Alberto Contador suspended until August 2012 (loses all results July 2010 - Jan 2012)

[Winternet_]

My post was in response to another poster saying that s/he'd never believe Contador was doping unless Contador confessed. I wrote that there was more evidence than just the clen that Condador was doping, ie I wasn't talking only about the clen. So yes, I reiterate, the clen is not "the only" evidence that Contador was doping, but like your murder weapon/defendant analogy, it is one bit of evidence.

Care to explain these other evidences you talk about?

 

[Benotti69]

You should care. If a bag of cocaine would appear in your house, wouldn't you care how it got there? Or would you accept that you are guilty just because it was there and it didn't belong?

Would you wait nearly 2 months after finding it to speak out?

Li Fuyu was told that they found a bag of coke in his house before he even got home.

 

[spalco]

You should care. If a bag of cocaine would appear in your house, wouldn't you care how it got there? Or would you accept that you are guilty just because it was there and it didn't belong?

Of course I would care, but the judge damn well won't and neither probably will anybody else.

 

[VeloCity]

Care to explain these other evidences you talk about?

Saiz? OP? Refusing the DNA test? Franke? Now clenbuterol. All circumstantial when taken alone, but like with Armstrong, it all starts to add up after a while.

 

[Winternet_]

Would you wait nearly 2 months after finding it to speak out?

Li Fuyu was told that they found a bag of coke in his house before he even got home.

The UCI only informed Alberto late-August. That's not his fault.

 

[MarkvW]

There was no evidence. Whatsoever. The only evidence is the existence of traces of clenbuterol in his body. It's like the only evidence in a murder case is the fact that they found the murder weapon with the defendant. That's not enough to make a conviction (except in our beloved sport, of course).

More than anything else, this demonstrates the relative powerlessness of the riders. Any kind of antidoping rule can be forced on them because they will never do anything about it. If the riders are not going to do anything about it, I'm certainly not going to worry on their behalf because I'd rather see a clean(er) race, even if it means a few riders crying in their whiskey, with their twins, while eating Spanish beef and wondering where that plasticizer came from! I remember the '70s and '80s when US track athletes would present the dumbest-sounding excuses for how dope got in their bodies. I'm glad those days are gone.

 

[The Hitch]

he didn't just sign a few autographs and took off to celebrate he spent like 12 hours in a club doing it while he had every right to do what every other player did and say "hey guys we can do this any other day let me have a nice time with my mates to celebrate our victory" i am not saying he is some sort of reborn jesus just saying he is a nice guy.

but this is wildly off topic anyway . . .

And Im saying signing autographs to people who believe you are the 2nd coming is a very unpleasant experience. Probably way more enjoyable than getting smashed in Kapital with morons like Casilias and Hernandez.

 

[Winternet_]

Of course I would care, but the judge damn well won't and neither probably will anybody else.

But, if no explanation for why that bag was in house or if you were aware of its existence or if you did anything wrong with it was proven, I guarantee you that you would not receive max punishment for it.

 

[The Hitch]

By all means, show me the posts were I acted all righteous and stuff?

You are saying he cheated, he deserves it, etc, which is what I was reffering to.

 

[Winternet_]

Saiz? OP? Refusing the DNA test? Franke? Now clenbuterol. All circumstantial when taken alone, but like with Armstrong, it all starts to add up after a while.

All dismissed or considered irrelevant by the panel. No bearing in the case.

Edit: Oh, and writing single words (even two-letter ones) is hardly called explaining.

 

[Walkman]

You are saying he cheated, he deserves it, etc, which is what I was reffering to.

Actually I don't think I have said anything like that in this thread, wich is why I asked you to show it to me.

I have just questioned some of the posts in this thread, making the posters explain themselves.

So again, please, show me!

 

[palmerq]

All dismissed or considered irrelevant by the panel. No bearing in the case.

I think he wasnt talking about the case, he was talking about how one alberto fan would not believe alberto was doper unless he admited it, not just this clenbuterol carry on

 

[LaFlorecita]

The UCI only informed Alberto late-August. That's not his fault.

And he was told to keep quiet. He wasn't even allowed to tell his parents, or his wife. That's harsh. And not his fault.

 

[SantiBotero]

I said it was the only evidence. That's it. None of theories of how the clen got in his system were proven.

After reading the full CAS deliberation, i've got the idea that they really avoided the toughest way of balancing transfusion vs meat, and went to a much simpler conclusion, washing their hands with the food suplement.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I didn't hear you complain when OP was swept under the carpet so it's kind of lame to do it now.

Alberto was already cleared before it was swept under the carpet.

 

[Winternet_]

I think he wasnt talking about the case, he was talking about how one alberto fan would not believe alberto was doper unless he admited it, not just this clenbuterol carry on

He stated that as it was evidence. I just stated the obvious: that they were not.

 

[The Hitch]

Actually I don't think I have said anything like that in this thread, wich is why I asked you to show it to me.

I have just questioned some of the posts in this thread, making the posters explain themselves.

So again, please, show me!

If you havent I apologise.

 

[LaFlorecita]

After reading the full CAS deliberation, i've got the idea that they really avoided the toughest way of balancing transfusion vs meat, and went to a much simpler conclusion, washing their hands with the food suplement.

That's an interesting thing you got there... And it might as well be true.

 

[Mellow Velo]

My post was in response to another poster saying that s/he'd never believe Contador was doping unless Contador confessed. I wrote that there was more evidence than just the clen that Condador was doping, ie I wasn't talking only about the clen. Nor do I think you can only look at the clen in isolation - if taken in the context of other "activities" of Contador's past, then it becomes another bit of evidence added to the (admittedly smallish) pile.

CAS handed out a 2 year ban, solely on Clen being most probably ingested through a contaminated supplement.
So, yes, I'm afraid in the context of today's outcome, one has to look at this as an isolated offence.

"Gut instinct" isn't evidence. As we all found out on Friday.

 

[Fergoose]

Excellent that they kept their nerve and finally made the correct decision. A banned substance in his system, end of (although obviously there is a more detailed debate lying behind that).

Congratulations to Andy Schleck. I do wish such punishments stripped the offender of all previous titles too to be honest.

Individuals like Merx and McQuaid are out of line and such remarks irritate me. The punishment is "excessive" or this is a "dark day" for the sport? Idiots.

The evidence suggests that the black day for the sport was when Alberto elected to undergo a treatment that led to having a banned substance in his system. The day when the scientists found the traces of that and the day when the courts apply a punishment in relation to it were good days for the sport.

The punishment is no where near harsh enough for my liking, for Pete's sake he can race this year's Vuelta! He is essentially being rewarded for dragging the case through the courts with delay after delay. The longer he delays it, the more feeble his back dated punishment is. It should have been from the date he was sentenced (i.e. today). Expect other rumbled riders to continue to follow suit and tedious court cases with muppets in the media and peloton bemoaning the judicial process while ignoring what all evidence suggests is the real villain of the piece.

We can speculate if the clenbuterol is consistent with him having had plasticisers from blood transfusions. We can speculate why his performance that year, despite this process, was markedly inferior to his performances in previous Grand Tours (and what this might suggest about what he was up to earlier in his career). Only Alberto and his closest associates will ever know the answer and there is zero incentive for them to ever tell anyone. In such a system you only catch the bona-fide cheats a tiny percentage of the time they actually cheat.

It still comes back to having a banned substance in your system and you have to come up with something more concrete than a phantom cow carcass to overturn the routine punishment for such a blood test. If we can't accept the results and consequences of independent blood tests to identify a list of proscribed substances, then we might as well pack up and go home.

Sure, the decision could have been made quicker. But the quickest way for decisions to be reached is if the offender admits they were wrong. This can only be done if you impose harsh sentences for those who plead not guilty, but less harsh sentences for those who hold their hands up to it. Currently we are so lenient there is no incentive for anyone to admit it's a fair cop.

The sport is still on life support though, let's not kid ourselves. Anyone who saw Froome and Cobo destroy the pretty high level competition (including their in-form and more illustrious teammates) in the last Vuelta will know what to expect this coming season from a wider array of competitors. I'll be tuning in to this year's TdF from behind the sofa I think!

Anyway, on balance I'm a happy enough camper with this. Hopefully it'll give one or two riders pause for thought about their "preparations" this spring.

 

[sniper]

Excellent that they kept their nerve and finally made the correct decision. A banned substance in his system, end of (although obviously there is a more detailed debate lying behind that).

Congratulations to Andy Schleck. I do wish such punishments stripped the offender of all previous titles too to be honest.

Individuals like Merx and McQuaid are out of line and such remarks irritate me. The punishment is "excessive" or this is a "dark day" for the sport? Idiots.

The evidence suggests that the black day for the sport was when Alberto elected to undergo a treatment that led to having a banned substance in his system. The day when the scientists found the traces of that and the day when the courts apply a punishment in relation to it were good days for the sport.

The punishment is no where near harsh enough for my liking, for Pete's sake he can race this year's Vuelta! He is essentially being rewarded for dragging the case through the courts with delay after delay. The longer he delays it, the more feeble his back dated punishment is. It should have been from the date he was sentenced (i.e. today). Expect other rumbled riders to continue to follow suit and tedious court cases with muppets in the media and peloton bemoaning the judicial process while ignoring what all evidence suggests is the real villain of the piece.

We can speculate if the clenbuterol is consistent with him having had plasticisers from blood transfusions. We can speculate why his performance that year, despite this process, was markedly inferior to his performances in previous Grand Tours (and what this might suggest about what he was up to earlier in his career). Only Alberto and his closest associates will ever know the answer and there is zero incentive for them to ever tell anyone. In such a system you only catch the bona-fide cheats a tiny percentage of the time they actually cheat.

It still comes back to having a banned substance in your system and you have to come up with something more concrete than a phantom cow carcass to overturn the routine punishment for such a blood test. If we can't accept the results and consequences of independent blood tests to identify a list of proscribed substances, then we might as well pack up and go home.

Sure, the decision could have been made quicker. But the quickest way for decisions to be reached is if the offender admits they were wrong. This can only be done if you impose harsh sentences for those who plead not guilty, but less harsh sentences for those who hold their hands up to it. Currently we are so lenient there is no incentive for anyone to admit it's a fair cop.

The sport is still on life support though, let's not kid ourselves. Anyone who saw Froome and Cobo destroy the pretty high level competition (including their in-form and more illustrious teammates) in the last Vuelta will know what to expect this coming season from a wider array of competitors. I'll be tuning in to this year's TdF from behind the sofa I think!

Anyway, on balance I'm a happy enough camper with this. Hopefully it'll give one or two riders pause for thought about their "preparations" this spring.

I agree on all points, though i would not have been able to put my thoughts into such an excellent post.

 

[Carols]

Because you came in and started acting all righteous about how cheats like Contador deserved to be punished.

Needed to be said

Also if you think Im being a bad loser go back to TDF and look at the way I reacted to Samu having his dreams stolen from him by haters.

Im taking this one on the chin

Well I found this Self Righteous, condesending and patronizing.....but hey what the heck it's a cycling forum.

Originally Posted by Walkman
Shame? Because he is your favorite rider and therefore is allowd to dope?

Pantani is my favorite, followed by LeMond and Big Mig.

It's a shame because I won't get to see the best of the current peloton ride in races that is it in a nutshell.......

He is not my favorite, simply the Most Exciting to watch in GTs, as are Gibert and Cancellara in classics.

I almost gave up the sport when Museew admitted he doped, now that was devastating...but I still consider him one of my favorites.

 

[LaFlorecita]

AC hasn't come near to providing a plausible story.

Neither has WADA.

 

[Cimber]

Jens Evald, Chairman of Anti-Doping Denmark: "CAS's verdict is actuelly aquitting Contador, despite the ban".

http://www.feltet.dk/nyheder/evald_helt_klart_en_frifindelse/
(in Danish so use a translate tool)

Exactly how I felt about it when readin the verdict.

 

[sniper]

It still comes back to having a banned substance in your system and you have to come up with something more concrete than a phantom cow carcass to overturn the routine punishment for such a blood test. If we can't accept the results and consequences of independent blood tests to identify a list of proscribed substances, then we might as well pack up and go home.

My thoughts exactly.

E.g. Ovtcharov, and several others, have shown what is needed in order to make a solid case for unintentional clen-ingestion.
AC hasn't come near to providing a plausible story.
----------------------

Neither has WADA.

See comments above.