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All About Salbutamol

Page 6 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.

What will the verdict in Froome's salbutamol case?

  • He will be cleared

    Votes: 43 34.1%
  • 3 month ban

    Votes: 4 3.2%
  • 6 month ban

    Votes: 15 11.9%
  • 9 month ban

    Votes: 24 19.0%
  • 1 year ban

    Votes: 16 12.7%
  • 2 year ban

    Votes: 21 16.7%
  • 4 year ban

    Votes: 3 2.4%

  • Total voters
    126
Re: Re:

hazaran said:
thehog said:
The dehydration study was done at 35 Celsius at 40% relative humidity. Froome was in 20, at 11%. That’s not going to cut it.

Ignore the dehydration, it was just the study that had two fixed doses and gave ranges - unless you can find a hypothesis why the same exact percentage body mass loss in the participants gives this high variability in urine concentration.

If you find the dehydration distracting, try http://sci-hub.tw/10.1097/JSM.0b013e3181705c8c - this has similar crazy standard deviation.

I'm not arguing Froome didn't take too much - the studies support the 1200 ng/ml decision limit for 800 ug inhaled. But the data also makes abundantly clear that you can't just extrapolate from the legal dose to an amount that would yield 2000 ng/ml. A dose that puts one athlete at 2000 ng/ml could very well have another one under 1200, and we haven't identified the confounding factors (neither have the studies). There are a large number of candidates - time between urine and inhalation, amount inhaled in one go vs. spaced out, dehydration, mass, gender, ..

In particular, try not to be *this guy* (and why WADA lets you do a study) :lol:

S7fi0vK.png

Firstly the study used non-athletes, none of which were asthmatic. The study was to demonstrate that the limit being set a high of 1000 ng/ml accounts for the variables and Froome’s 2000 ng/ml is off the friggin’ charts!
 
Re:

Craigee said:
to make things less complicated. Has anyone tested twice the allowed limit and got off? If not they have to be consistent don't they? Also all these excuses for Froome's high readings such as the dehydration thing or the using of the puffer after the race and not peeing for a long time? Why is there no history of this happening previously? Surely common sense will be used at some point. Yes the bringing in of the allowed limit at 1000 may have come in just a few years ago but that's a long time in pro cycling, the king sport of the world for doping. So why is there no history of the excuses being thrown around for Froome and salbutamol? Salbutamol would be used a lot in cycling. It will probably be used more than ever now if cyclists think it's helped Froome with his success.

In tens of thousands of tests, only a few have gone over the 1000 limit. None have been remotely close to Dawgs World Record 2000 (and rightly so, Dawg is alien). Petacchi in 2009 was 1300. Sundby (sic) wasn't close, and he was mainlining the stuff.

Dawgs real problem is himself....in hundreds of tests he hasn't gone near 1000 let alone got to 2000.
 
Re: Re:

sittingbison said:
Craigee said:
to make things less complicated. Has anyone tested twice the allowed limit and got off? If not they have to be consistent don't they? Also all these excuses for Froome's high readings such as the dehydration thing or the using of the puffer after the race and not peeing for a long time? Why is there no history of this happening previously? Surely common sense will be used at some point. Yes the bringing in of the allowed limit at 1000 may have come in just a few years ago but that's a long time in pro cycling, the king sport of the world for doping. So why is there no history of the excuses being thrown around for Froome and salbutamol? Salbutamol would be used a lot in cycling. It will probably be used more than ever now if cyclists think it's helped Froome with his success.

In tens of thousands of tests, only a few have gone over the 1000 limit. None have been remotely close to Dawgs World Record 2000 (and rightly so, Dawg is alien). Petacchi in 2009 was 1300. Sundby (sic) wasn't close, and he was mainlining the stuff.

Dawgs real problem is himself....in hundreds of tests he hasn't gone near 1000 let alone got to 2000.

How do you know this please?
 
Re: Re:

brownbobby said:
sittingbison said:
Craigee said:
to make things less complicated. Has anyone tested twice the allowed limit and got off? If not they have to be consistent don't they? Also all these excuses for Froome's high readings such as the dehydration thing or the using of the puffer after the race and not peeing for a long time? Why is there no history of this happening previously? Surely common sense will be used at some point. Yes the bringing in of the allowed limit at 1000 may have come in just a few years ago but that's a long time in pro cycling, the king sport of the world for doping. So why is there no history of the excuses being thrown around for Froome and salbutamol? Salbutamol would be used a lot in cycling. It will probably be used more than ever now if cyclists think it's helped Froome with his success.

In tens of thousands of tests, only a few have gone over the 1000 limit. None have been remotely close to Dawgs World Record 2000 (and rightly so, Dawg is alien). Petacchi in 2009 was 1300. Sundby (sic) wasn't close, and he was mainlining the stuff.

Dawgs real problem is himself....in hundreds of tests he hasn't gone near 1000 let alone got to 2000.

How do you know this please?
I guess it's an assumption, but could that information be demanded in case of a trial
 
Ermmm....if he went over 1000 in the past it would have been worldwide news, like now. You do know the limit is actually 1000, but because Dawg somehow managed 2000? And that the arbirtrary 1000 limit was devised as theoretically impossible to exceed (even approach) taking legal doses in a legal manner (puffer only)?

Unless all those previous fails were also covered up... like this was meant to be
 
Re: Re:

Red Rick said:
brownbobby said:
sittingbison said:
Craigee said:
to make things less complicated. Has anyone tested twice the allowed limit and got off? If not they have to be consistent don't they? Also all these excuses for Froome's high readings such as the dehydration thing or the using of the puffer after the race and not peeing for a long time? Why is there no history of this happening previously? Surely common sense will be used at some point. Yes the bringing in of the allowed limit at 1000 may have come in just a few years ago but that's a long time in pro cycling, the king sport of the world for doping. So why is there no history of the excuses being thrown around for Froome and salbutamol? Salbutamol would be used a lot in cycling. It will probably be used more than ever now if cyclists think it's helped Froome with his success.

In tens of thousands of tests, only a few have gone over the 1000 limit. None have been remotely close to Dawgs World Record 2000 (and rightly so, Dawg is alien). Petacchi in 2009 was 1300. Sundby (sic) wasn't close, and he was mainlining the stuff.

Dawgs real problem is himself....in hundreds of tests he hasn't gone near 1000 let alone got to 2000.

How do you know this please?
I guess it's an assumption, but could that information be demanded in case of a trial

Assumption was my guess too....here's the view of the team doctor quoted in the cycling tips article:

You say there is a threshold there and they are looking for this in each test that somebody does. Would a rider be informed of the salbutamol level in every test, only if they approach the threshold, or only if they cross the threshold?

It is only if they cross the threshold.

So he may potentially have sailed close to the threshold in the past and not realised that?

He may have, yes

So yes, presuming test data is retained, then i think it could be requested by either party as relevant data in any trial. It would certainly be very informative as to how Chris Froome specifically responds to standard doses of Salbutamol.
 
Re:

sittingbison said:
Ermmm....if he went over 1000 in the past it would have been worldwide news, like now. You do know the limit is actually 1000, but because Dawg somehow managed 2000?

Unless all those previous fails were also covered up like this was meant to be.

Errmm...you didn't just say he never went over the 1000 limit, you specifically said he never went anywhere near it.

I specifically highlighted this section, and this section only, of your post.

The question was a valid one.
 
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He could have been over 1000 before, an AAF is only triggered at 1200 which is the decision limit. 1000 is what WADA thinks the threshold should be, the 1200 are for taking measurement uncertainty into account.
 
Re: Re:

brownbobby said:
Errmm...you didn't just say he never went over the 1000 limit, you specifically said he never went anywhere near it.

I specifically highlighted this section, and this section only, of your post.

The question was a valid one.

the arbirtrary 1000 limit was devised as theoretically impossible to exceed (even approach) taking legal doses in a legal manner (puffer only). There is not meant to be "sailing close to the wind" with this threshold. To even get "near" it you are clearly abusing the system, to exceed it you are doped to the gills, found guilty, and banned.

In tens of thousands of tests, how many have been found over the 1000 limit? How many over 1500? How many at 2000? The limit clearly works
 
Re: Re:

sittingbison said:
brownbobby said:
Errmm...you didn't just say he never went over the 1000 limit, you specifically said he never went anywhere near it.

I specifically highlighted this section, and this section only, of your post.

The question was a valid one.

the arbirtrary 1000 limit was devised as theoretically impossible to exceed (even approach) taking legal doses in a legal manner (puffer only). There is not meant to be "sailing close to the wind" with this threshold. To even get "near" it you are clearly abusing the system, to exceed it you are doped to the gills, found guilty, and banned.

In tens of thousands of tests, how many have been found over the 1000 limit? How many over 1500? How many at 2000? The limit clearly works

Ha ha. I simply asked you to explain a specific section of a comment. You got it wrong, it happens dude, we all make mistakes.

You want to start a completely new argument to hurriedly move on. Not with me dude, i've already done that one.

My work is done here for now ;)
 
Re: Re:

brownbobby said:
sittingbison said:
brownbobby said:
Errmm...you didn't just say he never went over the 1000 limit, you specifically said he never went anywhere near it.

I specifically highlighted this section, and this section only, of your post.

The question was a valid one.

the arbirtrary 1000 limit was devised as theoretically impossible to exceed (even approach) taking legal doses in a legal manner (puffer only). There is not meant to be "sailing close to the wind" with this threshold. To even get "near" it you are clearly abusing the system, to exceed it you are doped to the gills, found guilty, and banned.

In tens of thousands of tests, how many have been found over the 1000 limit? How many over 1500? How many at 2000? The limit clearly works

Ha ha. I simply asked you to explain a specific section of a comment. You got it wrong, it happens dude, we all make mistakes.

You want to start a completely new argument to hurriedly move on. Not with me dude, i've already done that one.

My work is done here for now ;)

No, you got it wrong, and have just admitted to trolling and baiting. Congratulations
 
Re: Re:

sittingbison said:
brownbobby said:
sittingbison said:
brownbobby said:
Errmm...you didn't just say he never went over the 1000 limit, you specifically said he never went anywhere near it.

I specifically highlighted this section, and this section only, of your post.

The question was a valid one.

the arbirtrary 1000 limit was devised as theoretically impossible to exceed (even approach) taking legal doses in a legal manner (puffer only). There is not meant to be "sailing close to the wind" with this threshold. To even get "near" it you are clearly abusing the system, to exceed it you are doped to the gills, found guilty, and banned.

In tens of thousands of tests, how many have been found over the 1000 limit? How many over 1500? How many at 2000? The limit clearly works

Ha ha. I simply asked you to explain a specific section of a comment. You got it wrong, it happens dude, we all make mistakes.

You want to start a completely new argument to hurriedly move on. Not with me dude, i've already done that one.

My work is done here for now ;)

No, you got it wrong, and have just admitted to trolling and baiting. Congratulations

No trolling. No baiting. Post not poster. I know the rules. My 'work' was simply to extract from you clarification of your post :)

Have a nice day.
 
Re: Re:

hazaran said:
thehog said:
The dehydration study was done at 35 Celsius at 40% relative humidity. Froome was in 20, at 11%. That’s not going to cut it.

Ignore the dehydration, it was just the study that had two fixed doses and gave ranges - unless you can find a hypothesis why the same exact percentage body mass loss in the participants gives this high variability in urine concentration.

If you find the dehydration distracting, try http://sci-hub.tw/10.1097/JSM.0b013e3181705c8c - this has similar crazy standard deviation.

I'm not arguing Froome didn't take too much - the studies support the 1200 ng/ml decision limit for 800 ug inhaled. But the data also makes abundantly clear that you can't just extrapolate from the legal dose to an amount that would yield 2000 ng/ml. A dose that puts one athlete at 2000 ng/ml could very well have another one under 1200, and we haven't identified the confounding factors (neither have the studies). There are a large number of candidates - time between urine and inhalation, amount inhaled in one go vs. spaced out, dehydration, mass, gender, ..

In particular, try not to be *this guy* (and why WADA lets you do a study) :lol:

S7fi0vK.png
It blows my mind when someone goes cherrypicking in one study and forgets to mention the considerations and conclusions:
D8 means 800ug and that's 4 times the recommended dosage, taken in eight consecutive 100ug inhalations (that's the max allowed for 12 hours isn't it? but taken in a short period of time).
The graph on top is the measured one and no sample crossed the threshold. The one brought here is corrected for USG, which WADA doesn't do it (at least at the time of the study).
Assuming the same marks are for the same individual across both graphs, the one that went over the limit in the corrected was only average in the measured one.
And finally the study concludes the limit is OK.

Our findings are in agreement with previous reports after inhalation of 200ug, and they add to the literature that after two and four times this dose, samples are not likely to exceed the WADA limit.
 
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Re: Re:

slosada said:
It blows my mind when someone goes cherrypicking in one study and forgets to mention the considerations and conclusions:
D8 means 800ug and that's 4 times the recommended dosage, taken in eight consecutive 100ug inhalations (that's the max allowed for 12 hours isn't it? but taken in a short period of time).
The graph on top is the measured one and no sample crossed the threshold. The one brought here is corrected for USG, which WADA doesn't do it (at least at the time of the study).
Assuming the same marks are for the same individual across both graphs, the one that went over the limit in the corrected was only average in the measured one.
And finally the study concludes the limit is OK.

Our findings are in agreement with previous reports after inhalation of 200ug, and they add to the literature that after two and four times this dose, samples are not likely to exceed the WADA limit.

No one cares about the recommended dosage, whatever that is. And before you accuse me of cherry-picking, try reading all the way to end:

The current WADA practice of allowing athletes with a TUE for salbutamol to prove that a sample greater than 1000 ng/mL was a result of an inhaled therapeutic dose seems warranted.

Notice that "with a TUE" no longer applies, the study is from 2008. And of course WADA corrects for urine specific gravity: they won't collect an urine sample that doesn't have a suitable specific gravity.
 
From Walsh telephone interview with Froome

Walsh said that since being seen using an inhaler during a stage of the 2014 Criterium du Dauphine and been criticised for it, Froome did not use it during racing anymore. :)

It meant the number of puffs of his inhaler that he could legally take were no longer always spread evenly across a day.

After stage 18, when he was “stronger” compared to the previous day, he took several puffs of his inhaler, says Walsh

-Stickybottle
 
ClassicomanoLuigi said:
There are 21 people who tested positive going back to the early 1990s.
The answer to the first question is no, because Froome is the highest urine concentration value for salbutamol ever measured.

Froome may be the highest ever measured for a cyclist, but not for any athlete. Saugy conducted a study on a Swiss track athlete who reportedly had levels of 4000 – 8000 ng/ml. He wasn’t sanctioned because his lab test confirmed that he was a metabolic freak. I posted the abstract upthread. So it is possible to get off with a very high level, but I assume that this athlete did not have a long record of testing within the limit, as Froome does.

Or does he? We have been assuming that if Froome tested over 1000, or 1200, in the past, we would know about it. But we might never have heard of this AAF if it hadn’t been leaked, and if Froome somehow managed to convince UCI/WADA that there was a reasonable explanation. That’s going to be difficult with 2000 ng/ml, but if he tested, say, 1300 at some point in the past, and managed to provide evidence that was possible, maybe he could have gotten off without the public knowing. I don’t think this is very likely, but AFAIK, it’s not impossible.

hazaran said:
of course WADA corrects for urine specific gravity: they won't collect an urine sample that doesn't have a suitable specific gravity.

Yes, but the suitable range covers values that, if corrected, could be quite significant. E.g., I believe a SG of 1.030 would be considered valid, but if it were corrected for, it would reduce the concentration of salbutamol by one-third.

In that graph that you posted, the outlier with all the high values had a SG of I’m guessing of around 1.007, which I believe would be considered suitable. But when his values were corrected, they nearly tripled in magnitude.

Edit: Something that just occurred to me. From time to time, Froome will give blood samples, for the passport. He may have given one at some point during the Vuelta. This could be very relevant to the salbutamol case, because plasma concentrations are another way of estimating how much salbutamol he took, and unlike the case with urine samples, dehydration isn't an issue. Peak plasma levels of salbutamol occur within 1-2 hours following an oral dose, but would be sooner after inhalation. They should still be detectable some time after the dose.

If the case went to CAS, blood values could certainly be part of the evidence, for or against Froome. Even if, as most likely, a blood value was only available from one of the many stages where his urine value was below threhshold, it might provide useful insight into his metabolism. As I recall, there was a blood sample available for the Contador case that was referenced.
 
Re: Re:

ClassicomanoLuigi said:
Yes, I was the one who posted the link to that Swiss study earlier in the thread.
What I should have said is "Among those 21 elite European road cyclists who did test positive, Froome was the highest of all them" . Sorry about my vagueness in that part. Just among those particular pro cyclists.
You questioned whether the athlete in Saugy's case report could have gotten to 8000 ng/ml using inhalers alone ... I don't know, and the athlete was not necessarily telling the truth about all his sources of salbutamol, as you said.

OK. now I finally get it, my bad. I looked at this study when you posted it, but I wasn't clear about the free vs. conjugated forms of salbutamol. Also, when I discovered the Saugy reference later, I didn't realize this was that study. I didn't connect the two.

I thought this was a lab test, but now I see that the rider claimed to take three puffs three times (so total of 900 ug I presume, maybe less if not all of a puff is inhaled) before, during and after a race. So since he wasn't in a lab the entire time, it doesn't seem certain that he couldn't have taken more by inhalation and/or orally. The authors apparently did not measure sulfated salbutamol, because that's not formed when the drug is inhaled; sulfation occurs in the gut, following an oral dose. However, not all orally taken drug is sulfated, so if the rider did take an oral dose, that would increase the amount of salbutamol measured in this study. I'm not sure how they ruled out that possibility. WADA apparently also does not measure sulfated salbutamol, which seems very strange to me. If you're going to maximize your chances of detecting doping, why wouldn't you assay a form of the substance that is produced when the drug is taken orally?

There are some other things about this study I don't understand. The first two three-puff doses were taken before the race, 30 minutes apart, while the final three puffs were taken at the end of the race. So the first two three puff doses should have been much closer to each other on the time scale than to the final three puffs. But the graphs show the second and third sets closer to each other, with the first three puffs occurring several hours earlier. I think maybe they meant the second three puff set was taken 30 minutes before the end of the race. But in any case, at least some of the puffs would have been taken several hours before the urine sample was provided, and so should have contributed relatively little to levels. Taken at face value, this study indicates that if the rider had taken all the puffs at one time, then submitted urine about an hour later, his levels would have been off the charts.
 
At 8:15 into Lance's Stages Podcast on this, he says: "I read an article on cycling tips with a doctor from the Irish federation [...] according to this particular doctor an oral ingestion of this salbutamol would be 20,000." I can't find the article, but if that's true..

Still the wrong timing for taking a transfusion, of course. If you back date the transfusion to a more sensible time, you start having trouble with half life calculations. But, if an oral dose is that much more, I think the transfusion theory might be back on.

EDIT: He must mean this interview: ‘It certainly doesn’t look good’: A doctor speaks about the Froome case. It doesn't really say what Lance says though..
 
Re:

Teddy Boom said:
At 8:15 into Lance's Stages Podcast on this, he says: "I read an article on cycling tips with a doctor from the Irish federation [...] according to this particular doctor an oral ingestion of this salbutamol would be 20,000." I can't find the article, but if that's true..

Still the wrong timing for taking a transfusion, of course. If you back date the transfusion to a more sensible time, you start having trouble with half life calculations. But, if an oral dose is that much more, I think the transfusion theory might be back on.

No, still probably not nearly enough. I would be interested to know, though, if people can actually tolerate doses as high as those urine levels imply, without major deleterious effects. Possibly at that point they've developed some tolerance.

Let's talk about Froome and the lab test. If he takes this test—and he may not—he won’t go into it unprepared, just hoping it works out. He will have several trial runs, in fact, I strongly suspect he’s already had at least one if not more such trials. If the results are not encouraging—and probably they aren’t, or he would have set a date for the official test--he may decide it’s not worth it to take the test officially.

Here’s what he’s up against. The maximum allowed dose is 800 ug/12 hours. The half-life of salbutamol is about 2.5 hours (according to the researcher on that podcast), so after any dose, only about 3% of drug remains after 12 hours. This assumes first-order kinetics throughout, which probably isn’t the case, but clearly, most of the drug is gone. Therefore, to maximize urine levels, Froome should probably just take one 800 ug dose, in as short a time as possible, and provide a urine sample about one hour later, when urine levels peak.

What are the odds that the concentration will be 2000 ng/ml? Here are four studies, involving a total of 95 subjects, in which the subjects inhaled an 800 ug dose, then urine levels of salbutamol were measured later. In the first two studies, the urine was assayed after 60 minutes. In the third study, it was assayed 1.5-4 hours later; in the fourth study, it was apparently assayed after four hours.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18469572
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18091010
http://sci-hub.la/10.1097/jsm.0000000000000072
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22388343

Only one of the 95 subjects (or maybe two; one of the studies claimed a high value in one graph, but not in several other graphs) exhibited a urine level of > 1000 ng/ml, and just barely. It was well below 1200 ng/ml, which means it would not reach decision level for an AAF. Also, if the sample was corrected for specific gravity, the level dropped to about 660 ng/ml.

So the odds are stacked against Froome, and I would expect that his trial runs will not give him the result he’s looking for. What does he do then? I think the best option is to take the case directly to CAS. This provides several advantages:

1) He can continue to race while the case is pending, and since it will take several months or more for the CAS scenario to play out (it took nearly a year in the Contador case), Froome is free to pursue the Giro/Tour double. He may not be enthusiastically welcomed at those GTs, but legally, at least, he’s allowed to participate. If he takes the lab test, fails it, and is suspended, he can still go to CAS, but at that point the chance for the double is probably irretrievably lost, depending on the length of the suspension. Even if the suspension ended before the Tour or the Giro, he would not be able to prepare for those races properly. Remember, the stakes are incredibly high here. He's not just trying to win another GT. He's trying for the first Giro-TDF double in twenty years; the first time anyone has won four GTs in a row; and joining the list of greats who have won five Tours. There will never be another chance like this.

2) While CAS will certainly want to see a lab test, he has more control over both how it’s carried out and how it’s interpreted. With regard to the former, he can do it practically under any conditions, as long as he specifies them clearly at the hearing. He can run several tests and furnish only the best results, and those results, whatever they are, will not be made public until the final CAS decision is announced. With regard to the latter, the decision is not necessarily binary. Even if he fails to reach the 2000 ng/ml level, he may argue that the level he does reach is consistent with the possibility of a higher level. E.g., several tests at 1500 ng/ml could be used as evidence that 2000 ng/ml is statistically possible, particularly in conjunction with arguments about how levels are affected by urine concentration, which is not taken into account at the initial hearing.

3) Other evidence that would not be considered in the usual anti-doping case will be important at CAS. E.g., Froome can argue that since there is little support for an aerobic effect of salbutamol, there would be no point in taking it, certainly not during a race. He might bring a certificate from a doctor that would qualify him for a TUE, allowing him to compete with any level of salbutamol. While he did not race the Vuelta with a TUE, in the CAS environment, the mere fact that he could have would work in his favor.

4) Even if didn’t win at CAS—and at this point, based on what’s been made public, I would bet he wouldn’t—he might get a more favorable sanction than he would at an initial hearing. At the time of a hypothetical announcement of a CAS award, Froome might have wins at all three GTs at stake. Rather than losing all three, as he probably would if he were to receive a suspension in the next few months, he might retain at least one or two of them.

5) The bottom line, as I see it, is that he has nothing much to lose by going directly to CAS—except the stress of racing under a cloud—and potentially a lot to gain. Only if he’s quite certain that he can pass that lab test does it seem to make much sense to try to win the case right now.
 
Re: Re:

Merckx index said:
5) The bottom line, as I see it, is that he has nothing much to lose by going directly to CAS—except the stress of racing under a cloud—and potentially a lot to gain. Only if he’s quite certain that he can pass that lab test does it seem to make much sense to try to win the case right now.

<snipped for brevity>

I assume that any lab test would have to be sufficiently well controlled. Would WADA (or UCI or whoever) have to be there? Presumably there would have to be some pre-test urine samples, and for how long? Whats to stop him taking a huge puff or tablet beforehand which is timed to affect any urine samples during the test? Sounds like they would need to take quite a few in the hours beforehand surely? To me it sounds like a test that can never be passed.
 
Re: Re:

TheSpud said:
Merckx index said:
5) The bottom line, as I see it, is that he has nothing much to lose by going directly to CAS—except the stress of racing under a cloud—and potentially a lot to gain. Only if he’s quite certain that he can pass that lab test does it seem to make much sense to try to win the case right now.

<snipped for brevity>

I assume that any lab test would have to be sufficiently well controlled. Would WADA (or UCI or whoever) have to be there? Presumably there would have to be some pre-test urine samples, and for how long? Whats to stop him taking a huge puff or tablet beforehand which is timed to affect any urine samples during the test? Sounds like they would need to take quite a few in the hours beforehand surely? To me it sounds like a test that can never be passed.
You'd take a baseline sample and he'd be required to stay in the lab under monitoring during testing. The half life of Salbutamol makes that pretty easy to do as he's going to need to provide a sample at peak concentration.
 
Re: Re:

ClassicomanoLuigi said:
Froome positive Positive test 07/09/2017
Pliuschin positive Positive test 28/11/2014
Ulissi positive Positive test 21/05/2014
Piepoli positive 1 Positive test 30/05/2007
Petacchi positive Positive test 23/05/2007
Pereiro cleared Investigation 25/01/2007
Cofidis convictions Criminal conviction 19/01/2007
Girschweiler positive Positive test 21/07/2006
Pereiro positive 2 Positive test 19/07/2006
Pereiro positive 1 Positive test 16/07/2006
Cofidis resignations Termination of contract 05/05/2004
Berthou positive Positive test 08/04/2004
Saprykinas positive Positive test 15/07/2002
González de Galdeano, I positive Positive test 12/07/2002
Velo appeal Appeal against sanction 06/10/2000
Velo positive Positive test 20/06/2000
Cofidis seizures Investigation 11/09/1998
White positive Positive test 27/04/1998
Rominger positive Hearing evidence 02/07/1994
Indurain positive Positive test 15/05/1994
Ballerini positive 1 Positive test 10/04/1994
Madouas positive Positive test 13/02/1994
Hamburger positive 1 Positive test 13/09/1993
Zülle positive Positive test 09/04/1993

Whats interesting here is the date range - almost nothing after 2007 (is that when the TUE rule came in?). Is it fair to say that Salbutamol is an old school enhancement method?
 
Re: Re:

TheSpud said:
ClassicomanoLuigi said:
Froome positive Positive test 07/09/2017
Pliuschin positive Positive test 28/11/2014
Ulissi positive Positive test 21/05/2014
Piepoli positive 1 Positive test 30/05/2007
Petacchi positive Positive test 23/05/2007
Pereiro cleared Investigation 25/01/2007
Cofidis convictions Criminal conviction 19/01/2007
Girschweiler positive Positive test 21/07/2006
Pereiro positive 2 Positive test 19/07/2006
Pereiro positive 1 Positive test 16/07/2006
Cofidis resignations Termination of contract 05/05/2004
Berthou positive Positive test 08/04/2004
Saprykinas positive Positive test 15/07/2002
González de Galdeano, I positive Positive test 12/07/2002
Velo appeal Appeal against sanction 06/10/2000
Velo positive Positive test 20/06/2000
Cofidis seizures Investigation 11/09/1998
White positive Positive test 27/04/1998
Rominger positive Hearing evidence 02/07/1994
Indurain positive Positive test 15/05/1994
Ballerini positive 1 Positive test 10/04/1994
Madouas positive Positive test 13/02/1994
Hamburger positive 1 Positive test 13/09/1993
Zülle positive Positive test 09/04/1993

Whats interesting here is the date range - almost nothing after 2007 (is that when the TUE rule came in?). Is it fair to say that Salbutamol is an old school enhancement method?

Just plain, good old, performance enhancement.