BroDeal said:I am waiting for Ricco to lend his support. That'll be gold.
Ricardo Ricco @thecobra
Oops. I stepped in a Wiggins.
THAT was gold!
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BroDeal said:I am waiting for Ricco to lend his support. That'll be gold.
Ricardo Ricco @thecobra
Oops. I stepped in a Wiggins.
Nuash65 said:I'm going to throw my thoughts into this thread.
Firstly, I think Wiggins was wrong to use that language and I do like the OP's letter.
You'll notice that I have very few posts, even though I've been a member for a while. I learned a lot about cycling and doping from reading the Clinic and yet I never joined in. Indeed I only registered to ask if it was ok for a lurker to join the forum velogames minileague a couple of years ago. The reason is that SOME of the posters are so nasty – to each other, about certain cyclists and to newbies who dare to speak.
A lot of very intelligent stuff is posted and maybe the “banter” is meant to be just that. Maybe I need a thicker skin but I just never wanted to risk getting caught up in the slagging matches so I remained quiet. In fact I read the Clinic less and less because very little changes - it often feels like some members would be lost if drugs could magically be removed from the sport.
If I was Wiggins and I came to CN and read the forum I would be beyond horrified. The vitriol for him as a person and as a rider, never mind any suspicions of doping, is so extreme. I'd be wondering “how can people I've never met hate me SO much?” I'd be thinking how I've given everything I can to be the best cyclist I can be and yet CYCLING FANS despise me more than if I ran a major bank.
What I'm saying doesn't excuse his language but I want to say that I can imagine how he could be driven to such extreme anger towards and intolerance of anonymous critics. Quite apart from this, I think the forum might have a lot more contributors and be a nicer place to chat with other fans if it was less toxic.
Shaun Armstrong.
docbarber said:Great post by the OP. Don't tell me these ain't the droids I'm looking for, Wigs. When you ride a bike for a living, you owe the public a debt of courtesy and gratitude. Sometimes, when they are working hard, the press digs for truth. And we, the long standing, ride loving riders, long suffering fans, deserve basic courtesy in the response of a wanna be champion.
We watch the tour because we love being out on the road ourselves, and we can only imagine the intensity of the experience of going full gas every day for three weeks, on beautiful roads, with full support, against the cream of the crop.
Don't **** in our corn flakes, Bradley. Grow up and learn how to speak to your employers.
Cavalier said:Because it's become abundantly clear that the pro-peloton are aware of us;
More accurately, dear people applauding Bradley Wiggins for his foul-mouthed tirade today:
I'd like to outline why I think you're all massive hypocrites, and why you get the reaction from people that you do.
We've sat by for years - for some of you, your entire professional careers - and watched the sport.
We've sat through almost 30 years of doped riders, of positive tests, of confiscated victories weeks, months and sometimes years after they were awarded.
But most importantly, we sat by whilst all of this was going on, and you did nothing.
You didn't speak out then.
You didn't speak up against people you knew were doping.
You didn't speak up against your teammates when you knew they were doping.
All you ex-T-mobile riders didn't say anything about the visits to Freiberg.
You didn't say anything when riders gave evidence about what they'd seen, and were harassed because of it.
Some of you, through your inaction, did nothing about that harassment. Those of you who raced with Lance Armstrong said nothing back then.
Those of you who raced in 1998 complained about your rights and your dignity.
You didn't complain about those people who stripped them from you by cheating.
You didn't applaud those people who tried to out the real cheats within the ranks.
You didn't chastise those people taking trips to Spain and Italy to see doctors. In fact, some of you did it yourself.
You complained about early morning drug tests.
You complained about out of competition drug tests, and you complained about whereabouts forms and not having a private life, and media intrusion.
And some of you still ride today, still having said nothing about doping.
I'll say this: I've sat up until 3 in the morning every July for countless years now. I've watched, I've supported, even some of you who turned out to be cheats. I've dreamed of being in the position you're in, of having a tenth of the talent you're blessed enough to have, because no amount of hard work will make up for the gap. So when I'm at work at 7am, busting my rear end to make ends meet for the next ten hours for a tiny bit of what you get, remember this, every one of you who applaud Wiggins abusing those of us who ask questions:
We ask the questions because you refused to.
We get suspicious because we're tired of seeing more than half of the last 13 TdF titles get stripped and re-awarded.
We're tired of you guys continually saying "We're clean" and then seeing someone test positive.
We're tired of seeing you complain about us, because we got tired of seeing you cheat us as fans, by not taking matters into your own hands, getting rid of - and speaking out against - those who are doping, and have doped.
You give your blood values and power numbers happily to the ASO, and treat us with contempt, like we're just supposed to watch, buy your sponsor's products, and cheer on demand.
You do nothing to dispel doping suspicions, to out cheats, and to clean up the sport. You are the blight on the sport, not us.
Footnote: I'd include a list of riders DS's and who have publicly announced their support for Wiggins and his remarks, but I find them abhorrent now.
e: I realise the irony of me posting this under a pseudonym. To all those cyclists and staff members on twitter who echo his thought, my personal details are available to you on request. All you have to do is ask.
Further edit: Now you no longer need to ask. https://twitter.com/sportnstuff
180mmCrank said:It s better when winners or athletes in general are gracious and Wiggins has clearly a lot to Learn about handling the media. His words were ill chosen. However this is not (US) Pro Sports he does not owe any of us anything beyond common courtesy - even as a SKY subscriber it would be a stretch to say you are his employer - and I doubt you are a SKY subscriber.
T
daveinzambia said:I agree with the sentiment in the letter and understand most peoples feeling about it
but i also think there is a lack of understanding the other way
if you were clean. if you had been through what he has (all of them have) to get to the tour lead. then when you get the one thing you have dreamed off all your life the cycling forums and twitter are flooded (and it is a flood just take a look at here, twitter, velorooms elsewhere) with hate, accusations etc then you are going to be ****ed off.
then every (and i fairly confident it happens at everyone) press conference you go to you are asked about the same thing, over and over again. in many cases the guys asking are doing so are doing it to needle the riders (ok bad choice of words) and get exactly what they got, a reaction.
lets not make out the entire word of online cycling fans to be a bunch of angels and lets definitely not make journos out to be innocent. there is a sizeable number of online fans, especially on twitter who go way beyond cynical distrust.
yes his response was unprofessional (but then last year we were complaining about the PR sanitised riders on leopard) but i think is perfectly understandable and frankly think the reaction is slightly over the top
180mmCrank said:Fair point ... And there is a bit of a difference between the sponsors and the people that buy energy bars and bike parts ... They are not his employers. Should he be respectful - yes and what he said was far from that but I still maintain its a stretch to say he owes them his living.
He has worked his @ss off to get to where he is ... As I imagine you have too ... It touches a hot spot for me when people talk about athletes having a duty to the fans ... Something about it misses the mark for me.
But you won't get any argument from me that his words are unhelpful and ill chosen.
T
Cavalier said:Brad Wiggins, the world is now watching. Let us see how you respond to the questions regarding Cofidis. Everyone will expect the yellow jersey to make a statement which reverberates around the world. You criticised us, now direct it at those who deserve it, and don't hold back.
stampedingviking said:He has already directed his venom against (some of) those who deserve it.
What gives anybody the right to hurl accusations around without any hard proof (being anti-British and anti-Sky is not proof).
The OP should also have a rant against the (millions of?) viewers who sit there every year lapping up the TdeF and other races; if you weren't responsible for the viewing figures sponsors would start asking questions/pull out because it would no longer be worth their sponsorship $.
It's not just the riders, it's YOU, the faceless habitual viewer who is to blame.
stampedingviking said:He has already directed his venom against (some of) those who deserve it.
What gives anybody the right to hurl accusations around without any hard proof (being anti-British and anti-Sky is not proof).
The OP should also have a rant against the (millions of?) viewers who sit there every year lapping up the TdeF and other races; if you weren't responsible for the viewing figures sponsors would start asking questions/pull out because it would no longer be worth their sponsorship $.
It's not just the riders, it's YOU, the faceless habitual viewer who is to blame.
Benotti69 said:So in short Wiggins is doping for the fans. Way to go Wiggo!
Nope he dopes because he is on the richest team in cycling and they need him to win the biggest race in the world.
Riders dope because they believe they cannot win without it or they think others are doping so they need to to keep up and have a chance of winning or they they need to dope to get a contract and have a job. Nothing to do with us. We don't ask them to dope.
Cycling gets small viewing figures and most of the sponsors know the sport is dirty. Tinkoff sponsored doping teams before and are now back with Riis who have Contador. Rabobank are still here even after a team doping program. Their doping doctor has gone to TeamSky by the way. Cofidis are here after being thrown of the 2007 tour. Sponsors know the sport.
That some of the faceless viewers are making their voices heard is reason to get angry with them? There is thread in here about all the products and companies Armstrong is linked with in someway. Posters in here correlated all that info for habitual fans to avoid giving him hard earned.
stampedingviking said:But at what point/viewing level does it not become viable for sponsors to continue?
Benotti69 said:It doesn't because advertising is about name recognition. It is about placing the brand into a person's subconscious whether that can be done with good publicity (the preferred method) or bad publicity (the less preferred method but still effective) it is all publicity at the end of the day.
What I meant (probably didn't make too clear) was if the numbers of spectators reduced because of 'scandals' at what level would it become uneconmic or would sponsors just continue anyway?Benotti69 said:It doesn't because advertising is about name recognition. It is about placing the brand into a person's subconscious whether that can be done with good publicity (the preferred method) or bad publicity (the less preferred method but still effective) it is all publicity at the end of the day.
Take Armstrong, still got a lot of sponsors, but they are dropping slowly as the bad publicity racks up to where he is seen to be only viewed in the negative and therefore the brand will be associated with that negative.
When is the last time Twek bikes had him in an ad on here? long long time ago.
Now they are using the Schlecks who have done little in comparison.
Also remember that a lot of cyclings smaller sponsors are big fans of the sport and will do the fanboy thing, turn a blind eye to the dirty side, especially if they can see their logo emblazoned across the winners chest.