Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Decent result today. Nearly blew himself up, but limited his losses well in the end. With Valverde out of the picture, there looks to be a great opportunity for 3rd. He should take plenty of time on Yates and Chaves in the TT. Konig is a bit of a concern now though - if he sacrifices himself for Froome then Contador should really make the podium.

It's not like Chaves is a horrible time trialist. He did a fairly good one in Burgos last year.

Contador doesn't show massive progression. Not at all. And Chaves is riding stronger and stronger.

Sure, it's still not going to be easy for Contador. But if he can ride himself into something like his Basque form of earlier this year, he should be looking to take some time out of both the Orica guys. I can't think of any reason why Contador should be losing form at this stage in the race; should still be gaining in fitness and he's been no weaker than Chaves/Yates up to now. He probably would be third now if he hadn't tried ridiculous attacks and trying to follow Froome/Quintana a couple of times earlier in the race. PLus of course the TTT didnt help.

Well, you can't say Chaves is likely to lose fitness either. He said before this Vuelta his intention was to be good in the third week. It looks his words are becoming reality.

I agree about Yates. He's still young and inexperienced. And he could suffer tomorrow from his monster ride today. Contador could profit from that and his own (good) level. But he needs to stop focussing on Froome and Quintana. Those two guys are a class above anyone else.

Fair point; Chaves certainly seems to be growing into the race. From today as well, it doesn't look like Orica are just going to sit and quietly hope that they finish in a good position.

Agree, Contador certainly needs to let Quintana and Froome go; surely even he will have realised that now. I guess the question is whether they will be happy to give him some freedom to attack and battle for third - they might still think he is too dangerous to give any hope to.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I guess the question is whether they will be happy to give him some freedom to attack and battle for third - they might still think he is too dangerous to give any hope to.

Of course they won't give him any freedom whatsoever. That should be obvious by now. Even at the Tour last year when he was like 10 minutes behind their teams immediately chased him down.
As for the comments that he should let Froome and Quintana go - that's nonsense. Look where the other guys in the top 10 finished compared to Froome and Quintana. All riders in top-15 will try to follow for as long as possible - if Contador let's them ride away, he will lose minutes even to those riders. On the contrary, trying to go with them is his best chance of gaining time.
Not that I think he should fight for 3rd at all, but that's just my opinion.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

Decent result today. Nearly blew himself up, but limited his losses well in the end. With Valverde out of the picture, there looks to be a great opportunity for 3rd. He should take plenty of time on Yates and Chaves in the TT. Konig is a bit of a concern now though - if he sacrifices himself for Froome then Contador should really make the podium.

It's not like Chaves is a horrible time trialist. He did a fairly good one in Burgos last year.

Contador doesn't show massive progression. Not at all. And Chaves is riding stronger and stronger.

Sure, it's still not going to be easy for Contador. But if he can ride himself into something like his Basque form of earlier this year, he should be looking to take some time out of both the Orica guys. I can't think of any reason why Contador should be losing form at this stage in the race; should still be gaining in fitness and he's been no weaker than Chaves/Yates up to now. He probably would be third now if he hadn't tried ridiculous attacks and trying to follow Froome/Quintana a couple of times earlier in the race. PLus of course the TTT didnt help.

Well, you can't say Chaves is likely to lose fitness either. He said before this Vuelta his intention was to be good in the third week. It looks his words are becoming reality.

I agree about Yates. He's still young and inexperienced. And he could suffer tomorrow from his monster ride today. Contador could profit from that and his own (good) level. But he needs to stop focussing on Froome and Quintana. Those two guys are a class above anyone else.

Fair point; Chaves certainly seems to be growing into the race. From today as well, it doesn't look like Orica are just going to sit and quietly hope that they finish in a good position.

Agree, Contador certainly needs to let Quintana and Froome go; surely even he will have realised that now. I guess the question is whether they will be happy to give him some freedom to attack and battle for third - they might still think he is too dangerous to give any hope to.

I suggested that he go for the podium earlier in this week and I was told 'Contador only goes for the win" plus I was angry and badly brought to suggest so

Some one called Rob_Roy

]Well,people that finds joy in badmouthing a biker in a thread dedicated to that biker I pity.I cant belive that their parents raised them that way,to find joy in teasing others,irritating others just to get a kick out of it. ..

And by someone called Electress that my posts were

comes across rather as sneering to me.

Well Electress you come across as as condescending

I was rather suggesting that rather than chase a mythical win he accept the status quo and go for the podium in this Vuelta..which he is rapidly losing out on by trying to stick to Quintana & Foome who's form are a cut above

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I suggested that he go for the podium earlier in this week and I was told 'Contador only goes for the win"

It's just the truth, pal. Why do you think he's never finished 2nd or 3rd in a GT before? It's always 1st or besides the podium.

 

[LaFlorecita]

The Tinkoff leader summed up the final climb from the finish. “I tried to sit with Froome and Quintana, but the changes in rhythm and pace made it hard to follow them. On the other hand, it wasn’t that difficult to follow the other riders. Maybe people will find this surprising, but I’m feeling well. I focussed on Froome and Quintana and for a long time I was riding easily with them, but there were a lot of attacks from dangerous riders that I also had to control – because only for me they were dangerous and not for them.”

With riders going slow on the Aubisque, Alberto found it hard to find a good rhythm. “When Chaves attacked, we were going really slow. The way we rode up the climb didn’t really suit me – we had many slow moments and when Chaves attacked, we were really, really, really slow, so it was hard for me to accelerate. The truth is that I felt well and I attacked, but that was only to change the rhythm and to switch to a constant climbing pace. I tried to have a stable power output so that the riders that were ahead of me couldn’t go, but at the end I wasn’t able to get to the finish with Nairo and Froome.”

 

[DFA123]

Re:

The Tinkoff leader summed up the final climb from the finish. “I tried to sit with Froome and Quintana, but the changes in rhythm and pace made it hard to follow them. On the other hand, it wasn’t that difficult to follow the other riders. Maybe people will find this surprising, but I’m feeling well. I focussed on Froome and Quintana and for a long time I was riding easily with them, but there were a lot of attacks from dangerous riders that I also had to control – because only for me they were dangerous and not for them.”

With riders going slow on the Aubisque, Alberto found it hard to find a good rhythm. “When Chaves attacked, we were going really slow. The way we rode up the climb didn’t really suit me – we had many slow moments and when Chaves attacked, we were really, really, really slow, so it was hard for me to accelerate. The truth is that I felt well and I attacked, but that was only to change the rhythm and to switch to a constant climbing pace. I tried to have a stable power output so that the riders that were ahead of me couldn’t go, but at the end I wasn’t able to get to the finish with Nairo and Froome.”

So he is concerned about finishing as high as possible. All those posts about going for 1st or nothing were nonsense.

 

[Inquitus]

Re:

Decent result today. Nearly blew himself up, but limited his losses well in the end. With Valverde out of the picture, there looks to be a great opportunity for 3rd. He should take plenty of time on Yates and Chaves in the TT. Konig is a bit of a concern now though - if he sacrifices himself for Froome then Contador should really make the podium.

It could have been much worse if Quintana and Froome didn't come to a grinding halt every time Nairo's attacks were neutralised, if they had kept a hard tempo instead of stopping he would have shipped a lot of time you'd think, he doesn't really seem to have recovered fully from the Tour as he is a much better rider than he is showing this Vuelta, even if he doesn't seem to have what it takes to beat Quintana or Froome in a GT these days.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

So he is concerned about finishing as high as possible. All those posts about going for 1st or nothing were nonsense.

To win, you have to beat everyone, including Chaves, König and Yates. Those riders aren't a threat to Froome and Quintana because they are far ahead, however, Contador was behind or just in front of those riders, so of course he had to limit his losses to them. In the unlikely event Froome and Quintana fade, he doesn't want to have to make up 3 minutes on Chaves, Yates and König

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

So he is concerned about finishing as high as possible. All those posts about going for 1st or nothing were nonsense.

To win, you have to beat everyone, including Chaves, König and Yates. Those riders aren't a threat to Froome and Quintana because they are far ahead, however, Contador was behind or just in front of those riders, so of course he had to limit his losses to them. In the unlikely event Froome and Quintana fade, he doesn't want to have to make up 3 minutes on Chaves, Yates and König

That's ridiculous, and I'm pretty sure you know it is. He's fighting for third.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Decent result today. Nearly blew himself up, but limited his losses well in the end. With Valverde out of the picture, there looks to be a great opportunity for 3rd. He should take plenty of time on Yates and Chaves in the TT. Konig is a bit of a concern now though - if he sacrifices himself for Froome then Contador should really make the podium.

It could have been much worse if Quintana and Froome didn't come to a grinding halt every time Nairo's attacks were neutralised, if they had kept a hard tempo instead of stopping he would have shipped a lot of time you'd think, he doesn't really seem to have recovered fully from the Tour as he is a much better rider than he is showing this Vuelta, even if he doesn't seem to have what it takes to beat Quintana or Froome in a GT these days.

Completely agree. Froome and Quintana could have been at least a minute faster. It doesn't seem like Alberto is improving which is surprising. As you say, he might not have been fully recovered before the start because he is better than this. He should at least be able to beat Sammy Sanchez, Simon Yates and Leopold König but he's really struggling. At times he looks good but it seems he is lacking stamina.

 

[yaco]

Re:

Simon is indeed better than his brother but I'd expect Quintana to take time on both Yates and Chaves in the TT for reference

Quintana will definitely do a better TT than Yates and Quintana.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

So he is concerned about finishing as high as possible. All those posts about going for 1st or nothing were nonsense.

To win, you have to beat everyone, including Chaves, König and Yates. Those riders aren't a threat to Froome and Quintana because they are far ahead, however, Contador was behind or just in front of those riders, so of course he had to limit his losses to them. In the unlikely event Froome and Quintana fade, he doesn't want to have to make up 3 minutes on Chaves, Yates and König

That's ridiculous, and I'm pretty sure you know it is. He's fighting for third.

So in that case, why does he continuously attempt to follow Froome and Quintana? You just said he should stop doing that and fight for 3rd instead. It's contradicting.
You have to make a decision for what reason you'll criticize him: either you can argue he's too proud and stuck-up, he should be more humble and fight for third, or you can argue his mantra of "only the win counts" is only for show and he is actually racing for third. You can't have both.

 

[Inquitus]

Re: Re:

Simon is indeed better than his brother but I'd expect Quintana to take time on both Yates and Chaves in the TT for reference

Quintana will definitely do a better TT than Yates and Quintana.

I am looking forward to seeing Quintana beat himself on Friday! (assume you meant Yates and Chaves)

He will beat Chaves, but I think Yates as the better TT'er of the Yates pair might give Nairo a run for his money.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

So he is concerned about finishing as high as possible. All those posts about going for 1st or nothing were nonsense.

To win, you have to beat everyone, including Chaves, König and Yates. Those riders aren't a threat to Froome and Quintana because they are far ahead, however, Contador was behind or just in front of those riders, so of course he had to limit his losses to them. In the unlikely event Froome and Quintana fade, he doesn't want to have to make up 3 minutes on Chaves, Yates and König

That's ridiculous, and I'm pretty sure you know it is. He's fighting for third.

So in that case, why does he continuously attempt to follow Froome and Quintana? You just said he should stop doing that and fight for 3rd instead. It's contradicting.
You have to make a decision for what reason you'll criticize him: either you can argue he's too proud and stuck-up, he should be more humble and fight for third, or you can argue his mantra of "only the win counts" is only for show and he is actually racing for third. You can't have both.

His mantra isn't 'only the win counts'. That's some ridiculous mantra that some of his fans have given him. He clearly is fighting for third, which is the right decision. Let's hope he has the guts and humility to battle until the end of the race, rather than giving up when the going gets tough.

Right now, finally, it seems like he has accepted he can't compete with the very best and is adjusting his strategy to be the best of the rest. A good decision, imo.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

So he is concerned about finishing as high as possible. All those posts about going for 1st or nothing were nonsense.

To win, you have to beat everyone, including Chaves, König and Yates. Those riders aren't a threat to Froome and Quintana because they are far ahead, however, Contador was behind or just in front of those riders, so of course he had to limit his losses to them. In the unlikely event Froome and Quintana fade, he doesn't want to have to make up 3 minutes on Chaves, Yates and König

That's ridiculous, and I'm pretty sure you know it is. He's fighting for third.

So in that case, why does he continuously attempt to follow Froome and Quintana? You just said he should stop doing that and fight for 3rd instead. It's contradicting.
You have to make a decision for what reason you'll criticize him: either you can argue he's too proud and stuck-up, he should be more humble and fight for third, or you can argue his mantra of "only the win counts" is only for show and he is actually racing for third. You can't have both.

His mantra isn't 'only the win counts'. That's some ridiculous mantra that some of his fans have given him. He clearly is fighting for third, which is the right decision. Let's hope he has the guts and humility to battle until the end of the race, rather than giving up when the going gets tough.

Right now, finally, it seems like he has accepted he can't compete with the very best and is adjusting his strategy to be the best of the rest. A good decision, imo.

I need one of the really die hard AC fans to confirm this for me, but....hasn't AC made this claim himself? I'm pretty sure he has.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

I need one of the really die hard AC fans to confirm this for me, but....hasn't AC made this claim himself? I'm pretty sure he has.

I think he said something similar last year about only wanting to do the Giro, Tour double if he believed he could win them both. So perhaps it was a very time specific mantra - which, fortunately, he has decided to abandon now.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

His mantra isn't 'only the win counts'. That's some ridiculous mantra that some of his fans have given him.

You really don't know him, do you? Check his comments throughout the race. Check his teammates' comments. Check Steven de Jongh's comments. Check Ivan Basso's comments. It's clear he only aims for the win, it's not something his fans have made up.

He clearly is fighting for third, which is the right decision. Let's hope he has the guts and humility to battle until the end of the race, rather than giving up when the going gets tough.

Right now, finally, it seems like he has accepted he can't compete with the very best and is adjusting his strategy to be the best of the rest. A good decision, imo.

I feel you're still contradicting yourself. At times, you've said he always takes the easy road and attacks from far because he doesn't "have the guts and humility" to fight for the podium. At other times you say he's fighting for the podium. Now you've put both viewpoints in one post. Surely you agree he can't both
a) lack the humility and guts to fight for the podium so he goes on suicide attacks instead;
and b) not actually have an "all or nothing" attitude and secretly fight for third anyway
?
If he lacks the guts and humility to fight for a top-5 or podium and would rather attack from far out and throw away his position, surely that means he does not want to fight for the podium, which surely means he has an "all-or-nothing" attitude?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I need one of the really die hard AC fans to confirm this for me, but....hasn't AC made this claim himself? I'm pretty sure he has.

He has, many times, and also the people around him, teammates etc.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Simon is indeed better than his brother but I'd expect Quintana to take time on both Yates and Chaves in the TT for reference

Quintana will definitely do a better TT than Yates and Quintana.

I am looking forward to seeing Quintana beat himself on Friday! (assume you meant Yates and Chaves)

He will beat Chaves, but I think Yates as the better TT'er of the Yates pair might give Nairo a run for his money.

Nah, Quintana is a decent TTist himself, especially for his size

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I need one of the really die hard AC fans to confirm this for me, but....hasn't AC made this claim himself? I'm pretty sure he has.

I think he said something similar last year about only wanting to do the Giro, Tour double if he believed he could win them both. So perhaps it was a very time specific mantra - which, fortunately, he has decided to abandon now.

Does this quote "the second place is not good" ring a bell? It was even in my signature on here for a very long time.
Also
"Maybe we cannot win, but if we don't try, we can never know this"

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

His mantra isn't 'only the win counts'. That's some ridiculous mantra that some of his fans have given him.

You really don't know him, do you? Check his comments throughout the race. Check his teammates' comments. Check Steven de Jongh's comments. Check Ivan Basso's comments. It's clear he only aims for the win, it's not something his fans have made up.

He clearly is fighting for third, which is the right decision. Let's hope he has the guts and humility to battle until the end of the race, rather than giving up when the going gets tough.

Right now, finally, it seems like he has accepted he can't compete with the very best and is adjusting his strategy to be the best of the rest. A good decision, imo.

You're still contradicting yourself. At times, you've said he always takes the easy road and attacks from far because he doesn't "have the guts and humility" to fight for the podium. At other times you say he's fighting for the podium. Now you've put both viewpoints in one post. Surely you agree he can't both
a) lack the humility and guts to fight for the podium so he goes on suicide attacks instead;
and b) not actually have an "all or nothing" attitude and secretly fight for third anyway
?
If he lacks the guts and humility to fight for a top-5 or podium and would rather attack from far out and throw away his position, surely that means he does not want to fight for the podium, which surely means he has an "all-or-nothing" attitude?

It's quite simple. At times in the past I think he has lacked the guts and humility to fight for the podium. Although in 2015 Tour, he was also certainly trying to place as high as possible.

This year, it looks like he has finally accepted he is not among the very elite, and is battling for a podium. Which, as I have said, I commend him for. He hasn't put in a ridiculous, doomed long range attack yet - and seems more content to limit his losses and try to edge out the rest into 3rd place.

There's no contradiction here. Contador has accepted he can't compete with the best any more; hopefully his fans will soon follow and support him in his attempts to finish 3rd.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

I need one of the really die hard AC fans to confirm this for me, but....hasn't AC made this claim himself? I'm pretty sure he has.

I think he said something similar last year about only wanting to do the Giro, Tour double if he believed he could win them both. So perhaps it was a very time specific mantra - which, fortunately, he has decided to abandon now.

Does this quote "the second place is not good" ring a bell? It was even in my signature on here for a very long time.
Also
"Maybe we cannot win, but if we don't try, we can never know this"

As I mentioned above, that is the past. Right now, barring crashes, he knows and we know that he can't win. Quite rightly he's changed his aims.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

I think AC looked alright today. In hindsight he should have gone with Chaves, when he sneaked away. Right now he just is not in a good enough shape to follow the Colombia n and Kenyan. The chances of reaching podium looks okay. Chaves/Yates will not be a big problem, the way I see it, but König is a much better time trialist. I still hope for a stage win rather than a podium, though...

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I need one of the really die hard AC fans to confirm this for me, but....hasn't AC made this claim himself? I'm pretty sure he has.

I think he said something similar last year about only wanting to do the Giro, Tour double if he believed he could win them both. So perhaps it was a very time specific mantra - which, fortunately, he has decided to abandon now.

Does this quote "the second place is not good" ring a bell? It was even in my signature on here for a very long time.
Also
"Maybe we cannot win, but if we don't try, we can never know this"

As I mentioned above, that is the past. Right now, barring crashes, he knows and we know that he can't win. Quite rightly he's changed his aims.

You're shifting the goalposts so much. First you said the "only the win counts" mantra, is just something his fans made up, then I pointed out he's voiced that mantra himself many times, even during this race, and now you say that he abandoned that mantra very recently (as recent as a day or three ago?)

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

I need one of the really die hard AC fans to confirm this for me, but....hasn't AC made this claim himself? I'm pretty sure he has.

I think he said something similar last year about only wanting to do the Giro, Tour double if he believed he could win them both. So perhaps it was a very time specific mantra - which, fortunately, he has decided to abandon now.

Does this quote "the second place is not good" ring a bell? It was even in my signature on here for a very long time.
Also
"Maybe we cannot win, but if we don't try, we can never know this"

As I mentioned above, that is the past. Right now, barring crashes, he knows and we know that he can't win. Quite rightly he's changed his aims.

You're shifting the goalposts so much. First you said the "only the win counts" mantra, is just something his fans made up, then I pointed out he's voiced that mantra himself many times, even during this race, and now you say that he abandoned that mantra very recently (as recent as a day or three ago?)

This thread is about Contador, not me, so let's get back to topic.

I'm discussing how he has re-shifted his aims to finish 3rd - he even hinted at that by saying he had to take responsibility to chase down riders, because they weren't a threat to Froome or Quintana, only to him.

What may or may not have been his mantra, clearly no longer applies. So do you think he can sneak into third, or will the Orica duo be too strong?