Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Electress]

For me what makes contador special is not the quantity of wins but how he races. There is no point in having 10 GT victories if they are all ugly and boring. Cycling should be beautiful and exciting, I think Contador nails both of these traits in his riding.

I so agree. Although, winning lots and lots beautifully is even better. I love that the best in the business is NOT just a disciplined, focussed athlete but someone who also exudes passion for his sport and a willingness to take risks and live with the consequences. It gives me optimism that 'success' is about something more than a kind of relentless and joyless ubermensch-organised-will-to-power ethos.

Must say I do care about the 'lost' GTs. And I suspect so does AC. I suspect he also cares about winning more, since he's a competitive bloke and he'd hardly be racing if he didn't give a toss, would he? But whether he'll still care enough two/three years from now, to train as hard as is required on those rainy winter evenings when he could be playing with his dogs (or wife !). That's another matter. For one reason and another, I've known a few Olympic athletes and their lives, frankly, seemed pretty crap to me. Decades of that would get very, very wearing. (But that's probably why I am very very far from an elite athlete)

And let's be optimistic, La Flo. since it's Christmas and the time of good will to all men and all that.... Endurance athletes are supposed to live longer than ordinary mortals and the life expectancy being what it is, Contador can expect to live into his 80s…Hell, I fully intend to be around and on my bike, and I can give him more than a couple of years. Where there's a will….as I think some bike rider bloke once said after coming out of a coma.

(What was that Christmas message you posted? Can I expect to see A.C instead of The Queen on at 3 pm on Christmas Day? I'm getting a bit concerned at the reach of Oleg Tinkoff's PR… )

BTW - Anyone here ridden the Haute Route by any chance?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Must say I do care about the 'lost' GTs. And I suspect so does AC. I suspect he also cares about winning more, since he's a competitive bloke and he'd hardly be racing if he didn't give a toss, would he?

Of course, I think all his fans would like to see him with 2 more GT wins officially on his palmares. But repeating that notion over and over again will not change anything about it.

But whether he'll still care enough two/three years from now, to train as hard as is required on those rainy winter evenings when he could be playing with his dogs (or wife !). That's another matter. For one reason and another, I've known a few Olympic athletes and their lives, frankly, seemed pretty crap to me. Decades of that would get very, very wearing. (But that's probably why I am very very far from an elite athlete)

That is probably the reason Alberto wants to retire in a couple years. No doubt he'll be able to continue physically, but I think it just gets harder and harder to motivate himself.

And let's be optimistic, La Flo. since it's Christmas and the time of good will to all men and all that.... Endurance athletes are supposed to live longer than ordinary mortals and the life expectancy being what it is, Contador can expect to live into his 80s…

Of course... I was just trying to show that 50 years is a very long time, and we'll all be old... don't think any of us including Alberto will give a damn.

Hell, I fully intend to be around and on my bike, and I can give him more than a couple of years. Where there's a will….as I think some bike rider bloke once said after coming out of a coma.

(What was that Christmas message you posted? Can I expect to see A.C instead of The Queen on at 3 pm on Christmas Day? I'm getting a bit concerned at the reach of Oleg Tinkoff's PR… )

He usually sends out a Christmas message on youtube... not sure if he will this year but I think so

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBVLrGU7Q1Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMWbdjOyLfk

 

[Electress]

Of course, I think all his fans would like to see him with 2 more GT wins officially on his palmares. But repeating that notion over and over again will not change anything about it.

Nope - but absolutely nothing on this forum actually changes anything!!! Anyway, I don't mean to stir things up so 'nuff said on that topic.

That is probably the reason Alberto wants to retire in a couple years. No doubt he'll be able to continue physically, but I think it just gets harder and harder to motivate himself.

As someone who is not very competitive (at least in sports), this will to win for the Nth time in a row is the thing which bemuses me more than perhaps anything about any sportsmen. I get the wanting the first really big win. The first time you win any one of the GTs shows you can do it. But after that? I never understood what made Lance want Number 5, 6, 7 of the same old Tour when he could have tried for something different. Mixed it up a bit.

I think if I had any talent at all I'd be a James Hunt kind of character…do it once and never feel the need to rise to the same challenge again. But then, I don't have the talent so I shall never be wracked with the what-might-have-been-if-only-I-hadn't-been-lazy-and-unmotivated.

Of course... I was just trying to show that 50 years is a very long time, and we'll all be old... don't think any of us including Alberto will give a damn.

Not trying to be disagreeable, (or sound patronising - so forgive me if I do) but I think as one gets older, (not that I'm that much older than AC, but still) wondering what the hell 'it' has all been about and what you've done with your six score years and ten becomes increasingly important. That legacy stuff has an annoying way of creeping up on you when you realise that the clock really is ticking for you and not just those 'old people'...

What you thought was important, however, may well change…Maybe I'll know more in a few years after I have my mid-life-crisis…

If I'm honest, I like to think he'll try to achieve other things, and at 35, he'll have the time and energy to do that. Hell, he's still got time to retrain to be a vet if that's what he fancied. Better that than sitting around reliving past glories.

He usually sends out a Christmas message on youtube... not sure if he will this year but I think so

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBVLrGU7Q1Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMWbdjOyLfk

Oh Lord. Just when I think I can't like the guy much more, I find out he does something like this and manages not to sound like an arrogant twerp doing it. Dammit.

 

[sir fly]

Looks like the female readers have decided the winner

Nibali voted best rider in Cyclingnews Reader Poll 2014
1 Vincenzo Nibali 24.41%
2 Alberto Contador 22.30%
3 Michal Kwiatkowski 14.31%
4 Alejandro Valverde 08.68%
5 Marianne Vos 08.31%
6 Marcel Kittel 05.96%
7 Nairo Quintana 04.59%
8 Simon Gerrans 04.41%
9 Pauline Ferrand Prevot 03.70%
10 Lizzie Armitstead 03.32%

Contador voted best male rider in Cyclingnews Reader Poll
1 Alberto Contador 32.56%
2 Vincenzo Nibali 23.88%
3 Michal Kwiatkowski 12.10%
4 Alejandro Valverde 8.79%
5 Marcel Kittel 6.82%
6 Nairo Quintana 6.18%
7 Simon Gerrans 4.40%
8 John Degenkolb 2.06%
9 Alexandre Kristoff 1.75%
10 Andre Greipel 1.46%

 

[LaFlorecita]

Looks like Nibali isn't male then.

Not sure what the female readers have got to do with it. Surely male and female readers could both vote in both polls.

 

[Electress]

Looks like the female readers have decided the winner

Sir Fly, I genuinely do not understand your logic.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Now someone pointed out to me that the real reason for the difference is probably that July fans would vote for Nibali in both polls, while fans who watched the entire season would vote for Contador as best male rider, but some of those fans might have voted for some female riders in the rider of the year poll. Because July fans probably don't follow women's cycling.

 

[sir fly]

Sir Fly, I genuinely do not understand your logic.

Marianne Vos' presence improve's Nibali's percentage the most, and knocks Contador's down behind it.

 

[Electress]

Now someone pointed out to me that the real reason for the difference is probably that July fans would vote for Nibali in both polls, while fans who watched the entire season would vote for Contador as best male rider, but some of those fans might have voted for some female riders in the rider of the year poll. Because July fans probably don't follow women's cycling.

Sounds reasonable. But not, I think, what was being implied. But I await enlightenment.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Marianne Vos' presence improve's Nibali's percentage the most, and knocks Contador's down behind it.

Indeed. Although I'm wouldn't say it's a sure thing all votes for Vos came from female readers.

The funny thing is that, objectively, Vos wasn't even the best female rider this year (Ferrand-Prevot definitely)

 

[Electress]

Marianne Vos' presence improve's Nibali's percentage the most, and knocks Contador's down behind it.

What does that have to do with the gender of the voter? Or did you mean to say fans of womens' cycling ?

 

[sir fly]

What does that have to do with the gender of the voter? Or did you mean to say fans of womens' cycling ?

You think Marianne's results, rather than the gender, moderated the results in such unequal way?

 

[cineteq]

Looks like the female readers have decided the winner

Actually, it makes even clear that => best rider >> best male rider. Best male rider is just a popularity contest. Thanks

What does that have to do with the gender of the voter? Or did you mean to say fans of womens' cycling ?

Fanboy or fangirl logic?

 

[LaFlorecita]

You think Marianne's results, rather than the gender, moderated the results in such unequal way?

That is a good point, actually.

 

[Electress]

You think Marianne's results, rather than the gender, moderated the results in such unequal way?

I was trying understand your logic and the underlying implications of your post. I still don't.

From the vote, it is clear that relatively A.C. lost a higher number of votes than other male riders to Vos and other female riders in the best cyclist poll. I am interested in what this tells you about the gender of those who voted.

The degree to which one voter changing their vote between those polls (for whatever reason) affects the % is very dependent on the number of voters. Small no. of voters = one person is a big % swing.

Cineteq: Why would fanboys and girls and 'non-fan-girl/boy fans' not vote in both polls?

 

[Carols]

In an interview with El Pais, Alberto has indicated he is focussing on the Giro-Tour double, but the GT triple motivates him a lot and he might still ride la Vuelta.

OMG be still my beating heart. Of course we all know he would try if he takes down the double, he is who he is That is why we love him so!

 

[Carols]

Marianne Vos' presence improve's Nibali's percentage the most, and knocks Contador's down behind it.

Ah, it makes sense, at least to me. AC best male, but when it becomes best rider some AC votes are given to Vos but the Nibali voters stay put so he ends up with more.

 

[sir fly]

I was trying understand your logic and the underlying implications of your post. I still don't.

From the vote, it is clear that relatively A.C. lost a higher number of votes than other male riders to Vos and other female riders in the best cyclist poll. I am interested in what this tells you about the gender of those who voted.

The degree to which one voter changing their vote between those polls (for whatever reason) affects the % is very dependent on the number of voters. Small no. of voters = one person is a big % swing.

Cineteq: Why would fanboys and girls and 'non-fan-girl/boy fans' not vote in both polls?

Consider the both polls had equal number of votes. The poll couldn't have been completed without voting in the both.

 

[Electress]

Ah, it makes sense, at least to me. AC best male, but when it becomes best rider some AC votes are given to Vos but the Nibali voters stay put so he ends up with more.

Yes. I understand this. What I don't understand is what Sir Fly implies this says about the gender of the voter. And why.

Having the same no. of voters doesn't say anything about the % shift. Small no of overall voters still = big shift in % with one vote migrating between riders.

 

[sir fly]

Yes. I understand this. What I don't understand is what Sir Fly implies this says about the gender of the voter. And why.

It's the gender what moderates the results.

 

[Electress]

It's the gender what moderates the results.

How do you know this? Is any information given about the gender of the voters?

 

[Carols]

Of course... I was just trying to show that 50 years is a very long time, and we'll all be old... don't think any of us including Alberto will give a damn.

Alas I will long be dust when you live those 50 years. So I won't be around when you say 'Oh I understand what she meant!'

Despite the CN fan poll Alberto was the best rider of 2014. Future generations will acknowledge it.

Peace on Earth and on CN .

 

[sir fly]

How do you know this? Is any information given about the gender of the voters?

Certain degree of Contador's femininity has been lost by introduction of Vos to the poll.

 

[Publicus]

Looks like the female readers have decided the winner

so female votes shouldn't count as much as male votes? and how do you know the gender of the voters? is that posted somewhere?

 

[Electress]

Certain degree of Contador's femininity has been lost by introduction of Vos to the poll.

I assume what you are trying to say is that a proportion of Contador's female fans have chosen Vos in the overall poll. How could you know that?

I mean, its a nice assumption in a way, Sir Fly, as I suppose it reflects well on us girls who like A.C., suggesting we appreciate the talent of the riders of both genders. Plus, perhaps, aren't so stuck on one rider as other fanbases might be? It's a nice thought, but honestly, I’m not sure that you can make that leap from the data available.

I mean, isn't it just as possible that a proportion of Contador's male fans, or both male and female fans, also appreciate womens' cycling? Indeed, I would guess (a guess, I'll admit) that there are significantly more male fans of cycling than women, so you might assume that the latter is more likely given that there is a significant % shift between the polls.

Unless there is something else I'm missing?