Amgen Tour of California May 15-22 2011

[Astana1]

Oh so sorry. I got Phil's rag confused with one of the other Brit fanboy publications. And I always thought Americans were the only homers. What a shocker. What do I know?

Anyone see the new issue of f1 racing yet? I am really hoping for another article by Peter Windsor comparing Lewis Hamilton to Ayrton Senna.

 

[veganrob]

Have you considered that the reason he seems to you a wheel sucker, that the reason that he has been a consistent disappointment, is that he, unlike the 'heros' of the peloton, isn't doped?

Kinda funny how Levi, somewhat like Menchov, always seemed to get blown off the back wheel by the likes of Heras, Vino, Boltero, Rasmussen, Basso, Di Luca, Sella, Ricco, Armstrong, Landis, Valverde...

Just saying, there may be another explanation.

That is what I may have thought prior to him joining Lance. But the guilt by association is difficult to overlook for me.

 

[The Hitch]

That's not what I said at all.

Point is, the calendar is full as it is, so no matter where you put the race it's going to be going against something. Better the Vuelta than the Giro and it makes more sense later in the year for better weather and as a potential Worlds warm-up. I happen to enjoy the Vuelta, but it is lowest on the GT totem pole.

You said no one seems to care about the Vuelta.

This is false. The Vuelta got huge crowds last year, gets bigger tv viewership in the country than the TDF in america during the Lance years (in a country 1/5th of the size), and is returning to Pais Vasco this year where they turn up in their hundreds of thousands.
What right does Cali, which will not be able to rival Vueltas viewership figures or crowds, nor its history, its parcors, to destroy a race so many cycling fans care about (and yes taking a week off is destroying it).

But most importantly, why Cali? There are a bunch of better races out there. the Tours of Portugal and Poland are both older than the Vuelta at 70+ years. Colombia is 60 and has a huge cycling culture. Why should a race created in the last decade, in a state where cycling is not one of the top 10 sports even, with no major culture of the sport, be promoted over all these races and start destroying grand tours?

Why?

 

[El Pistolero]

You said no one seems to care about the Vuelta.

This is false. The Vuelta got huge crowds last year, gets bigger tv viewership in the country than the TDF in america during the Lance years (in a country 1/5th of the size), and is returning to Pais Vasco this year where they turn up in their hundreds of thousands.
What right does Cali, which will not be able to rival Vueltas viewership figures or crowds, nor its history, its parcors, to destroy a race so many cycling fans care about (and yes taking a week off is destroying it).

But most importantly, why Cali? There are a bunch of better races out there. the Tours of Portugal and Poland are both older than the Vuelta at 70+ years. Colombia is 60 and has a huge cycling culture. Why should a race created in the last decade, in a state where cycling is not one of the top 10 sports even, with no major culture of the sport, be promoted over all these races and start destroying grand tours?

Why?

Come'on, if any race deserves it it's the Tour de Suisse.

VaC will always be a race just for Columbians.

 

[The Hitch]

Come'on, if any race deserves it it's the Tour de Suisse.

VaC will always be a race just for Columbians.

I was naming races outside cyclings central west european heartland. But yes TDS definately fits the bill. It would be a travesty for a race like TOC to leapfrog TDS in importance.

 

[theyoungest]

Have you considered that the reason he seems to you a wheel sucker, that the reason that he has been a consistent disappointment, is that he, unlike the 'heros' of the peloton, isn't doped?

Kinda funny how Levi, somewhat like Menchov, always seemed to get blown off the back wheel by the likes of Heras, Vino, Boltero, Rasmussen, Basso, Di Luca, Sella, Ricco, Armstrong, Landis, Valverde...

Just saying, there may be another explanation.

Clinic material, but: read this.

 

[just some guy]

Ask Gordon Geeko - greed is good. The money trail.

But for who would it become more important to. Cycling fans will have their favourate races. Some will bring in more money tv etc.

With the Giro and tour as they are the Veulta will always be very important for many reasons other than cash.

The ASO own 49% I think so they will not kill it off.

 

[Kwibus]

Why?

Dollar dollar bills! Dollar dollar bills! $$$$$

 

[Fus087]

Money isn't everything, especially not in cycling.
The prize money for winning Paris-Nice is 16000 €, that's less than at the Tour Down Under or Tour of California.
Ask any rider which one they'd rather win.

 

[flicker]

Clinic material, but: read this.

no foodfights in the family area, please go to clinic!

 

[kurtinsc]

You said no one seems to care about the Vuelta.

This is false. The Vuelta got huge crowds last year, gets bigger tv viewership in the country than the TDF in america during the Lance years (in a country 1/5th of the size), and is returning to Pais Vasco this year where they turn up in their hundreds of thousands.
What right does Cali, which will not be able to rival Vueltas viewership figures or crowds, nor its history, its parcors, to destroy a race so many cycling fans care about (and yes taking a week off is destroying it).

But most importantly, why Cali? There are a bunch of better races out there. the Tours of Portugal and Poland are both older than the Vuelta at 70+ years. Colombia is 60 and has a huge cycling culture. Why should a race created in the last decade, in a state where cycling is not one of the top 10 sports even, with no major culture of the sport, be promoted over all these races and start destroying grand tours?

Why?

Why?

Because the people running cycling want the US market interested. The US is a TV culture and a consumer culture. US households watch a lot of TV and spend too much money (I'm not saying this is good... just saying what it is).

What that gets you is the most fertile advertising market on the planet right now. We're easy to reach, there are a lot of us and we buy crap.

Look at the most recent Soccer World Cup final. The teams were Spain and the Netherlands. Soccer is NOT a big sport here for viewing... probably only a small step or two ahead of cycling.

Yet even with 2 teams from Europe playing, 24.4 million people watched the world cup final... compared to about 18 million in the UK. Despite the fact Soccer is near the top of the sports viewing heap over there and near the bottom over here.

A small piece of the US market is often worth more money to advertisers then a huge chunk of other markets. And thos advertisers sponsor teams and races that make cycling work.

For Tour de France numbers... the US market is still important. We had 265,000 viewers per stage of the "live" broadcast in 2008 and 500,000 in 2009. Those are morning TV audiences (european races end before noon over here). In comparison, in 2007 Denmark had an average live viewership somewhere around 350,000 per stage (I struggle to find numbers for other countries).

Considering the times of the broadcasts and where cycling ranks on the sports calendar, I think you can see why the UCI wants US cycling to grow. You can also see why they'd protect Lance... his comeback in 2009 brought a number of viewers equal to that of a small european country in the US.

 

[Astana1]

I think people get all riled up because they think the ToC can't coexist. It actually can IF the sport grows. I like the Tour de Suisse.

And Paris-Nice has been declining in importance for years. TA seems to be where it's at for the time being. Stuff happens. Oh well. Riders and fans alike prefer nice weather.

If some newcomer shows up and supplants a stale old race then so be it. That's life in the big city.

 

[Angliru]

That's not what I said at all.

Point is, the calendar is full as it is, so no matter where you put the race it's going to be going against something. Better the Vuelta than the Giro and it makes more sense later in the year for better weather and as a potential Worlds warm-up. I happen to enjoy the Vuelta, but it is lowest on the GT totem pole.

You said "No one seems to care about the Vuelta" which in and of itself is a blanket statement that simply can't be accepted as fact, thus my sarcastic response. I too enjoy the Vuelta and I'm quite certain there are many other fans that share with us in that sentiment. I agree with a previous post that suggested it be grouped in the same part of the calender with the successful
Canadian (Quebec City and Montreal) races that debuted last fall. I don't think the Vuelta would suffer as a result because those gc riders that may have ridden the Tour but not met their goals or missed it due to injury would more likely do the Vuelta as opposed to ToC, of course IMO.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The problem is, striking a balance. Growing the Tour of California does not have to come at the expense of a Grand Tour.

The races Hitch points out as having long and storied histories... they may not be as big as the Tour of California worldwide, but the Volta a Portugal is a bigger deal in Portugal, and the Vuelta a Colombia is a bigger deal in Colombia, than the Tour of California is in either the US as a whole or California alone. If the bottom falls out of cycling's globalisation drive, they're going to need the traditional races to still be around to pick up the pieces.

The Tour of California's hype has a double problem. For the experienced (and let's also accept sometimes snobbish) cycling fans, the self-aggrandising hype is a source of ridicule, as they can tell when it's patently not true. The continued beating of the Cali-is-such-a-big-thing drum in the face of evidence being to the contrary then causes them to deride it and take pleasure in knocking it down a few notches, rather than encouraging the race. For the novice fan the hype may be readily believable, but then when they tune in and find, as they did in 2010, a handful of big names, a handful of other big names not trying, and little actually meaningful racing, it becomes a letdown because the race simply can't serve up what it's promising the fans yet.

California could, in time, be a very good race. In time it may get itself up to the status of País Vasco, Paris-Nice, and the Tour de Suisse. But it won't be a Grand Tour. They look to have learnt their mistakes from the parcours of last year, and this year's parcours looks like it should provide a good race. But you have to walk before you can run. Enticing a few more big names and turning it into a very good - and desirable, this is key - one-week race should be a priority instead of hyping it up as something else. If you create a good race, people will want to win it, and that then brings prestige. Don't try to think it'll have prestige simply bestowed on it by money, because the money can always run out. The racing can't.

 

[biokemguy]

Could Andy Schleck add prestige to the ToC if he raced it?

He's a top stage racer without any stage racing victories, so it seems to me he should actually try for an 'easy' one.

His major rival, Contador, wins practically every stage race he enters and Schlecklet lacks a single major stage race victory. If he won ToC, he could call it a major stage race to boost his ego and many in cycling would maybe take the race more seriously.

 

[will10]

Except Schleck doesn't care about the Tour of California...

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

not a bad course actually.

TJV FTW?

 

[marco1_79]

Could Andy Schleck add prestige to the ToC if he raced it?

He's a top stage racer without any stage racing victories, so it seems to me he should actually try for an 'easy' one.

His major rival, Contador, wins practically every stage race he enters and Schlecklet lacks a single major stage race victory. If he won ToC, he could call it a major stage race to boost his ego and many in cycling would maybe take the race more seriously.

Schlek really doesn't care about Tour of California. Don't expect nothing from him.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

not a bad course actually.

TJV FTW?

I'll go along with that.

 

[biokemguy]

Except Schleck doesn't care about the Tour of California...

I'm aware of that, I watched his lazy a$$ ride (won't say race) last year.
I was hoping he wouldn't be invited back since I think his approach to the race hurts it's image.

I'm just wondering if he did care, would that give the race a bit more prestige?

Plus, I think he should care since a stage race specialist should win a stage race once in a while.

 

[dancing on pedals]

The problem is, striking a balance. Growing the Tour of California does not have to come at the expense of a Grand Tour.

The races Hitch points out as having long and storied histories... they may not be as big as the Tour of California worldwide, but the Volta a Portugal is a bigger deal in Portugal, and the Vuelta a Colombia is a bigger deal in Colombia, than the Tour of California is in either the US as a whole or California alone. If the bottom falls out of cycling's globalisation drive, they're going to need the traditional races to still be around to pick up the pieces.

The Tour of California's hype has a double problem. For the experienced (and let's also accept sometimes snobbish) cycling fans, the self-aggrandising hype is a source of ridicule, as they can tell when it's patently not true. The continued beating of the Cali-is-such-a-big-thing drum in the face of evidence being to the contrary then causes them to deride it and take pleasure in knocking it down a few notches, rather than encouraging the race. For the novice fan the hype may be readily believable, but then when they tune in and find, as they did in 2010, a handful of big names, a handful of other big names not trying, and little actually meaningful racing, it becomes a letdown because the race simply can't serve up what it's promising the fans yet.

California could, in time, be a very good race. In time it may get itself up to the status of País Vasco, Paris-Nice, and the Tour de Suisse. But it won't be a Grand Tour. They look to have learnt their mistakes from the parcours of last year, and this year's parcours looks like it should provide a good race. But you have to walk before you can run. Enticing a few more big names and turning it into a very good - and desirable, this is key - one-week race should be a priority instead of hyping it up as something else. If you create a good race, people will want to win it, and that then brings prestige. Don't try to think it'll have prestige simply bestowed on it by money, because the money can always run out. The racing can't.

Tend to agree with this .. I cant see why any racing fan shouldn't wish the race well - but the hype is just plain silly. Listened one year to the American commentators (who to be fair were very good on local riders i knew nothing about) but seeing one spectator by the side of the road they would declare "the fans have turned out in their hundreds of thousands" I did find this bizarre, its not radio guys we can see how many are there!.
Outside good crowds at the start and finish lines the crowds were minimal as far as I could see - a few guys in fancy dress at the top of a mountain does not constitute "massive turnout".
That aside the highlights on TV at a reasonable hour in the evening will ensure that I will settle down with a Leffe and enjoy the race
Thanks-

 

[Cobblestoned]

Shall I open a ToC racingthread where we then can actually talk about the race ?

We could then leave this thread for the broken records, usual visioneers and racepromoters (next to all the other threads about ToC of course).

Nah, nah, nah. I am tired of looking for some racetalk and information, some good and matching posts, which I guess makes just 5% of this thread.
It could be expected of course, but somehow its like a Pest now and mods don't care.
2nd day - 2nd fail, and actually there is posted the same **** I read 6 months ago. And the same **** like 1 year ago.
****ing race starts on Sunday. So we need a solution.

I guess, the people adressed should just shut the **** up, or go to one of the other ToC threads, or open another thread where they can play their broken records and cry, without ****ing up the race and people interested in talking about the race.

I'll have a look tomorrow again and then perhaps have another try or otherwise trash this place.
Thanks for the threadopening dlwsonic, while you of course placed some bait there yourself. Godlike. I was thinking about calling you Supersonic for a short ****ing second.

 

[Polish]

So, snow is expected on Stage 1

Anyone know what kind of snow?
kaniktshaq? qanik? anijo? hiko? tsikut? hikuliaq? quahak?
kanut? pugtaq? peqalujaq? manelaq? ivuneq? maneraq?

Anyway, I pick Thomas Danielson FTW.

 

[Cobblestoned]

So, snow is expected on Stage 1

Anyone know what kind of snow?
kaniktshaq? qanik? anijo? hiko? tsikut? hikuliaq? quahak?
kanut? pugtaq? peqalujaq? manelaq? ivuneq? maneraq?

Anyway, I pick Thomas Danielson FTW.

California will be covered in snow anyway, when all the partys have started.

 

[Polish]

California will be covered in snow anyway, when all the partys have started.

Pre-Race press conference about to begin:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/follow-the-amgen-tour-of-california-press-conference-live

Hopefully, the Party Plans will be discussed.
Maybe Mr Kimmage is in attendance again this year?
Hope so.