Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Carols]

Let's put it this way he was better than I expected, so that is a step in the right direction. Let's see how he does on stage 5. Hopefully better!

When Nibs won on Green Mountain my day was made anyway .

 

[Matteo.]

Agree. After the " yesterday' disaster" , it's a good result achieved today.
Now we will see on Malhao

 

[rhubroma]

I'm not focused upon Sky. It's just that certain metamorphoses by the Murdoch sponsored enterprise make my stomach churn.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

I'm not focused upon Sky. It's just that certain metamorphoses by the Murdoch sponsored enterprise make my stomach churn.

You're not alone. But I can deal with it better when I focus on the riders I like and ignore the Sky robots. Maybe it works for you too

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

I'm not focused upon Sky. It's just that certain metamorphoses by the Murdoch sponsored enterprise make my stomach churn.

You're not alone. But I can deal with it better when I focus on the riders I like and ignore the Sky robots. Maybe it works for you too

I am focusing on other riders, but they keep getting beaten by Sky. There's no escape.

 

[dacooley]

if i were you guys i'd try to convince myself that sky boys are anyway entitled to beat bertie in my hierarchy of values otherwise it really aches to watch.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

if i were you guys i'd try to convince myself that sky boys are anyway entitled to beat bertie in my hierarchy of values otherwise it really aches to watch.

Perhaps you should not tell us what we should do and what we should think.

 

[Carols]

Re:

I'm not focused upon Sky. It's just that certain metamorphoses by the Murdoch sponsored enterprise make my stomach churn.

I understand completely. Makes me think it is the turn of the century or something.

But I'll enjoy the riders I like and the sport I love regardless!

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

I'm not focused upon Sky. It's just that certain metamorphoses by the Murdoch sponsored enterprise make my stomach churn.

I understand completely. Makes me think it is the turn of the century or something.

But I'll enjoy the riders I like and the sport I love regardless!

The fact that Thomas isn't their top-Dawg makes me curious about the actual state of his form. That is perhaps right now he's at a higher level than even Froome. If that isn't the case, then it will certainly be an uphill battle for Contador this season, if his margin for improvement isn't quite large.

 

[Miburo]

It's not good, even worse than yesterday imo

Yesterday you can blame it on a bad day, or whatever the excuse was but now he underperformed again. Twice in a row? That's just not a good sign

Losing so much on G Thomas? The best Contador is a better ITT than Thomas, it just wasn't good. And it doesn't look like we'll see Contador 2014

I'll keep supporting him, but i'm being realistic and knowing how Contador's beginning of the season is always very telling, i don't think it'll be a good year for him. Hopefully i'm wrong

 

[BlurryVII]

What bothers me is that even his Algarve TT in 2014 was supreme, he was 4th in a flat short route IIRC.

Anyways, let's not give any significance to his results in Algarve for now, maybe he's really getting into rhythm.
However, if he does poor in Paris Nice, then you can ring the bells. I'll just conclude it'll be an empty season, no hopes or anything by then.

 

[Jspear]

Re:

What bothers me is that even his Algarve TT in 2014 was supreme, he was 4th in a flat short route IIRC.

Anyways, let's not give any significance to his results in Algarve for now, maybe he's really getting into rhythm.
However, if he does poor in Paris Nice, then you can ring the bells. I'll just conclude it'll be an empty season, no hopes or anything by then.

This exactly. Sure in years past when he's been good in the late season he's also been good in the early season, but things could change with age. For once things might be different. He still might get into excellent shape. At least wait till his second race.

 

[BlurryVII]

Alright, take it as reassuring or not, here's a good comparison with Alberto's current performance: Algarve 2011.

In 2011, he also started the season skinnier than he usually looks like (look up pictures), he finished behind Cummings and Van Garderen on Malhao and disappointing 15th place (!!) in the ITT, 45 seconds off Tony Martin.
Finished 4th overall.

He was then imperial in Tour de Murcia, uphill and crushed the TT with an impressive performance. And the rest is history.

 

[rhubroma]

I'll say this again, Aru said at the last race that the guys are flying for this time of the year and that they were going even faster up the climbs than at last year's Vuelta. Strange how every year they go faster, when the sport is supposed to have changed. But this isn't the point.

Perhaps Contador is suffering from the lack of racing his main rivals had during an exceptionally blistering start to the year. Even Nibali, who smashed it today, sat up on the first climb in Argentina, but has obviously significantly improved since then.

It's true that Contador usually starts out rather well, but he hasn't raced since the Tour and is a year older. Today was only "poor" because the likes of a Pinot was faster, but by only one second. A minute 10 circa isn't disasterous against a flying Cancellara on a flat parcours. I'd say Froome would have lost 30-40 seconds, so it's possible AC can step up his game. The climbing will have to go way up come Paris-Nice though me thinks.

What's most disturbing is G. Thomas's prowess. Magical Sky I guess.

 

[cantpedal]

Re:

It's not good, even worse than yesterday imo

Yesterday you can blame it on a bad day, or whatever the excuse was but now he underperformed again. Twice in a row? That's just not a good sign

Losing so much on G Thomas? The best Contador is a better ITT than Thomas, it just wasn't good. And it doesn't look like we'll see Contador 2014

I'll keep supporting him, but i'm being realistic and knowing how Contador's beginning of the season is always very telling, i don't think it'll be a good year for him. Hopefully i'm wrong

Even in 2014 he wasn't dominate / great (for him) lost to Kwia - Volta ao Algarve, Rodriguez - Volta a Catalunya Talansky in Critérium du Dauphiné with an unusually bad tactical decision, ---TDF his crash/ injury,

I think the idea he had a great year that year is mostly derived from him beating an injured / crashed (both TDF and Dauphiné) Froome. Froome never looked 100% that whole year.

For any other rider that would be a great year for AC maybe good year

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

It's not good, even worse than yesterday imo

Yesterday you can blame it on a bad day, or whatever the excuse was but now he underperformed again. Twice in a row? That's just not a good sign

Losing so much on G Thomas? The best Contador is a better ITT than Thomas, it just wasn't good. And it doesn't look like we'll see Contador 2014

I'll keep supporting him, but i'm being realistic and knowing how Contador's beginning of the season is always very telling, i don't think it'll be a good year for him. Hopefully i'm wrong

Even in 2014 he wasn't dominate / great (for him) lost to Kwia - Volta ao Algarve, Rodriguez - Volta a Catalunya Talansky in Critérium du Dauphiné with an unusually bad tactical decision, ---TDF his crash/ injury,

I think the idea he had a great year that year is mostly derived from him beating an injured / crashed (both TDF and Dauphiné) Froome. Froome never looked 100% that whole year.

For any other rider that would be a great year for AC maybe good year

Well I guess AC saying he was never in as good a form as at the start of that Tour means nothing then.

He also put on one of the greatest performances at TA, droping Quintana, catching the break and soloing for the win.

Froome overtaxed himself trying to drop AC on the first MTF at the Dauphine. The crash broke him more mentally than physically imo.

Then AC smashed the Vuelta on equal terms with Froome, both having crashed out of the Tour.

No, overall he had astonishing form in 2014.

 

[Electress]

I've had a look at the tea leaves, checked my crystal ball and waved a couple of crystals, and they say…

Honestly, I just don't think you can read anything into three days. Maybe he's tired. Maybe he's old. Maybe he's too thin. Maybe he's overtrained. Maybe he's bluffing. Maybe he's building more slowly. Who knows? We're probably putting more effort into the analysis than he is!

I've decided I'm just going to enjoy whatever the hell Berto brings to this season. Might be the last chance, so bring on the full, unalloyed, joyous roller coaster coz when he's retired, for me at least, its all going to be a whole lot less interesting.

 

[cantpedal]

Re: Re:

It's not good, even worse than yesterday imo

Yesterday you can blame it on a bad day, or whatever the excuse was but now he underperformed again. Twice in a row? That's just not a good sign

Losing so much on G Thomas? The best Contador is a better ITT than Thomas, it just wasn't good. And it doesn't look like we'll see Contador 2014

I'll keep supporting him, but i'm being realistic and knowing how Contador's beginning of the season is always very telling, i don't think it'll be a good year for him. Hopefully i'm wrong

Even in 2014 he wasn't dominate / great (for him) lost to Kwia - Volta ao Algarve, Rodriguez - Volta a Catalunya Talansky in Critérium du Dauphiné with an unusually bad tactical decision, ---TDF his crash/ injury,

I think the idea he had a great year that year is mostly derived from him beating an injured / crashed (both TDF and Dauphiné) Froome. Froome never looked 100% that whole year.

For any other rider that would be a great year for AC maybe good year

Well I guess AC saying he was never in as good a form as at the start of that Tour means nothing then.

He also put on one of the greatest performances at TA, droping Quintana, catching the break and soloing for the win.

Froome overtaxed himself trying to drop AC on the first MTF at the Dauphine. The crash broke him more mentally than physically imo.

Then AC smashed the Vuelta on equal terms with Froome, both having crashed out of the Tour.

No, overall he had astonishing form in 2014.

Equal terms? not sure how you determine that. We never saw those big 20 - 30 minute surges we see from Froome when he's in top form that whole year.
I'm not saying it wasn't a great year by any standards other then those he set himself. I think he'd trade that year for any he had from 2007 through 2010

More in line with his 2011 year

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Alright, take it as reassuring or not, here's a good comparison with Alberto's current performance: Algarve 2011.

In 2011, he also started the season skinnier than he usually looks like (look up pictures), he finished behind Cummings and Van Garderen on Malhao and disappointing 15th place (!!) in the ITT, 45 seconds off Tony Martin.
Finished 4th overall.

He was then imperial in Tour de Murcia, uphill and crushed the TT with an impressive performance. And the rest is history.

Was a different story though cause he got cleared only 24 hours before the start of Algarve. So didn't have time to prepare.

 

[dacooley]

my 2 cents. bertie had been dominating for the whole 2014 season, however he just outplayed froome in the 2014 vuelta while they were at quite comparable level. 'smashed' is the actual definition for the 2009 tour or the 2011 giro, not for the 2014 vuelta. that's a matter of wording, though. as to for now i think he conceals something from us. probably he's been sick recently and is forced to recover his conditions straight in the race. either way he'll be very good come paris-nice, i wager.

 

[cantpedal]

Re:

One has to wonder how smart Tinkoff tactics are at times. They seem to regularly burn themselves out doing a lot of work, when it's perhaps not always necessary. I recall them doing that a lot in last year's Giro. Then Contador is usually left isolated too early. Sounds like that happened yesterday. Plus it sounds like he then also hit the front for much too long on the penultimate climb and sorta burnt himself out. Agree with the people saying he really ought to just be following wheels, conserving energy and sussing out the opposition at this stage. And also not making the team overwork.

Assuming It's Yates calling the shots. never been impressed with him
Cavendish and Froome don't think to highly of him

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

It's not good, even worse than yesterday imo

Yesterday you can blame it on a bad day, or whatever the excuse was but now he underperformed again. Twice in a row? That's just not a good sign

Losing so much on G Thomas? The best Contador is a better ITT than Thomas, it just wasn't good. And it doesn't look like we'll see Contador 2014

I'll keep supporting him, but i'm being realistic and knowing how Contador's beginning of the season is always very telling, i don't think it'll be a good year for him. Hopefully i'm wrong

Even in 2014 he wasn't dominate / great (for him) lost to Kwia - Volta ao Algarve, Rodriguez - Volta a Catalunya Talansky in Critérium du Dauphiné with an unusually bad tactical decision, ---TDF his crash/ injury,

I think the idea he had a great year that year is mostly derived from him beating an injured / crashed (both TDF and Dauphiné) Froome. Froome never looked 100% that whole year.

For any other rider that would be a great year for AC maybe good year

Well I guess AC saying he was never in as good a form as at the start of that Tour means nothing then.

He also put on one of the greatest performances at TA, droping Quintana, catching the break and soloing for the win.

Froome overtaxed himself trying to drop AC on the first MTF at the Dauphine. The crash broke him more mentally than physically imo.

Then AC smashed the Vuelta on equal terms with Froome, both having crashed out of the Tour.

No, overall he had astonishing form in 2014.

Equal terms? not sure how you determine that. We never saw those big 20 - 30 minute surges we see from Froome when he's in top form that whole year.
I'm not saying it wasn't a great year by any standards other then those he set himself. I think he'd trade that year for any he had from 2007 through 2010

More in line with his 2011 year

Froome looked just as prepared for the 2014 Tour as other years at the start of the race. Contador said he never had better form as then. We were deprived of the spectacle, alas, however, all the rest being equal after the crashes, Contador showed he was better at the Vuelta, both in the TT and on the climbs.

But neither was in top shape.

As far as AC is presently concerned, I think Paris-Nice should give a better indication as to whether or not this will be a vintage year. Still, it would be even better if Thomas or Froome or Nibali were there.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

One has to wonder how smart Tinkoff tactics are at times. They seem to regularly burn themselves out doing a lot of work, when it's perhaps not always necessary. I recall them doing that a lot in last year's Giro. Then Contador is usually left isolated too early. Sounds like that happened yesterday. Plus it sounds like he then also hit the front for much too long on the penultimate climb and sorta burnt himself out. Agree with the people saying he really ought to just be following wheels, conserving energy and sussing out the opposition at this stage. And also not making the team overwork.

Assuming It's Yates calling the shots. never been impressed with him
Cavendish and Froome don't think to highly of him

It's De Jongh.

 

[BlurryVII]

Re: Re:

Alright, take it as reassuring or not, here's a good comparison with Alberto's current performance: Algarve 2011.

In 2011, he also started the season skinnier than he usually looks like (look up pictures), he finished behind Cummings and Van Garderen on Malhao and disappointing 15th place (!!) in the ITT, 45 seconds off Tony Martin.
Finished 4th overall.

He was then imperial in Tour de Murcia, uphill and crushed the TT with an impressive performance. And the rest is history.

Was a different story though cause he got cleared only 24 hours before the start of Algarve. So didn't have time to prepare.

He obviously prepared in the winter regardless. He wasn't doing nothing while waiting for the decision.

But also good to notice how he progressed onwards after Algarve

 

[LaFlorecita]