Allen Lim

[alberto.legstrong]

they all read the same to me... boring.

or more like that annoying mosquito that keeps buzzing around your head. You try to ignore it and then you start hunting for it, wasting seconds before you can zap it. yep trolls are like mosquitoes.

worse yet, you're walking down the street and one of those little screamers gets in your ear and you're smacking yourself on the side of the head hoping no one sees.

Some of these folks make a self administered b!tchslap seem like a relief compared to their cluelessness.

 

[this_is_edie]

worse yet, you're walking down the street and one of those little screamers gets in your ear and you're smacking yourself on the side of the head hoping no one sees.

Some of these folks make a self administered b!tchslap seem like a relief compared to their cluelessness.

some may be clueless and some pretend to be so they can rev up the regulars into responding - that's how they get their jollies. They do know which button to push by now.

 

[lean mean &green]

Lim is incompetent, or he's a liar. It really is that simple.

i agree except that his record suggests he's competent, that only leaves one logical explanation

 

[weasel]

Then next time just say that, and don't try adding some weight to your otherwise pointless argument by blowing some "it's in the Constitution" bull**** up our collective asses.

No, I see your misunderstanding. Instead of saying "makes explicit" it would have been better to use the word "protects", but does not change the point, The constitution is the basis for the law under which we live and that document is made from a list of defined assumptions.

actually, you don't:

http://www.jssm.org/vol6/n2/16/v6n2-16pdf.pdf

http://www.springerlink.com/content/j568441w01004638/

http://www.iutasport.com/files/artic...20is the.pdf

That's just a start. The Cliff's notes: as I said earlier, Lim is incompetent, or he's a liar. It really is that simple.

Thanks 13, I really appreciated the papers. I didn't find the 2nd link too useful but the PDFs were good stuff. I think the problem here is that the majority of people are making a gross assumption and it is the one you refer to in your "cliff notes" (above):

Lets rewind:

1) Floyd Landis is a Mennonite or (to be more accurate) grew up in a Mennonite community.

It is fair to a say that Mennoites are conservative

2) Cycling is also conservative. If you don't believe me then you only have to read the way I have been treated here. It is a typical reaction of a conservative community.

3) This being the case then there is a known human behavorial trait in conservative cliques of "silence is acceptance". In other words if you pose a rhetorical question in your conservative clique and no one refutes your statement, then there is a high probability you will take that as an affirmation.

4) Fast forward to today and Mr. Landis is claiming that Dr. Lim "helped him"

Given this and the fact that Mr.Landis has lied convincingly before (that is to say; he is good at it and has reason to benefit from it) then there is a high probability (over 60%) that the facts have been twisted.

In other words it is simple thought experiment to imagine where Mr. Landis has taken silence by Dr. Lim and turned it into "helped".

Given that we are products of our environments this suposition has more probability of being correct then a simple "he's a liar or he is incompetent statement.", (Even though it is attractive to everyone to have such a simple answer).

Things are more complicated then Mr. Landis would have us believe and no, given Dr. Lim's recent history in advancing anti doping, you cannot crucify him based on the assumptions you are being fed by Floyd Landis.

This is what we do know about Dr. Lim

1) He is not incompetent
2) He has been lied to just as well as the rest of us

Me? I want to hear what a jury says.

cheers


w

 

[MacRoadie]

No, I see your misunderstanding. Instead of saying "makes explicit" it would have been better to use the word "protects", but does not change the point, The constitution is the basis for the law under which we live and that document is made from a list of defined assumptions.

Yes, I see where I made my mistake. I misunderstood your use of the word "explicit"

Main Entry: ex·plic·it
Pronunciation: \ik-ˈspli-sət\
Function: adjective
Etymology: French or Medieval Latin; French explicite, from Medieval Latin explicitus, from Latin, past participle of explicare
Date: 1607
1 : fully revealed or expressed without vagueness, implication, or ambiguity : leaving no question as to meaning or intent
2 : fully developed or formulated
3 : unambiguous in expression

when you really meant "protects"...

Where can I find this "list of defined assumptions"?

 

[Anonymous]

I'm a "troll" because I voice a legitimate personal concern that I find alarming because of the content of this thread and hence my "1st post"?

No, you're a troll because you are a troll. Please also note that all of gree0232's citations have been thoroughly and completely debunked. Only a blind idiot cannot see that. I assume you read and type using voice programs.

 

[Anonymous]

You guys are a trip...

I'm not letting you get away with smearing a person based upon assumptions and all you can do is attack me personally without addressing any of the issues I have raised.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is a corner stone of our society. If you care to debate that, go right ahead. It will not change that fact.

What is evident here is that Forum behavior often results in "birds of a feather, flocking together", resulting in an unbalanced fan-boy fest. If you hate Dr. Lim then fine, that is your opinion, but don't try to hide behind a facade of intellectual piety, while pursuing your lynch mob agenda. People are free to have their opinions, yet I see no basis for the arguments presented against Dr. Lim here and some border on slander.

As has been pointed out by various people in reply to my 1st post. The "Hct" numbers vary considerably between people. All that raises is the issue; Can you use those numbers in a vaccuum to base your analysis of whether an athlete is doping or not doping? It seems that you can't. You need more data.

I would suggest that human behavior when exposed to illicit activities is one of either rejection or acceptance. From an outsider's perspective, Dr. Lim's behavior since the Floyd Landis affair looks more like an extreme allergic reaction than anything else.

As to foot notes; I would call to task anyone doing the same to any other citizen, yourselves included. It is simply not right. Let him have his day in court.


cheers


w

You know nothing of the law.

Tell you what, cite for me the necessary component of slander that makes anything said in a public forum borderline. I can assure you that nothing said here is even close to being slander or defamation or libel or anything else because they all fail the most important standard of proof. Now Mr Constitution, cite for us what that standard is.

 

[Anonymous]

No, I see your misunderstanding. Instead of saying "makes explicit" it would have been better to use the word "protects", but does not change the point, The constitution is the basis for the law under which we live and that document is made from a list of defined assumptions.



Thanks 13, I really appreciated the papers. I didn't find the 2nd link too useful but the PDFs were good stuff. I think the problem here is that the majority of people are making a gross assumption and it is the one you refer to in your "cliff notes" (above):

Lets rewind:

1) Floyd Landis is a Mennonite or (to be more accurate) grew up in a Mennonite community.

It is fair to a say that Mennoites are conservative

2) Cycling is also conservative. If you don't believe me then you only have to read the way I have been treated here. It is a typical reaction of a conservative community.

3) This being the case then there is a known human behavorial trait in conservative cliques of "silence is acceptance". In other words if you pose a rhetorical question in your conservative clique and no one refutes your statement, then there is a high probability you will take that as an affirmation.

4) Fast forward to today and Mr. Landis is claiming that Dr. Lim "helped him"

Given this and the fact that Mr.Landis has lied convincingly before (that is to say; he is good at it and has reason to benefit from it) then there is a high probability (over 60%) that the facts have been twisted.

In other words it is simple thought experiment to imagine where Mr. Landis has taken silence by Dr. Lim and turned it into "helped".

Given that we are products of our environments this suposition has more probability of being correct then a simple "he's a liar or he is incompetent statement.", (Even though it is attractive to everyone to have such a simple answer).

Things are more complicated then Mr. Landis would have us believe and no, given Dr. Lim's recent history in advancing anti doping, you cannot crucify him based on the assumptions you are being fed by Floyd Landis.

This is what we do know about Dr. Lim

1) He is not incompetent
2) He has been lied to just as well as the rest of us

Me? I want to hear what a jury says.

cheers


w

What you fail to see is that this isn't the first rodeo for most of us here. We have endured countless people such as yourself and gree0232 (should have used a singular?) who didn't know the information presented by 13, and who therefore assume that others didn't either. Problem is that you are a day late and a dollar short, but many of us aren't. I for one have grown tired of providing the proof of these things to people such as yourself and prefer to insult you instead. If you wanted to read my cited arguments on the subject, you should have shown up on one of may forums years ago.

Personally, I cannot suffer idiots anymore, especially the June to August ones. Seen way too many to take any of you seriously anymore.

 

[lightandlongshadows]

What you fail to see is that this isn't the first rodeo for most of us here. We have endured countless people such as yourself and gree0232 (should have used a singular?) who didn't know the information presented by 13, and who therefore assume that others didn't either. Problem is that you are a day late and a dollar short, but many of us aren't. I for one have grown tired of providing the proof of these things to people such as yourself and prefer to insult you instead. If you wanted to read my cited arguments on the subject, you should have shown up on one of may forums years ago.

Personally, I cannot suffer idiots anymore, especially the June to August ones. Seen way too many to take any of you seriously anymore.

Have you ever considered that you may have spent a little too much time in here keeping track of obscure machinations that are, in the grand scheme of things, of little consequence? With all the serious problems going on in the world, well....a little perspective may be in order.
Why bother responding if it's so far beneath you? Ego, marking territory, some warped sense of entitlement?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

.....

Me? I want to hear what a jury says.

cheers


w

Well then thanks for stopping by and highlighting your countries constitution on "freedom of speech" and highlighting that this is not a 'Court of law', just an internet forum - the way some people were carrying on one would think you could not have an opinion unless it had judicial approval.


BTW - I think its fair to say Floyd failed in Mennonite culture by moving to California and becoming a Pro rider.

Enjoy court and say a big "Hey y'all" to 'Gree' & Mark for me.

 

[Oldman]

What you fail to see is that this isn't the first rodeo for most of us here. We have endured countless people such as yourself and gree0232 (should have used a singular?) who didn't know the information presented by 13, and who therefore assume that others didn't either. Problem is that you are a day late and a dollar short, but many of us aren't. I for one have grown tired of providing the proof of these things to people such as yourself and prefer to insult you instead. If you wanted to read my cited arguments on the subject, you should have shown up on one of may forums years ago.

Personally, I cannot suffer idiots anymore, especially the June to August ones. Seen way too many to take any of you seriously anymore.

Quit responding to new Weasels. You're just aggravating yourself and you guys taught me how to do the IGNORE thing. Use it. USE IT!!!

 

[Anonymous]

Have you ever considered that you may have spent a little too much time in here keeping track of obscure machinations that are, in the grand scheme of things, of little consequence? With all the serious problems going on in the world, well....a little perspective may be in order.
Why bother responding if it's so far beneath you? Ego, marking territory, some warped sense of entitlement?

I am capable of discussing machinations regarding many subjects. I guess that must be hard for people like you to comprehend.

As for posting here. I post here. This is the cycling forum on which I post. I post about lots of things ALL YEAR. I post on threads in almost every section of the forum. It really doesn't take that long. Did I mention that I post ALL YEAR, and not just around Tour time? Yea, well...

 

[Anonymous]

Quit responding to new Weasels. You're just aggravating yourself and you guys taught me how to do the IGNORE thing. Use it. USE IT!!!

The voice of reason. Thanks!

 

[lightandlongshadows]

I guess that must be hard for people like you to comprehend.

Did I mention that I post ALL YEAR, and not just around Tour time?.

"people like you"
What does that mean exactly? Who am I? You have no idea.

"Did I mention that I post ALL YEAR, and not just around Tour time?."
So you've wasted a lot more time discussing issues that, I'll go out on a limb here, don't affect you directly and you can't effect in any real way. Granted I could be wrong on that score but odds are I'm right.
You're also assuming that I'm posting as a result of the TdF, wrong.
I took a renewed interest as a result of Landis's revelations as these issues did affect me personally in 1990 when I decided to quit racing. While there's some interesting discussion in here there's loads of b.s. (as in all forums) but none as tedious as someone with a sense of entitlement who's calling down others.

 

[Anonymous]

"people like you"
What does that mean exactly? Who am I? You have no idea.

"Did I mention that I post ALL YEAR, and not just around Tour time?."
So you've wasted a lot more time discussing issues that, I'll go out on a limb here, don't affect you directly and you can't effect in any real way. Granted I could be wrong on that score but odds are I'm right.
You're also assuming that I'm posting as a result of the TdF, wrong.
I took a renewed interest as a result of Landis's revelations as these issues did affect me personally in 1990 when I decided to quit racing. While there's some interesting discussion in here there's loads of b.s. (as in all forums) but none as tedious as someone with a sense of entitlement who's calling down others.

Do you understand the concept of irony?

You also might note that the person to whom I responded originally (not you by the way), is a long time forum troll who has been banned on multiple occasions. Again, maybe come around awhile before posting this type of drivel. Also note that people generally have a distaste for things in others that they detest about themselves. I don't charge for the therapy, I just ask that you take it into account in your personal life.

 

[lightandlongshadows]

Do you understand the concept of irony?

Do you understand what your behaviour here means if you are in a postion whereby you are affected by or can effect outcomes of the issues discussed? That is ironic.
Take care big fella.

 

[Anonymous]

Do you understand what your behaviour here means if you are in a postion whereby you are affected by or can effect outcomes of the issues discussed? That is ironic.
Take care big fella.

I understand that you suggest that I know you not, yet you are in a position to make judgments about me. That is ironic.

I also don't charge for functional literacy lessons. Dang, you got a two'fer. Count your blessings.

Also note that the sentence you wrote makes no sense. I would suggest that you take an English class or two. I would help you out, but if I charge for thirds, and you will need to send me a credit card number before I can help you.

 

[lightandlongshadows]

Do you understand the concept of irony?

You also might note that the person to whom I responded originally (not you by the way), is a long time forum troll who has been banned on multiple occasions. Again, maybe come around awhile before posting this type of drivel. Also note that people generally have a distaste for things in others that they detest about themselves. I don't charge for the therapy, I just ask that you take it into account in your personal life.

"Also note that people generally have a distaste for things in others that they detest about themselves."
More irony I suppose.

I have better things to do, see ya'.

 

[Anonymous]

"Also note that people generally have a distaste for things in others that they detest about themselves."
More irony I suppose.

I have better things to do, see ya'.

Man, you really don't understand the concept of irony. I hope those "better things" includes a trip through functional literacy.

 

[peloton]

"Also note that people generally have a distaste for things in others that they detest about themselves."
More irony I suppose.

I have better things to do, see ya'.

Good, don't hurry back.
This thread is about Lim, not you.

 

[weasel]

Yes, I see where I made my mistake. I misunderstood your use of the word "explicit"



when you really meant "protects"...

Where can I find this "list of defined assumptions"?

??? I just conceded your point and corrected what I had said to better explain my point.

Assumptions? Well, hey lets start with the declaration of independence

"...we hold these truths..."

that is a list of defined assumptions and is what makes the document so powerful.

As to those others posting assinine comments about my contributions...Grow up.

cheers

w

 

[Colm.Murphy]

??? I just conceded your point and corrected what I had said to better explain my point.

Assumptions? Well, hey lets start with the declaration of independence

"...we hold these truths..."

that is a list of defined assumptions and is what makes the document so powerful.

As to those others posting assinine comments about my contributions...Grow up.

cheers

w

All I can say is that in reading your posts there is one thing that is "Self Evident".