wet dream, what do you think most people would rather win?

Really?

 

[rhubroma]

Did Bertie not get stronger towards the end of Vuelta 2014 (relative to the others)?

Not relative to Froome he didn't.

Well I think he had more in the tank when it mattered, unlike this Tour so far.

Can't see him gaining in form. Makes me wonder what he thought he was still capable of, for it seems unlikely he'd have wanted to go out like this.

 

[ad9898]

As I said on Wednesday, the key day was that climb at the end. Although he only lost a few seconds, somehow it seemed far worse than that. Quotes since then have reinforced this. I'm one of his biggest fans and I have trouble letting go of the era when he could just turn up and destroy everyone with style and panache.

I know what's going to happen over the next few days and deep down his other big fans on this thread know it too. I hope he'll animate the race at some point and I'm sure he will. The issue is he has never pulled back 50 secs plus on Froome at any point where they've raced together and it's highly and I mean highly unlikely he's going to be able to do it now.

We just have to face up to the fact that just like Merckx, Hinault, Lemond and Indurain father time catches up and calls it a day on a great career. I think he can possibly win a Giro/Vuelta but this race and the Tour in general is now beyond him. We all need to accept this

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

I think the concern must be that if he's going down the Conta-diesel path, while it's all well and good setting your own pace and sticking to it, sooner or later you're going to need some wheels to sit in/extra legs to work with, or you're just burning matches riding on your own while the Sky Train/BMC Express/Astanawagon rumbles off into the distance.

He won't have an issue following the trains. It's the attacks that bother him and by pushing his own pace he isn't burning more matches than the attacker(s).

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

The issue is he has never pulled back 50 secs plus on Froome at any point where they've raced together

Yes he has....

 

[LaFlorecita]

I agree with others that I have this feeling something isn't quite right and that he's going to lose a lot of time on stage 9. From his interviews it sounds like he's already accepted he isn't going to win. Hope I'm wrong but if it's true hopefully he can help Aru win
Also after this weekend the team should decide what to do - still everything behind Alberto or each for their own?

 

[ad9898]

Re: Re:

The issue is he has never pulled back 50 secs plus on Froome at any point where they've raced together

Yes he has....

Has he ? Well I stand corrected but what I meant is when Froome has been in front of him on GC I can't think of a time when Alberto has overcome him from that kind if deficit. Like I say though I stand corrected if that's happened, as it doesn't come to mind

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

The issue is he has never pulled back 50 secs plus on Froome at any point where they've raced together

Yes he has....

Has he ? Well I stand corrected but what I meant is when Froome has been in front of him on GC I can't think of a time when Alberto has overcome him from that kind if deficit. Like I say though I stand corrected if that's happened, as it doesn't come to mind

There are several occasions but I guess they're not the most obvious. Both in GTs and minor stage races.
But something I was thinking about yesterday, has Froome ever lost a GT leader's jersey? I don't think he has, much like Alberto. So we should apply the same to Froome - he is very hard to beat when he's defending. I guess the only difference is that for Froome it's also for a big part down to his team so if they seem weak there's an opportunity.

 

[gregrowlerson]

So much doom and gloom in this thread.

Brighten up people! Alberto is still in with a chance here; let's try and be at least a little positive until he isn't!

I am more excited than terrified about this weekend.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

So much doom and gloom in this thread.

Brighten up people! Alberto is still in with a chance here; let's try and be at least a little positive until he isn't!

I am more excited than terrified about this weekend.

Agreed except that nothing about this Tour is exciting to me just going through the motions

 

[bob.a.feet]

Re: Re:

The issue is he has never pulled back 50 secs plus on Froome at any point where they've raced together

Yes he has....

Has he ? Well I stand corrected but what I meant is when Froome has been in front of him on GC I can't think of a time when Alberto has overcome him from that kind if deficit. Like I say though I stand corrected if that's happened, as it doesn't come to mind

There are several occasions but I guess they're not the most obvious. Both in GTs and minor stage races.
But something I was thinking about yesterday, has Froome ever lost a GT leader's jersey? I don't think he has, much like Alberto. So we should apply the same to Froome - he is very hard to beat when he's defending. I guess the only difference is that for Froome it's also for a big part down to his team so if they seem weak there's an opportunity.

Froome briefly held the red jersey in the 2011 Vuelta.

 

[perico]

On phone, so can't translate for here, but he sounds good here:

https://ciclismo.as.com/ciclismo/2017/07/08/tour_francia/1499511451_605746.html