Alexi Grewel in training for comeback at 50! Inspiring or Unwelcome?

[jimmypop]

Agreed! He gets mega air time, but why. I guess Alexi has a large following?

We'll all cheer for Armstrong, too, when he's released from federal prison and makes at comeback at 50.

 

[131313]

if the guy wants to come back at 50, whatever his reasons, I wish him the best. that said, he should start showing a little more respect, to the other racers, the promoters and the officials. little things, like stop littering on the course, riding on the correct side of the road, and not riding like an idiot.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Glenn,

Winning a 'one and done' requires a team leader and supporting that leader. The exceedingly rare exception would be a LeMond racing at an regional level who is simply the class of the field and needs no team.

I'd argue Alexi did a masterful job getting the win. But it was done in the least honorable way, sucking wheel and screwing your teammates. It's good racing because it's a 'win.' There are/were widespread social/political consequences once the race is over. The guy has earned his reputation.

As a matter of fact, it was reported over the years that Alexi basically flew solo at the Olympics. That leads me to believe he wasn't a part of Eddie B's doping program. Was he doping anyway? Yup.

It is not everyone's opinion that he was sucking wheel and screwing teammates. It is a fact he was doping and I was not defending it.

 

[mewmewmew13]

It is probably buried deep in this thread somewhere or in another thread ,but I'm not going to wade back through so will just post this link again. ..in his own words...
Also, some interesting back and forth comments after the article regarding ethics vs pure racing....

http://www.velominati.com/blog/racing/alexi-grewal-1984-olympic-road-race

 

[mewmewmew13]

Sorry if I digressed somewhat in my opinions, but my point is that while intriguing and somewhat of a freak show if he does indeed come back, I find it Unwelcome, in keeping with the title of this thread.

 

[ricara]

That leads me to believe he wasn't a part of Eddie B's doping program. Was he doping anyway? Yup.

Citation, please?

 

[ricara]

It is a fact he was doping and I was not defending it.

Citation, please?

 

[Zweistein]

Much of this thread is pointless, off topic, and without real merit. Here is an old man who has admitted to popping speed during his career. Amphetimine usage was basically par for the course for a long time. Lemond has talked about how he could tell who was on speed becuase they would attack pointlessly over and over and would never talk during the race and I have yet hear him talk about how he couldn't compete with people on uppers. Christ, Merckx couldn't sit still because he was on amphetamines following his hour record. The guy admitted to it and makes no half *** admission about what he did and why. You people are such idiots for worshipping past cyclist who never admit to anything. Reality doesn't go away just because you refuse to beleive in it.

The guy is the closest thing you are going to get to straight talk in all of cycling and for that he is a little bit of a loose cannon. He knows how things are done and who does what. He he will call a spade a spade and has no reservations in mentioning that Lance was good talent but nothing great without the dopeshow. Cycling is the biggest pile of bull**** ever built. Listen to Liggett spout whatever about Lance, the media propagate the Lance story, cyclist giving half admissions following a positive, corrupt federations, federal investigations, uneven testing procedures, bribing, extra long suspensions for people who cooperate and name names and get blacklisted, little difficulty in doping without testing positive, computer hacking testing centers, getting a company to discontinue a product line due to the lines big name critizied a rider, riders still openly work with known doping doctors, the omerta stays in place bacause "it is good for cycling to not recieve so much bad publicity", clean riders getting pushed out of cycling for talking about doping, a complete lack of outrage in the peleton when someone gets beat by a doper who later test positive. Cycling couldn't be more full of sheet. And yet here is outrage for a guy who admitted to popping some speed a few times over 20 years ago. On the doping barometer the guy was barely above freezing. He was a strong cyclist who had some good Mt.Evens times and won a gold medal. You guys make it sound like he doped hardcore to win the tour a buttload of times. The guy is a very old man who is racing cat 1. Something which would be very difficult to impossible for most people here. The guy is training like a crazy man and all this board is posting about is how it is unfair to his kid or how he must be pushing an agenda or how it is damaging cycling. The guy has not tested positive. He doesn't have a federal investigation and a lot of smoke liek a recently unretired cyclist. He isn't part of the omerta or has any connections to known doping doctors. The guy is just riding his bike because he loves it and the competition. Either some of you are paid to spread propaganda or are complete hypocritical idiots. Maybe, he is jerk. Maybe, he is a lot of things. The guy is a dad who is seeing what he can do at 50 years of age. What agenda is there in seeing what you have in the tank?



Also on a side note, blood doping was not illegal during the 1984 olympics. The U.S team you can bet was not the only ones engaging in this practice. The practice of blood doping was over 20 years old at that point so anyone who wanted to would have had the means. The guy rode a hell of a race to win that medal and if he blood doped he only did as much as the rules allowed. Would this much vitrol be had for Davis Phinney had he won? Would that be completely different because Davis isn't so course with his opinions?

As, to why this comeback thread is in the clinic I don't understand. He isn't working with a doping doctor, he doesn't have even enough money to dope if he wanted to, he doesn't have a big sponsor who doesn't ask questions (Trek and Oakley) , and he has done nothing to show he wants to maintain the omerta.

 

[flicker]

Much of this thread is pointless, off topic, and without real merit. Here is an old man who has admitted to popping speed during his career. Amphetimine usage was basically par for the course for a long time. Lemond has talked about how he could tell who was on speed becuase they would attack pointlessly over and over and would never talk during the race and I have yet hear him talk about how he couldn't compete with people on uppers. Christ, Merckx couldn't sit still because he was on amphetamines following his hour record. The guy admitted to it and makes no half *** admission about what he did and why. You people are such idiots for worshipping past cyclist who never admit to anything. Reality doesn't go away just because you refuse to beleive in it.

The guy is the closest thing you are going to get to straight talk in all of cycling and for that he is a little bit of a loose cannon. He knows how things are done and who does what. He he will call a spade a spade and has no reservations in mentioning that Lance was good talent but nothing great without the dopeshow. Cycling is the biggest pile of bull**** ever built. Listen to Liggett spout whatever about Lance, the media propagate the Lance story, cyclist giving half admissions following a positive, corrupt federations, federal investigations, uneven testing procedures, bribing, extra long suspensions for people who cooperate and name names and get blacklisted, little difficulty in doping without testing positive, computer hacking testing centers, getting a company to discontinue a product line due to the lines big name critizied a rider, riders still openly work with known doping doctors, the omerta stays in place bacause "it is good for cycling to not recieve so much bad publicity", clean riders getting pushed out of cycling for talking about doping, a complete lack of outrage in the peleton when someone gets beat by a doper who later test positive. Cycling couldn't be more full of sheet. And yet here is outrage for a guy who admitted to popping some speed a few times over 20 years ago. On the doping barometer the guy was barely above freezing. He was a strong cyclist who had some good Mt.Evens times and won a gold medal. You guys make it sound like he doped hardcore to win the tour a buttload of times. The guy is a very old man who is racing cat 1. Something which would be very difficult to impossible for most people here. The guy is training like a crazy man and all this board is posting about is how it is unfair to his kid or how he must be pushing an agenda or how it is damaging cycling. The guy has not tested positive. He doesn't have a federal investigation and a lot of smoke liek a recently unretired cyclist. He isn't part of the omerta or has any connections to known doping doctors. The guy is just riding his bike because he loves it and the competition. Either some of you are paid to spread propaganda or are complete hypocritical idiots. Maybe, he is jerk. Maybe, he is a lot of things. The guy is a dad who is seeing what he can do at 50 years of age. What agenda is there in seeing what you have in the tank?



Also on a side note, blood doping was not illegal during the 1984 olympics. The U.S team you can bet was not the only ones engaging in this practice. The practice of blood doping was over 20 years old at that point so anyone who wanted to would have had the means. The guy rode a hell of a race to win that medal and if he blood doped he only did as much as the rules allowed. Would this much vitrol be had for Davis Phinney had he won? Would that be completely different because Davis isn't so course with his opinions?

As, to why this comeback thread is in the clinic I don't understand. He isn't working with a doping doctor, he doesn't have even enough money to dope if he wanted to, he doesn't have a big sponsor who doesn't ask questions (Trek and Oakley) , and he has done nothing to show he wants to maintain the omerta.

I resent you calling Alexi a 'very old man,' age is just a number. I am 57 and I take that very personally.We never use comparison with Alexi, as he is in his own catagory, like Sid Vicious singing Frank Sinatras' 'My Way' in the film Sid and Nancy. Other than that way to stick up for your hero, your style of going against the rat packing reminds me of me, when I was young and carefree, wearing my yellow bracelet riding a giant quarterhorse sporting my huge Tehas flag through French meadows....

 

[fatandfast]

zweistien, may I suggest that you apply Moore's law to doping and the knowledge of it. Alexi doesn't know 90% of what is going on in the pro bunch. The money that was not available in his heyday is just the start.

The bicycles, the social networks ,sponsors and endorsement deals are only a few things that are baffling Alexi about bike racing in it's current form. He and some others may have bought into the late night infomercials about 50 is the 40 but it is BS.

And another note on the Old Man Network. Laurent Fignon's tragic passing went without lots of haters putting his words through the super scrutinizer but,
he claims that he and Lemond shared party drugs together as room mates. Eating speed while racing bikes predates Coppi not Lemond.

And as federations all over the world make a mess out off making and enforcing bike racing's rules, Alexi should not be a Cat.1 period. When Grewal got out of cycling there was no Cat 5 and Cat 1 was reserved for national team members and elite federation programs. Doing meth and losing your fame, house,family and mind are not elite.

before you apply any more proactiv you may want to google Jerry Rubin to round out your day.

side note . Some of the original blood doping techniques used planned sickness as part or the regiment. The blood was taken and bagged, the finite number of antibodies in the bag would continue doing their thing and killing the existing germs within the bag. The blood would be put back into the body, the short term benefits would be gained. The boatload of bacteria and other toxins would follow up by making you sick as sheet.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Citation, please?

What? Seriously?

He has admitted to it. Why get all hung up on a cite? http://velonews.competitor.com/2008...1984-olympic-gold-medalist-alexi-grewal_74053

 

[Oldman]

zweistien, may I suggest that you apply Moore's law to doping and the knowledge of it. Alexi doesn't know 90% of what is going on in the pro bunch. The money that was not available in his heyday is just the start.

The bicycles, the social networks ,sponsors and endorsement deals are only a few things that are baffling Alexi about bike racing in it's current form. He and some others may have bought into the late night infomercials about 50 is the 40 but it is BS.

And another note on the Old Man Network. Laurent Fignon's tragic passing went without lots of haters putting his words through the super scrutinizer but,
he claims that he and Lemond shared party drugs together as room mates. Eating speed while racing bikes predates Coppi not Lemond.

And as federations all over the world make a mess out off making and enforcing bike racing's rules, Alexi should not be a Cat.1 period. When Grewal got out of cycling there was no Cat 5 and Cat 1 was reserved for national team members and elite federation programs. Doing meth and losing your fame, house,family and mind are not elite.

before you apply any more proactiv you may want to google Jerry Rubin to round out your day.

side note . Some of the original blood doping techniques used planned sickness as part or the regiment. The blood was taken and bagged, the finite number of antibodies in the bag would continue doing their thing and killing the existing germs within the bag. The blood would be put back into the body, the short term benefits would be gained. The boatload of bacteria and other toxins would follow up by making you sick as sheet.

Zweit is partly right because some are making Alexi's comeback attempt way too personal. In the Twitter/Facebook age almost anyone can and will embarrass themselves with excessive information and introspection. Examining his training methods and potential for success are valid topics and his drug use is really old news.
You also have to admire Zweit's endurance in sentence extension.

 

[gobuck]

I want to see and hear about his effort. It is all about the process! He isn't hurting anyone and he is helping himself.
Shouldn't be in the clinic.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Zweit is partly right because some are making Alexi's comeback attempt way too personal. In the Twitter/Facebook age almost anyone can and will embarrass themselves with excessive information and introspection. Examining his training methods and potential for success are valid topics and his drug use is really old news.
You also have to admire Zweit's endurance in sentence extension.

Agreed.

Wouldn't hurt to show that guy where the 'return' key is...

Tirades are better understood in short paragraphs.

 

[BotanyBay]

age matters

My own return to racing was a rude awakening, I must admit. And that was in my early 30's after a 13 year layoff. A morning of hammering on group rides with the boys, or a fast, short racing event was almost always followed-up with my laying on the couch all afternoon, sound asleep, completely useless to anyone. I was able to achieve the speed, but it came with a price that I'd never previously had to pay when I was younger. I could train during the week just fine, but the hard sessions on the bike zapped all of my energy. It was a huge change.

Age matters. If you do not respect this fact, you are kidding yourself.

 

[flicker]

My own return to racing was a rude awakening, I must admit. And that was in my early 30's after a 13 year layoff. A morning of hammering on group rides with the boys, or a fast, short racing event was almost always followed-up with my laying on the couch all afternoon, sound asleep, completely useless to anyone. I was able to achieve the speed, but it came with a price that I'd never previously had to pay when I was younger. I could train during the week just fine, but the hard sessions on the bike zapped all of my energy. It was a huge change.

Age matters. If you do not respect this fact, you are kidding yourself.

You do have to train up to your potential, it is silly to think that after 13 years off the bike and a sedentary job that you will not be extremely fatigued after a hammer fest. Also it is mega important to make sure your body has the correct minerals to supplement your loss of minerals during exercise.
Better to start slow. I saw Dale Stetina a few years ago break away for the whole race with an ex marathoner. I watched Stetina slump and age at the end of the race. It hurt me to look at him.
If you look at the Hunzas and some of the indigeonus Amazonian and Filipenoan tribesmen, they look like they could run down snow leopards at the age of 70. Could be genetics, could be diet, could be an active healthy lifestyle. If Alexi is a timber-framer my guess is that health wise he could have the body of a 25 year old.

 

[MarkvW]

sleep

My own return to racing was a rude awakening, I must admit. And that was in my early 30's after a 13 year layoff. A morning of hammering on group rides with the boys, or a fast, short racing event was almost always followed-up with my laying on the couch all afternoon, sound asleep, completely useless to anyone. I was able to achieve the speed, but it came with a price that I'd never previously had to pay when I was younger. I could train during the week just fine, but the hard sessions on the bike zapped all of my energy. It was a huge change.

Age matters. If you do not respect this fact, you are kidding yourself.

Sleep is when most of the really great adaptation takes place (HGH elevated, etc.). The current research favors lots of sleep as part of a training program. Just some encouragement.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Bzzt. Wrong.

I want to see and hear about his effort. It is all about the process! He isn't hurting anyone and he is helping himself.
Shouldn't be in the clinic.

He's not helping himself. He's resurrecting his past. What good can come of that?

What good can possibly come of a scheme by a guy with serious addiction problems returning to a situation where he doesn't have to deal with his addiction issues?

I could go on...

 

[DirtyWorks]

Bzzt. Wrong.

The guy is the closest thing you are going to get to straight talk in all of cycling and for that he is a little bit of a loose cannon.

Disagree. And you then try to make your point more acceptable by adding 'a little bit.' A healthier version of a straight talker is Steve Tilford. Check out his blog. No cannons(sp??) needed.

As for the rest of it, Grewal has serious addiction issues. The PED's is just one aspect of his kind of crazy. Getting back onto a bike to be competitive at a National level is just not dealing with his personal issues. It's more kinds of crazy.

 

[ricara]

What? Seriously?

He has admitted to it. Why get all hung up on a cite? http://velonews.competitor.com/2008...1984-olympic-gold-medalist-alexi-grewal_74053

Yes seriously.

There were two posts that strongly implied that Alexi was strongly doped for the Olympic Road Race in 1984.

There is absolutely no evidence for this that I have ever seen.

Yes, we all know that he admitted taking caffeine, and then ephedrine for "a few major" events. We all know that he was busted for ephedrine ten days before the Olympics. He claimed at the time that it was unintentionally ingested. Alexi was well known to use alternative medicines and saw a Chinese doctor decades before it became "fashionable". Many Chinese herbal remedies contain ephedrine, so this is plausible. Later admissions such as the one you linked make it plausible that he took the ephedrine deliberately. As I recall, he was racing in the Coors Classic at the time he tested positive.

But that is not what I am talking about. What I am talking about are two things:

a) By all accounts, ephedrine was the "hardest" drug he took. (Again, if you have evidence to the contrary, please give a citation.) Tell me how much you think the performance of an endurance athlete is boosted by ephedrine? Nothing? One percent? Two percent? Or do you think it is more like the twenty percent that EPO is widely acknowledged to confer?

b) Is there any evidence anywhere that Alexi was doing ANY kind of dope (other than caffeinated beverages) during the Olympics itself?

There have been dozens of posts in this thread claiming that his medal was "tainted" because he was a "doper". Or that he "stole" the medal from Bauer because he was a "doper".

Please cite ANY evidence that Alexi took ANY kind of dope (even that bad, nasty, incredibly effective ephedrine) for the Olympic Road Race.

Thanks.

 

[flicker]

Yes seriously.

There were two posts that strongly implied that Alexi was strongly doped for the Olympic Road Race in 1984.

There is absolutely no evidence for this that I have ever seen.

Yes, we all know that he admitted taking caffeine, and then ephedrine for "a few major" events. We all know that he was busted for ephedrine ten days before the Olympics. He claimed at the time that it was unintentionally ingested. Alexi was well known to use alternative medicines and saw a Chinese doctor decades before it became "fashionable". Many Chinese herbal remedies contain ephedrine, so this is plausible. Later admissions such as the one you linked make it plausible that he took the ephedrine deliberately. As I recall, he was racing in the Coors Classic at the time he tested positive.

But that is not what I am talking about. What I am talking about are two things:

a) By all accounts, ephedrine was the "hardest" drug he took. (Again, if you have evidence to the contrary, please give a citation.) Tell me how much you think the performance of an endurance athlete is boosted by ephedrine? Nothing? One percent? Two percent? Or do you think it is more like the twenty percent that EPO is widely acknowledged to confer?

b) Is there any evidence anywhere that Alexi was doing ANY kind of dope (other than caffeinated beverages) during the Olympics itself?

There have been dozens of posts in this thread claiming that his medal was "tainted" because he was a "doper". Or that he "stole" the medal from Bauer because he was a "doper".

Please cite ANY evidence that Alexi took ANY kind of dope (even that bad, nasty, incredibly effective ephedrine) for the Olympic Road Race.

Thanks.

Why was he in the Olympics, when he had been thrown out of the Coors classic, 10 days before for using a banned substance?
With his personal issues and 12 step programs how does he justify keeping the medal? Does being a part of a Christian Mens' fellowship raise Alexi above sporting ethics?
I wish him the best, but......

 

[Granville57]

Tell me how much you think the performance of an endurance athlete is boosted by ephedrine? Nothing? One percent? Two percent? Or do you think it is more like the twenty percent that EPO is widely acknowledged to confer

Well, how much faster was Grewal than Bauer?
One percent? Two percent?...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tWg_CR43rg

Btw, ephedrine was no joke. Long-lasting intensity? Aggressive, explosive efforts (like a final sprint)? Uh, yeah. That's your stuff.

 

[Oldman]

Well, how much faster was Grewal than Bauer?
One percent? Two percent?...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tWg_CR43rg

Btw, ephedrine was no joke. Long-lasting intensity? Aggressive, explosive efforts (like a final sprint)? Uh, yeah. That's your stuff.

You guys are arguing a relatively primative PED past, when ephedra and caffeine provided an edge in the Stone Age. Alexi is talking about now and some folks are gauging his current efforts and the likelihood of success. Can an elder rider sit through a Pro race?

 

[durgadas]

Hahahaaaa, Alexi Wins Again

Alexi's status as a loose cannon is, once again, confirmed. He's like a savant-level loose cannon. 25k views already, Alexi! It was the same when I was 19 years old (42 now) and hearing about him for the first time- the same crazy polarizing reaction to the guy.

Massive talent + massive attitude always succeed in the realm of the internet. Way to go Alexi.

But seriously, Alexi told me on the phone once that L.A. thought he could get away without doping in Europe because of his amazing physical gifts, but that he soon learned better in Europe. He said that Lance didn't know how stacked the doping system already was against him there, and soon turned to mastering it's intricacies himself to keep up.

Imagine my shock about it all. Alexi Grewal says Lance Armstrong dopes like he's saying politicians say whatever they want to to get elected. BORING. How naïve I used to be. Not around Alexi you can't be. I don't think he has the same filter the rest of us have about what is to be said and what isn't or to whom.

This was the mid-1990's, before cancer turned Lance into Saint Lance. Later, witnessing Lance leave 1000 people waiting for an autograph (after a dinner in his honor I was at in Tucson) made me think that maybe he wasn't much of a nice guy. He SEEMS nicer now, but I don't think anyone really knows, even those close to him.

This stunning revelation from Alexi and the simple fact of Lance's career trajectory I can't ignore. Lance was PUMMELING every other athlete consistently for YEARS, saying he's not taking anything; but it's also a fact that AT THE SAME TIME, doping was in it's heyday in a fashion comparable to nuclear proliferation was in the 1970s and 1980s. It was a Doping Cold War, and Lance consistently CRUSHED everyone who was clearly doping for YEARS. All by "being on his bike 6 hours a day".

Think about it. I was on my bike that long every day too Lance, but I couldn't keep up with you in Salt Lake City if I tried. Funny how Davis Phinney told a similar story to the one experience I had trying to follow Lance in Salt Lake.

You simply CAN'T be naïve in front of Alexi- he'll make sure he opens up RIGHT up with words like a scalpel. He still has that quality, apparently, if all these forum posts is any judge.

He told me all this in the first (and last) phone call I ever had with him- he didn't know me from Adam. Amazing. I was astounded then- and frankly still am- that he said everything he did to someone he didn't know at all. I always assumed that what he said that day was authoritative. I mean, he's effing Alexi Grewal, OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALIST and his status as a loose cannon is really only dwarfed by his cycling talent.

I met him once a little later at my friend John Stenner's funeral, and during that, he was much more respectful, but I never saw anyone really talking to him, just nodding and moving on their way.

I never met anyone quite like him, and I don't think I ever will. He's his own person for sure- and don't you DARE be naïve in front of him. He'll gut you.

Having said all this, I put the title in this post that I did because I grew up in my racing years hearing about Alexi's legendary performance-enhancing tricks- other cyclists from other towns visiting my area used to tell me about them in a similarly abashed tone just like I am using now.

For example:
Many tablets of No-Doze up the rear end encased in a stick of butter for the time-release boost; the caffeine is absorbed through the colon wall, apparently- and many other just-as-crazy stories. Other people confirmed these stories and they took on a patina of reality, although now it's hard to know if any of it was real, it was always just hanging about the guy, how different he was.

Who knows what is real or isn't when it comes to a guy like him, eh? Almost everything sounds half-crazy either talking to the man directly or when people talk about him, reading what he's written or whatever- so even hearing stuff directly from the horse's mouth seems like no confirmation at all. It's hard dealing with people who are 1) Experienced 2) Have Been There 3) Don't Suffer Fools Gladly and 4) Cannot Tolerate Naivete in anyone. Confusing.

Still, it is interesting to hear his preparation and training to get back to race shape. Listen up young ones, you might learn something. Just don't listen too closely...

Alexi wins again. And I'll howl hysterically once again when he wins his first pro race after his comeback.

 

[fatandfast]

durgadas. 1st Grewal needs to get a pro license. A USAC cat 1 or 2 license is not a pro license. Then he needs to race in a qualifying race. That means the pedigree of the field is pro not a cat 1,2,pro race. If Alexi gets on a team for Redlands, I think he will because it's the start of our season and the composite teams have been a long tradition there. Come March 31 Grewal will get a look at the landscape. Alexi may still have his cat 1 license which is not bad on him it's just shows what a sham the federation is.

I would save your hysterical howling until after Redlands. Speed Week starts April 30th it may be another chance for you to howl but it will probably be for a different reason than you think. He can also display his wares at the Tour Of Sommerville but I think he may already be back living in the garage by then.