Amstel Gold Race 2023, one day classic, April 16 (men's)

[Bardamu]

No, I don't agree.

It was absurd to witness what transpired there.

It was absurd and it looked absurd and van Vliet and Planckaert are idiots. However looking back it had much less impact than what happened in Flanders two weeks ago.

 

[search]

Madouas must've done an insane race coming back to the first bigger group after that crash. He was on the ground and his bike was broken so had to wait for a new one. Ferron also came from far (although he was not down that long).

FDJ really needs to do something about Madouas his positioning. Not the first time he gets caught in a crash or misses a split because of bad positioning.

they should definitely work on it, but I think this crash actually happened at the very front. Even a Bahrain rider went down, and they were all riding in the top 5 positions before.

 

[tobydawq]

It was absurd and it looked absurd and van Vliet and Planckaert are idiots. However looking back it had much less impact than what happened in Flanders two weeks ago.

Yes, Pogacar would have won anyway but my God it was a stupid act.

 

[OlavEH]

Even though I don't think anybody could have beaten Pog today, I miss some more typical hilly classics specialists both in cycling general and especially yesterday. Ala is away and possibly on a declining career curve. Pidcock and possibly Healy and Hirschi may be the best contenders in the future, and I certainly hope that they develope into stable top level riders (Pidcock may fit that description already). Top 4-10 yesterday wasn't very impressive names so we need something more than that to put pressure and Pog and also Remco, Van der Poel and Van Aert when they choose to enter the Ardennes races.

 

[SafeBet]

Even though I don't think anybody could have beaten Pog today, I miss some more typical hilly classics specialists both in cycling general and especially yesterday. Ala is away and possibly on a declining career curve. Pidcock and possibly Healy and Hirschi may be the best contenders in the future, and I certainly hope that they develope into stable top level riders (Pidcock may fit that description already). Top 4-10 yesterday wasn't very impressive names so we need something more than that to put pressure and Pog and also Remco, Van der Poel and Van Aert when they choose to enter the Ardennes races.

Top4-10 is full of those typical hilly classic specialists who would have contested the win in both Amstel and Liege 10 years ago (most of them are young too).
It's just that the top tier is now on a whole different level compared to 10 years ago, so the good riders have no shot at winning unless something dramatic happens.

I heard a Twitch show with Bettiol and he said that when VdP, Van Aert, Pogacar and Remco are at the start of a one day race the other riders in the peloton know they're riding for placements (which is consistent with what we witness during races, ie riders pulling in a group with Pog or Remco despite knowing they will be dropped).
And Bettiol is a Monument winner.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Top4-10 is full of those typical hilly classic specialists who would have contested the win in both Amstel and Liege 10 years ago (most of them are young too).
It's just that the top tier is now on a whole different level compared to 10 years ago, so the good riders have no shot at winning unless something dramatic happens.

I heard a Twitch show with Bettiol and he said that when VdP, Van Aert, Pogacar and Remco are at the start of a one day race the other riders in the peloton know they're riding for placements (which is consistent with what we witness during races, ie riders pulling in a group with Pog or Remco despite knowing they will be dropped).
And Bettiol is a Monument winner.

Guys like Purito, Valverde, Gilbert would smoke the opponents Pogacar or Remco are facing. I still think this generation is better but let's not pretend guys like Woods, Teuns, WVA or even MVP are on par with Bala, Gilbert or Purito in hilly races. Maybe in Amstel against Bala or Purito but in Lombardia, Fleche, LBL, Olympics like Rio or WC like Firenze, they would be smashed with no mercy.
Even If we look to cobbled races, Cancellara is definetly better than Pedersen, Kung, Ganna or Asgreen. But I will repeat, this generation is better. I just think second tier riders are way weaker these days compared to first tier riders 10 years ago.

 

[Scarponi]

Guys like Purito, Valverde, Gilbert would smoke the opponents Pogacar or Remco are facing. I still think this generation is better but let's not pretend guys like Woods, Teuns, WVA or even MVP are on par with Bala, Gilbert or Purito in hilly races. Maybe in Amstel against Bala or Purito but in Lombardia, Fleche, LBL, Olympics like Rio or WC like Firenze, they would be smashed with no mercy.
Even If we look to cobbled races, Cancellara is definetly better than Pedersen, Kung, Ganna or Asgreen. But I will repeat, this generation is better. I just think second tier riders are way weaker these days compared to first tier riders 10 years ago.

It’s getting ridiculous how people are just dismissing what happened last 5-12 years.

 

[Salvarani]

Even though I don't think anybody could have beaten Pog today, I miss some more typical hilly classics specialists both in cycling general and especially yesterday. Ala is away and possibly on a declining career curve. Pidcock and possibly Healy and Hirschi may be the best contenders in the future, and I certainly hope that they develope into stable top level riders (Pidcock may fit that description already). Top 4-10 yesterday wasn't very impressive names so we need something more than that to put pressure and Pog and also Remco, Van der Poel and Van Aert when they choose to enter the Ardennes races.

I think most of the top 4-10 have a good chance to become "impressive names" in the future.

Guys like Zingle and Skjelmose are already semi-established. They are getting better and better.

Bagioli, Kron and Van Gils has had good results so far and still developing.

I think we will see more from most of the above riders in the future.

Kamp is the current Danish national champion and has had good form in the last few races. Looking like a very good signing for Tudor.

Lutsenko is an experienced rider, who just won Giro di Sicilia days before the race.

Right outside top 10 you had Madouas, who rode incredibly well after being involved in a big crash in the peloton. Hindley had a good performance in the first race in a while for him. Ferron won Paris-Cambert just before this race.

 

[Lequack]

Behind the scenes at UAE

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTFni-Qm3Ns

 

[Netserk]

Any Strava users who will check when Pogi et al. got away? Was it on Huls or Vrakelberg?

 

[red_flanders]

I tried to resist commenting on Vaughters' bleating about the drafting, but I listened to The Move Podcast this morning, and it was gratifying listening to Armstrong mocking that team and obviously Vaughters who he clearly thinks is an buffoon. Made me laugh.

 

[staubsauger]

Guys like Purito, Valverde, Gilbert would smoke the opponents Pogacar or Remco are facing. I still think this generation is better but let's not pretend guys like Woods, Teuns, WVA or even MVP are on par with Bala, Gilbert or Purito in hilly races. Maybe in Amstel against Bala or Purito but in Lombardia, Fleche, LBL, Olympics like Rio or WC like Firenze, they would be smashed with no mercy.
Even If we look to cobbled races, Cancellara is definetly better than Pedersen, Kung, Ganna or Asgreen. But I will repeat, this generation is better. I just think second tier riders are way weaker these days compared to first tier riders 10 years ago.

Those riders don't exist anymore, because courses suited to them rarely exist. Amstel & Liege both changed routes.

Maybe Cosnefroy would have been picked up by a big team and developed completely different if all Ardennes classics would still end in an uphill sprint?

Hirschi is constantly injured.

With today's courses, the likes of Oscar Camenzind either would've tried to become gc contenders fully or specialize on pave classics as well. Which is in fact what Cosnefroy tried this season and Lutsenko has tried before attending Omloop & Across Flanders!

 

[Didinho]

Any Strava users who will check when Pogi et al. got away? Was it on Huls or Vrakelberg?

On the Vrakel he got a top 10 time. Same as Healy, Vermeersch, Sheffield and Zingle.

 

[SafeBet]

Guys like Purito, Valverde, Gilbert would smoke the opponents Pogacar or Remco are facing. I still think this generation is better but let's not pretend guys like Woods, Teuns, WVA or even MVP are on par with Bala, Gilbert or Purito in hilly races. Maybe in Amstel against Bala or Purito but in Lombardia, Fleche, LBL, Olympics like Rio or WC like Firenze, they would be smashed with no mercy.
Even If we look to cobbled races, Cancellara is definetly better than Pedersen, Kung, Ganna or Asgreen. But I will repeat, this generation is better. I just think second tier riders are way weaker these days compared to first tier riders 10 years ago.

I think you should check the podiums of AGR and Liege from 2011 to 2019.
You'll find plenty of Gasparotto, Vanendert, Gerrans, Kreuziger, Albasini, Valgren, Dan Martin. Incidentally Purito never won either race.

Valverde and Gilbert were obviously on a different tier but especially the first one often rode in such a passive way that many lower level riders had a shot at winning Amstel and Liege. This doesn't happen anymore. And I don't think today's second tier riders are particularly worse than the second tier riders i mentioned earlier. They just look worse because they are consistently dominated.

 

[Netserk]

On the Vrakel he got a top 10 time. Same as Healy, Vermeersch, Sheffield and Zingle.

I meant compared his speed to that of some of the riders behind. Then you can see exactly where on the course he got away. They could have extended their lead on Vrakelberg, but already with a gap.

 

[Bardamu]

Any Strava users who will check when Pogi et al. got away? Was it on Huls or Vrakelberg?

Tosh vd Sande initiated the attack halfway the Vrakelberg. Gaudu got dropped there.

 

[Red Rick]

Tosh vd Sande initiated the attack halfway the Vrakelberg. Gaudu got dropped there.

Big time irony if Jumbo Visma started it all

 

[Netserk]

Tosh vd Sande initiated the attack halfway the Vrakelberg. Gaudu got dropped there.

Wow, really?! When we get coverage, there are no Jumbo riders in the first half of the peloton, at a moment when an immediately organised chase could still close it down with ease. And then we see who is in the group ...

 

[Didinho]

Wow, really?! When we get coverage, there are no Jumbo riders in the first half of the peloton, at a moment when an immediately organised chase could still close it down with ease. And then we see who is in the group ...

Yeah what Bardamu said.
I think on Sporza I saw some coverage of the attack and who went with him but I can't find it right now.

 

[Bardamu]

Yeah what Bardamu said.
I think on Sporza I saw some coverage of the attack and who went with him but I can't find it right now.

The coverage started with Vermeersch attacking from the lead group on the descent of the Vrakelberg/Fromberg, they were already away from the peloton after attacking on the Fromberg.
I think people underestimate how tough the middle part of the Amstel is, half of the peloton was already cooked on the Vrakelberg.

 

[Netserk]

Eurosport coverage started on the plateau after Vrakelberg, before they got to the top of Fromberg.

 

[Bardamu]

Eurosport coverage started on the plateau after Vrakelberg, before they got to the top of Fromberg.

Yeah if you go left on the top of the Vrakelberg you get to the top of Fromberg

 

[Netserk]

Not if you stay on that road.

 

[search]

wasn't able to find any coverage from further out than 91k either, but according to van den Berg, it was Tosh who initiated it indeed:

Lars van den Berg reed in kopgroep Amstel Gold Race met Pogacar: 'Super mooi'

Ineens reed hij daar, in de kopgroep van de Amstel Gold Race. Lars van den Berg uit De Meern, zij aan zij met de wereldtoppers Tadej Pogacar en Tom Pidcock. En dat na een voorjaar waarin hij na een val geruime tijd was uitgeschakeld door een blessure. Een dag later blikt de 24-jarige wielrenner...

www.rtvutrecht.nl

 

[Netserk]

I could understand Valter giving it a go at that point, but Van der Sande?! And then with no teammates near the front of the peloton afterwards ...