Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[LaFlorecita]

In recent years he got a much more muscular upper body, which looks rather problematic. I guess it mainly has to do with Bjarne's obsession for core stability (I'm pretty sure Alberto never exceptionally worried about that kind of stuff in the past) which, IMO, hasn't brought Contador anything good. Just as with trying to get rid of 'the saddle sliding' it hasn't helped him to improve his TT.

Interesting... yes it is a lot of extra weight he has to carry arouns, and that sure as hell doesn't help his climbing

 

[Nilsson]

2012 Vuelta doesn't really count as that form wouldn't have been enough for a TDF podium, either.

I beg to differ. I'm pretty sure his 2012 Vuelta level was, at least, as good as Nibbles third placing in the Tour. Not to say definitely stronger. The power numbers in that Vuelta were pretty high, he did a good TT, was eager and able to attack and show a divers and confident riding style (although, because of lacking race toughness a very strong Rodriguez and Froome-driven tactics at first, he wasn't able to bring his efforts home most of the time).

 

[LaFlorecita]

he will meet the Dawg in T-A yes? That will probably bring me back down to earth again.. but Im pretty confident this season is going to be better than last.

It will be a sobering experience that's for sure... I just hope he won't get his *** kicked too hard.

I hope he can win Pais Vasco, that would be nice, though I don't know who else will ride it.

 

[Granville57]

In recent years he got a much more muscular upper body

Can you blame him?

 

[Red Rick]

Can you blame him?

That's awesome

 

[ferryman]

Interesting... yes it is a lot of extra weight he has to carry arouns, and that sure as hell doesn't help his climbing

Calm. Not paper thin but thin. All on track.

 

[greenedge]

Froome





Quintana


Porte



Jrod

Nibali
Papy Horner

Valverde
Kreuziger

Contador

Hmmm looks quite a bit like Hitch's list

Meanwhile vetooo has calculated Contador's power output: 6.93W/kg

Man,I know its hard to compare,but put Porte almost at the same level as Quintana is ridiculous.
Nairo beat Porte in Vasco and in TdF he was clearly better rider too.
And Nibali is way too low.

I would not have had JROD over Nibali- Nibali dominated at a few races and still placed higher than JROD at the Vuelta.

But Porte beat Nairo at P-N (the rest of your point is valid though)

 

[Fzotrlool]

Froome



Quintana


Horner

Nibali
J-Rod
Valverde
Porte


Kreuziger
Contador

Urán


My top 10. I have included their perfomances in the Worlds and hilly one-day races as Lombardy and Liege.

 

[The Hitch]

Man,I know its hard to compare,but put Porte almost at the same level as Quintana is ridiculous.
Nairo beat Porte in Vasco and in TdF he was clearly better rider too.

And Porte beat Quintana in Paris Nice, and far easier than Quintana did Porte in Pais Vasco at that

Using TDF is dumb. Ryo Hazuki logic. Quintana targeted gc, Porte was a domestique.

Porte on Ax 3 however was something out of this world. He was laughing at the other riders, doing track stands to let them catch up then dropping them again.

You can say Quintana couldnt match him because he went on Paiheres, fair enough, but Porte didnt just beat everyone, he beat everyone, despite being a domestique who was pulling and then doing trackstands. He had so so much left in the tank.

On Alpe he lost a minute to Quintana but again he was taking it so easy, talking to Froome every 2 seconds dropping back for feed then coming back to Froome.

 

[The Hitch]

Lol @ where you have placed Nibali. Just a tiny bit better than Valverde, and clearly worse than both Purito and Porte. Ridiculous.

Why is it ridiculous?

With Porte and Purito we saw them set great times in the TDF against great competition, Porte while taking it easy.

With Nibali he won a Giro that was totally ruined by the weather so what can we read into that. People have been hyping his performance there as if it was on par with Froome on something but how the **** can anyone reach conclusions from that. First 3 mountains he was marginally better than the others. Of course he seemed to be holding back on 2 of them but since he didnt go full out we can't tell how strong he may have been.

Then on the tt that was powerful, but what was the competition.

If you take the entire top 10 and compile me the best results of any of them in the mountains outside of this Giro over the last 2 years. Evans has a 3rd in PDBF. Uran 1 or 2 good top 5s in the 2012 Giro. Santa a few good ones from this year and he matched Nibali before things happened . Thats about it.

Then theres Tre Cime. He beat them but again, were any that strong? Duarte was even in the mix. He beat Di Luca's time by a few secs but the variables (worse conditions but much easier stage and rest day before) were so different its hard to read too much into that comparison.

From that or Trentino even how on earth are we meant to tell he was Porte level?

Maybe he was but if its a maybe i dont get why you are dismissing the idea that he wasn't as ridiculous.

I dont think the evidence exists either way so I look back to Nibali and I think Nibali 2010,11, and 12 versions would all have won the 2013 Giro, maybe 09 version too so i dont think its that ridiculous to assume he's a similar rider, with some improvements to his previous version and that guy never showed the kind of climbing Porte and Purito did last year. You and other Nibali fans assume he stepped up and went to their level. That's fine but until this years tour, its just an assumption.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I beg to differ. I'm pretty sure his 2012 Vuelta level was, at least, as good as Nibbles third placing in the Tour. Not to say definitely stronger. The power numbers in that Vuelta were pretty high, he did a good TT, was eager and able to attack and show a divers and confident riding style (although, because of lacking race toughness a very strong Rodriguez and Froome-driven tactics at first, he wasn't able to bring his efforts home most of the time).

We don't have his power numbers, though, and the TT wasn't flat. He did good TTs in the 2013 Tour, as well. Both of them were good. The first flat TT, as well. It depends on so many different things, but maybe the rest of the field stepped up? Maybe not, but you can't rule it out, as the level was very high.

It certainly was a good ITT, though. Even that one. It's unreasonable IMO to expect that he'll starts TTing faster than the likes of Porte this year, but I think that's essentially what you're saying, as the gap between him and Contador was significant, but still relatively small.

As for the Vuelta, climbing times have been very high there for years now. It's to be expected with the short and light (mountain) stages. Not much can be drawn from that vs Nibali, so it's anyone's guess. Yours is certainly as valid as mine.

 

[Cimber]

In recent years he got a much more muscular upper body, which looks rather problematic. I guess it mainly has to do with Bjarne's obsession for core stability (I'm pretty sure Alberto never exceptionally worried about that kind of stuff in the past) which, IMO, hasn't brought Contador anything good. Just as with trying to get rid of 'the saddle sliding' it hasn't helped him to improve his TT.

Indeed. Have been thinking the same thing. His upper body is way to big nowadays.

 

[TearMeApart]

I beg to differ. I'm pretty sure his 2012 Vuelta level was, at least, as good as Nibbles third placing in the Tour. Not to say definitely stronger. The power numbers in that Vuelta were pretty high, he did a good TT, was eager and able to attack and show a divers and confident riding style (although, because of lacking race toughness a very strong Rodriguez and Froome-driven tactics at first, he wasn't able to bring his efforts home most of the time).

I would question that. Very likely, Nibali showed his highest level in the 2012 Tour so far. IMO he was stronger even than in the Giro. So you offer to even best Nibali's ever level and Contador, who anyway wasn't prepared really well but was the freshest from all the contenders [freshness actually allowed him to win]. It's quite doubtful.

Indeed. Have been thinking the same thing. His upper body is way to big nowadays.

Age? No one can be equally slim at 24 and 30. It's age-related process.

 

[Netserk]

Age? No one can be equally slim at 24 and 30. It's age-related process.

Tell that to Horner.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I would question that. Very likely, Nibali showed his highest level in the 2012 Tour so far. IMO he was stronger even than in the Giro.

I think so, too. He faded toward the end though, but the Tour is a much harder race in practice. It's typical of him to fade in a serious GT. Expect the same this year, regardless of his actual level.

(Yeah, I know he sustained an injury in the Pyrenees.)

 

[TearMeApart]

I think so, too. He faded toward the end though, but the Tour is a much harder race in practice. It's typical of him to fade in a serious GT. Expect the same this year, regardless of his actual level.

(Yeah, I know he sustained an injury in the Pyrenees.)

I think it was semibluff from him too to say about the injury. At the beginning Nibali had done his strongest stage to Bagneres-de-Luchon. the day after Liquigas lined ip as soldiers on Bales to show activity and a bit later Nibali lost a little little bit of ground at Peyragudes which was absolutely in connotation of his then strength in that Tour. For Contador and Nibali I would rank their perfomances this way:

Contador:

TdF 07
TdF 09
Giro 11

Nibali:

TdF 12
Giro 13
Vuelta 10 (though he was roughly equally fit both at the Giro 10 and Vuelta 13 too).

 

[Cimber]

“It was a very important week for me in terms of getting in shape through races like these and I felt better for each day. At this point of the season in 2013, I also had a high level in the Tour of Oman finishing second and I had two stage wins within reach. But this year I’ve been doing a better job through the winter and I have a good feeling. I’m really happy with this way of working,” he (EDIT: Contador) concludes.

 

[Cimber]

Age? No one can be equally slim at 24 and 30. It's age-related process.

Wiggins, Horner? A lot of riders get better in GCs at a later age really.

But regarding Contaor its not really all about slim vs fat. Its more that you can see that is arms and upper body is much more muscular (guessing from all that core training)

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I think it was semibluff from him too to say about the injury. At the beginning Nibali had done his strongest stage to Bagneres-de-Luchon. the day after Liquigas lined ip as soldiers on Bales to show activity and a bit later Nibali lost a little little bit of ground at Peyragudes which was absolutely in connotation of his then strength in that Tour. For Contador and Nibali I would rank their perfomances this way:

Contador:

TdF 07
TdF 09
Giro 11

Nibali:

TdF 12
Giro 13
Vuelta 10 (though he was roughly equally fit both at the Giro 10 and Vuelta 13 too).

Yeah, I was going to put "injury" in quotes, but that probably wouldn't be fair. But yes, I'm not sure if it hampered his performance that much.

“It was a very important week for me in terms of getting in shape through races like these and I felt better for each day. At this point of the season in 2013, I also had a high level in the Tour of Oman finishing second and I had two stage wins within reach. But this year I’ve been doing a better job through the winter and I have a good feeling. I’m really happy with this way of working,” he (EDIT: Contador) concludes.

His level in Oman last year was at least as high, IMO. Probably higher because it was his second stage race. He attacked several times on the Green Mountain, IIRC, which cost him a bit in the end. Similar to Prati di Tivo last year, or Col d'Aubisque even, back in 2007. That will continue to be a problem for him, I think. When he's not the best climber in the race he still attacks and ends up losing more time than necessary.

Apart from the "mountain" stages in T-A, the TT is also of particular interest to me. IMO the TT gap between Kwaitkowski and Contador has only widened, even if Kwiatek was on better form in Algarve. Now, if Contador could land a top 10 in the TT there he's certainly made progress on that front.

 

[LaFlorecita]

But perhaps it's better to compare his time to those of Martin, Malori and Dowsett, who are a little older and not extreme talents still on the rise.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

But perhaps it's better to compare his time to those of Martin, Malori and Dowsett, who are a little older and not extreme talents still on the rise.

I didn't directly compare his Algarve TT to that of Kwiatkowski (or Martin), though, because Algarve was still early days and Kwiatkowski was probably better prepared, as mentioned. Martin has struggled with his form so far this season, so I wouldn't read too much into that, either.

Many riders will have reached a good level by mid March, though, so in that respect I think the TT in T-A will be of particular interest. It has the same length as last year, as well.

Anyway, I prefer to compare riders against the entire field, not just against their generation. But yes it makes sense that Kwiatkowski is better than last year. Many here seem to feel the same way about Contador. Hitch had him going from ninth best GT specialist last year to a clear second this year, well ahead of super talent Quintana, so that should be reflected in his results at some point.

 

[TearMeApart]

But perhaps it's better to compare his time to those of Martin, Malori and Dowsett, who are a little older and not extreme talents still on the rise.

And what conclusion can you make by comparing his time to Martin's and Dowsett's ones?

 

[LaFlorecita]

And what conclusion can you make by comparing his time to Martin's and Dowsett's ones?

That it was a rather good TT

TA 2013 ITT, 9.2km
1 Martin 10'25"
2 Malori +0'06"
10 Dowsett +0'23"
17 Contador +0'30"
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=24110

 

[LaFlorecita]

And what conclusion can you make by comparing his time to Martin's and Dowsett's ones?

That it was a rather good TT

T-A 2013 ITT, 9.2km
1 Martin 10'25"
2 Malori +0'06"
10 Dowsett +0'23"
17 Contador +0'30"
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=24110

Algarve 2014, 13.6km
2 Malori +0'10"
3 Martin +0'12"
4 Contador +0'19"
5 Dowsett +0'24"
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=25664

 

[Jelantik]

“It was a very important week for me in terms of getting in shape through races like these and I felt better for each day. At this point of the season in 2013, I also had a high level in the Tour of Oman finishing second and I had two stage wins within reach. But this year I’ve been doing a better job through the winter and I have a good feeling. I’m really happy with this way of working,” he (EDIT: Contador) concludes.

what does he try to say? his form is now as good as oman, but he got better base form than last year? hence he's feeling better with his form this year.

It's going to be a tough fight for him at TA. I'm sure Froome will try to suffocate him from any chance of winning. (whether it's a stage or overall).