- Apr 10, 2009
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Fieldsprint said:![]()
Best victory salute ever.![]()
Not much to add to this thread beside stating that this is the race and the moment I decided to take up road cycling.
I wish Alexi luck in his comeback.
Fieldsprint said:![]()
Best victory salute ever.![]()
slowoldman said:Not much to add to this thread beside stating that this is the race and the moment I decided to take up road cycling.
I wish Alexi luck in his comeback.
ultimobici said:No I think it's more that he shouldn't have really been there at all. But for the USCF conveniently clearing him in order to allow him to ride the race would have been totally different. I can imagine that it must have been galling that a rider suspended just before the Olympics is exonerated by his own federation so he can line up at the start of the Olympic Road Race in his own country and then goes on to win!!
TexPat said:Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Welcome to the cesspool that is moral relativism.
Cheating is cheating. I'm sure Steve Bauer agrees.
MarkvW said:Yeah. A tautology is a tautology. VERY convincing.
Moral absolutism--what you advocate--won't get you where you want to go. To enforce YOUR moral absolutes on others you must apply compulsion. You are never going to do that (unless you want to be a hitler or a pat robertson). Your only other avenue is through negotiation and compromise--where your acts must needs diverge from your rigid absolute moral path.
Or, you can be an ineffectual babbler. That's cool (it's what I do). But I can't see how your ineffectual babbling is any more constructive or useful than the babblings of the poster you insult.
andy1234 said:A quote from Grewal in 1985
"I will go to Europe for one reason--to break their legs," the Olympian said with fire in his eyes. "I think an American can go there (Europe) and race with the best as an American and not try to adopt their life style. Europeans don't accept Americans as being good cyclists. That is going to change."
He wasn't wrong, It just wasn't going to be him...
redtreviso said:He was wrong..The american that finally broke their legs lived in Flanders, the other one lived with EPO.
andy1234 said:When you say the other ONE, you mean the other TEN right?
TexPat said:I'm the furthest thing from Pat Robertson or ol' Adolph.
Surely, there are grey areas in arguments. My contention is that cheaters look for those grey areas after the fact.
Alexi can go hog wild with his comeback. It matters little to me, and PED's will do little good to him now.
The past, however, is still worth pondering. Why would you want to glorify what he did then with complete disregard for the facts?
I think what you're after is called libertarianism. Good luck with that completely amoral fustercluck.
TexPat said:I'm the furthest thing from Pat Robertson or ol' Adolph.
Surely, there are grey areas in arguments. My contention is that cheaters look for those grey areas after the fact.
Alexi can go hog wild with his comeback. It matters little to me, and PED's will do little good to him now.
The past, however, is still worth pondering. Why would you want to glorify what he did then with complete disregard for the facts?
I think what you're after is called libertarianism. Good luck with that completely amoral fustercluck.
MarkvW said:I'm not advocating libertarianism. To me that boils down to selfish dungheads fouling where they live. Cooperation and compromise is the only sensible way to improve our lot.
I note you probed for an "ism" that I might adhere to. Isms are tools that aid understanding that should be dropped or picked up as the moment suggests (but that's not for everybody).
Pragmatism. That's where I'm at. I see nothing inherently wrong with doping itself. Doping is vile to me for two reasons: (1) the destructive effect on health; and (2) the unfair advantage that dope provides to the rich and unscrupulous.
Grewahl did what he did. No way is he going to shatter anybody any more. I doubt that he is motivated by crush-kill-destroy now. I also doubt that he is into fame or prizes. He is also old, and pushing himself with dope is fairly stupid medically. All in all, I see him as an unlikely doper now. I'm rooting for him.
The smegma he deposited in the past is sporting history. Tainted history. But hey! Bike racing is all about the moment for me. Enjoy the race now (and enjoy the merciless hunt for the cheating geeks (in the original sense of the term)) later!
JMBeaushrimp said:Well, now you're just confusing me...
MarkvW said:If dope did no harm and if it was equally available, with full disclosure, to all competitors, I'd have no problem with it.
Oldman said:Late to the discussion but having raced with him before:
Everyone deserves a second chance. If he comes back as the same personality and seeking publicity for profit he should stay home; he would not have learned a thing.
As for his physical credentials-there are plenty of guys that were at this level, even when he doped. He's not that special, fellas.
BotanyBay said:Alexi had some of the best lab numbers ever. He held the ergometer record at OTC for many years (I forget his time, but it was unreal). I'm not even sure if Lance was ever able to break it.
yourwelcome said:Stressing about this guy returning to cycling at 50 sending the wrong message seems silly while we have Bjarne running one of the most successful teams in the world.
tubularglue said: