Another U.S. Postal Rider confirms systematic doping within team - N.Y. Times

[JRTinMA]

Question for the chemists as I don't follow the technology of doping that close... I thought HGH was a muscle building thing, used outside of competition to build muscle (at least, that's how I understood it works in baseball). Is it used during races as well... and if so to what point? Does it stop muscle degradation?

I am not a Chemist but I do work in a lab! I believe the biggest benefit of HGH is recover. It speeds muscle recover so you are ready to roll out the next morning. I'm sure this would be a huge benefit in a stage race, maybe not so much in a classic. Keep in mind as well that doping has great phycological impact as well, you believe you can't be beat when you are doping and that accounts for a small percentage of the improvement as well. The rest is just the dope.

 

[Anonymous]

I know y'all are licking your chops and I'm sure the case will gain a lot more momentum. But don't get your hopes up too high for LA's lynching any time soon.

If the 'roids case against Bonds and Clemens are any indication of the speed that the gov't works then we're in for a loooong and slooooww ride. Remember they had lots of evidence and witnesses too. Still nothing...

And if the Repubs regain the White House don't think that Governor Armstrong won't try to pull some strings...

 

[Race Radio]

I know y'all are licking your chops and I'm sure the case will gain a lot more momentum. But don't get your hopes up too high for LA's lynching any time soon.

If the 'roids case against Bonds and Clemens are any indication of the speed that the gov't works then we're in for a loooong and slooooww ride. Remember they had lots of evidence and witnesses too. Still nothing...

And if the Repubs regain the White House don't think that Governor Armstrong won't try to pull some strings...

Not exactly. The BALCO case has resulted in convictions or plea's for 10 out of 11. The Bonds case has dragged on because there is only one witness, who refused to testify. There are many more in Armstrong's case but I can see why the groupies would want to pretend that it is only Landis.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I am not a Chemist but I do work in a lab! I believe the biggest benefit of HGH is recover. It speeds muscle recover so you are ready to roll out the next morning. I'm sure this would be a huge benefit in a stage race, maybe not so much in a classic. Keep in mind as well that doping has great phycological impact as well, you believe you can't be beat when you are doping and that accounts for a small percentage of the improvement as well. The rest is just the dope.

The benefit is there for 1 day races as well, if you recover quicker you can train that much harder.

 

[Oldman]

Not exactly. The BALCO case has resulted in convictions or plea's for 10 out of 11. The Bonds case has dragged on because there is only one witness, who refused to testify. There are many more in Armstrong's case but I can see why the groupies would want to pretend that it is only Landis.

and the witness that won't testify is in....yes, JAIL. How many skinny cyclists could take a day in a Federal prison excercise yard?

 

[Hugh Januss]

and the witness that won't testify is in....yes, JAIL. How many skinny cyclists could take a day in a Federal prison excercise yard?

And how many would risk it for Armstrong?
It is kind of funny to watch the fanboys run out of options, but they are a determined group. I guess if "it will be a long time before they put my hero in prison" works for them, then they should go with it.

 

[dbrower]

Landis remains steadfast in his denial that he doped using testo in the 2006 tour. He has never admitted to testo doping. He may have admitted to blood doping (packed cells xfusion) but its not clear he admitted to that specifically in the 2006 tour. If you read his statements carefully he has chosen his words very wisely.

Absolutely incorrect, on just about every count, suggesting severely impaired reading comprehension skills. Landis has admitted being on doping programs since being introduced by Bruyneel, personally, at Postal; and in being on a full program at Phonak, and having taken testosterone throughout, but at having stopped testosterone prior to the 2006 tour in favor of HgH.

Now, there is good debate whether the "I stopped testosterone" claim is true, or another lie, but that is the only thing he's making any attempt to dispute.

And the major point of that claim, which it seems almost everyone, esp. M. Verbuggen have missed or chosen to gloss over, is that none of the tests ever caught what he was doing, so the testing regime is (and probably remains) completely worthless. He seems to believe the testing in his case was broken, and my lengthy look at the details would not exclude that.

-dB

 

[dbrower]

He has never specifically said he doped during the tour.

FAIL. He very explicitly admitted blood doping, IV EPO, and Hgh during the tour, none of which was caught.

-dB

 

[dbrower]

I'm getting tired of whether or how Lance doped.

What I want to see is a list of medications (quantity and type) being taken by members of the US legislature.

Now that would be interesting....

Then you are in the wrong forum.

-dB

 

[JRTinMA]

Not exactly. The BALCO case has resulted in convictions or plea's for 10 out of 11. The Bonds case has dragged on because there is only one witness, who refused to testify. There are many more in Armstrong's case but I can see why the groupies would want to pretend that it is only Landis.

I believe only Thomas and Graham were convicted. Of course, Bonds is still under indictment and the big pleas were Conte and Anderson to avoid the trial. In wasn't widely covered because its old news but Tammy Thomas did just lose her appeal. She really wanted the appeal so she could practice law (she finished law school after being banned for life) but such is not the case as the decision was upheld. I hate dopers but man that is some harsh sh*t.

 

[JRTinMA]

FAIL. He very explicitly admitted blood doping, IV EPO, and Hgh during the tour, none of which was caught.

-dB

Wow, fail?!? I hope I made your day with you getting to correct me twice. I still can't find it in any of the WSJ or NYT articles but I will take your word on it boss.

 

[hrotha]

Wow, fail?!? I hope I made your day with you getting to correct me twice. I still can't find it in any of the WSJ or NYT articles but I will take your word on it boss.

Those articles are about Armstrong, not about Landis. Try reading Landis' original e-mail.

 

[ManInFull]

I believe only Thomas and Graham were convicted. Of course, Bonds is still under indictment and the big pleas were Conte and Anderson to avoid the trial. In wasn't widely covered because its old news but Tammy Thomas did just lose her appeal. She really wanted the appeal so she could practice law (she finished law school after being banned for life) but such is not the case as the decision was upheld. I hate dopers but man that is some harsh sh*t.

Talking to a LA groupie about this is like talking to someone who still believes that OJ Simpson didn't murder two people.

 

[dbrower]

Wow, fail?!? I hope I made your day with you getting to correct me twice. I still can't find it in any of the WSJ or NYT articles but I will take your word on it boss.

Look at Bonnie Ford's ESPN articles, where she has the most lengthy interview segments.

And for those who've accused Landis of being a publicity *****, I'm aware of just three sets of interviews -- with the WSJ, with Ford, and Nightline. The NYT doesn't seemed to have gotten one, but has done its own research and referred to the information in the other reports. Ditto the Daily News.

-dB

 

[ManInFull]

I know y'all are licking your chops and I'm sure the case will gain a lot more momentum. But don't get your hopes up too high for LA's lynching any time soon.

If the 'roids case against Bonds and Clemens are any indication of the speed that the gov't works then we're in for a loooong and slooooww ride. Remember they had lots of evidence and witnesses too. Still nothing...

And if the Repubs regain the White House don't think that Governor Armstrong won't try to pull some strings...

However, can you find anyone who doesn't believe that Bonds and Clemens doped? The tide of public opinion changed even without some official conviction or an admission. The same thing will happen to LA.

It would be nice to hear LA say, under oath, "I'm not here to talk about the past".

 

[Kennf1]

Is this the PR back-up plan? Let them all dope?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...07/15/steroids/index.html?xid=cnnbin&hpt=Sbin

 

[MacRoadie]

It would be nice to hear LA say, under oath, "I'm not here to talk about the past".

Is going from a sure-fire, first ballot Hall of Famer to the hitting coach for the Cardinals the same as going from targetting a Tour win to "winning" the "coveted" Team Classification?

 

[JRTinMA]

Talking to a LA groupie about this is like talking to someone who still believes that OJ Simpson didn't murder two people.

So you hate the truth? Is that what I'm supposed to read? You don't know where I stand on LA so I would say you have shown your ignorance. Think what Lincoln said next time. Keep in mind as well that just because you pile on with the fellowship of the miserable on this forum doesn't mean your right. I have clearly stated before my stance on LA far more eloquent than our bigoted OJ reference.

 

[Anonymous]

And how many would risk it for Armstrong?
It is kind of funny to watch the fanboys run out of options, but they are a determined group. I guess if "it will be a long time before they put my hero in prison" works for them, then they should go with it.

I'm sure a lot of them would because they know the payoff at the end. Just like with Greg Anderson. That's why he's not talking.

I just don't have a lot of faith in Feds taking it all the way. Meanwhile, the key players, Barry and Roger, are still sitting in their huge mansions by their pool. I don't expect that to change anytime soon. Just like it isn't realistic to think that LA won't be their with them poolside for a long time.

And it's funny how the lance-hater-fanboys are so quick to throw out the Lance fanboy card when someone is just trying to state the obvious stall tactics Lance's legal team, like Barry's and Roger's, will throw out. You know it's gonna happen no matter how much you hate or love the guy.

 

[buckwheat]

And how many would risk it for Armstrong?
It is kind of funny to watch the fanboys run out of options, but they are a determined group. I guess if "it will be a long time before they put my hero in prison" works for them, then they should go with it.

I think this is the most interesting aspect of the whole Pharmstrong saga. The idolatry is really pathetic.

 

[Oldman]

I believe only Thomas and Graham were convicted. Of course, Bonds is still under indictment and the big pleas were Conte and Anderson to avoid the trial. In wasn't widely covered because its old news but Tammy Thomas did just lose her appeal. She really wanted the appeal so she could practice law (she finished law school after being banned for life) but such is not the case as the decision was upheld. I hate dopers but man that is some harsh sh*t.

Maybe harsh but, having met her and knowing her history would anyone consider her the best choice for an attorney? She should have pursued cycling as a clean hobby and concentrated on her career if it was important.

 

[Anonymous]

However, can you find anyone who doesn't believe that Bonds and Clemens doped? The tide of public opinion changed even without some official conviction or an admission. The same thing will happen to LA.

It would be nice to hear LA say, under oath, "I'm not here to talk about the past".

I agree with you, public opinion will certainly sway against LA. I'm just saying that we shouldn't expect a conviction any time soon.

 

[Darryl Webster]

No, I just have a finally-honed sense of what's right and what's wrong (according to psychological tests, my personality type is a "Guardian-Inspector").

You, d have got get on well with this "fella"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbqra7kRXbk&feature=related

 

[MacRoadie]

So you hate the truth? Is that what I'm supposed to read? You don't know where I stand on LA so I would say you have shown your ignorance. Think what Lincoln said next time. Keep in mind as well that just because you pile on with the fellowship of the miserable on this forum doesn't mean your right. I have clearly stated before my stance on LA far more eloquent than our bigoted OJ reference.

Maybe you might try expanding your perception of the "truth" beyond what you can glean from two or three spoon-fed articles in one or two publications?

It's ironic that you should spout this self-serving, diatribe about the relative merits of your clearly lazy and limited understanding of the facts at hand, compared to those of people on here who actually bother to research the background information.

Keep in mind, Lincoln also said:

"I believe it is an established maxim in morals that he who makes an assertion without knowing whether it is true or false, is guilty of falsehood; and the accidental truth of the assertion, does not justify or excuse him."

and:

"I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts."

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Landis has admitted being on doping programs since being introduced by Bruyneel, personally, at Postal; and in being on a full program at Phonak, and having taken testosterone throughout, but at having stopped testosterone prior to the 2006 tour in favor of HgH.

Now, there is good debate whether the "I stopped testosterone" claim is true, or another lie, but that is the only thing he's making any attempt to dispute.

There have been debates as to the possibility that Landis doped with blood "tainted' with testesterone, and it was enough to trigger the positive. But as you say, it's almost moot. The point is he was freely doped to the gills and knows many others who were as well, and just as Bernard Kohl said, no testing came close to catching him for 99% of what he was doing.

That's the real point not being discussed enough here. The ratio of false negatives is alarming. It shows just out frivolous testing is, and how easy it is to get away with doping.