Another U.S. Postal Rider confirms systematic doping within team - N.Y. Times

[mastersracer]

I'm not holding out for a conviction. All that matters to me is a significant change in public opinion. A conviction is just icing on the cake.

Many people are vastly over-estimating the general public's interest in this story, especially in the US.

 

[MacRoadie]

Unless they get more than the testimony of admitted liars and cheaters all he has to do is deny it. Who else would be in a positiion to testify except admitted dopers who were there when it happened?

Ah, the "logic" is becoming more clear...

In order for your testiomony to have weight, you must have been a doper, but if you're a doper, you're a cheat who can't be trusted...

 

[CPAvelo]

I'm not holding out for a conviction. All that matters to me is a significant change in public opinion. A conviction is just icing on the cake.

I'm not either, but a conviction would be some damn fine icing. If patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel, then I would love to avoid seeing LA fans take refuge in no conviction. Kinda like LA defending his illusory innocence by claiming he has never tested positive for anything more than a skin cream.

 

[buckwheat]

Many people are vastly over-estimating the general public's interest in this story, especially in the US.

I used to believe that.

Most of the Armstrong followers know very little about cycling and follow because of the yellow bands. They're howling in disbelief now.

 

[Tim_sleepless]

No matter who might testify against him, they'll need tangible evidence to prove perjury--that is to say physical evidence that he doped-- not just witnesses. .

Just two witnesses are needed to prove perjury. Physical evidence is not needed.

 

[CPAvelo]

Many people are vastly over-estimating the general public's interest in this story, especially in the US.

What are you basing this on? If true, why this AP article about how scandal may hurt LA Foundation: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hF6-n0BpcNqYORFKqOBHfw-lZxMwD9HC62K80

 

[mastersracer]

spend some time on Google Trends - the US public has forgotten about him...

 

[CPAvelo]

spend some time on Google Trends - the US public has forgotten about him...

Happened faster than I imagined. Sliding into relative obscurity. Guess that explains why FRS is planning a US TV PR campaign in October.

What is going to happen to millions of yellow Livestrong wristbands?

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I think they're just not into cyclists who act like arrogant pr!cks Remember, they spat on Anquetil, and weren't to fond of Hinault or Fignon, either.

I remember back to the 80's. It was peculiar that LeMond had almost as many French fans as Hinault, and more than Fignon.

Creed seems a likely possibility.

I'd like to hear what Mike has to say, if anything, as I tend to believe him to be one of the good guys. He also raced on Rock last year, and was fired from the team early in the season for "lack of results", which put him into a bind as it was very difficult to find another team then. I wonder what, if anything, Mike knows about Rock's troubles as well.

Most of the Armstrong followers know very little about cycling and follow because of the yellow bands. They're howling in disbelief now.

Long before these allegations, I experienced this over a year ago on group rides. As I'm now older, slower and fatter, I sometimes ride with the 15mph back of the pack folks on short group rides. Last year I had more than one ask me - without provocation - what I thought about Lance maybe doping. They didn't ask me from a state of denial. They had mentally crossed the line of it being possible, and were starting to think it was probable and wanted to know what someone who really pays attention thought, what more information was out there.

 

[Tim_sleepless]

spend some time on Google Trends - the US public has forgotten about him...

Oh I don't know.. he's hanging in there..

http://www.google.com/trends?q=lance+armstrong,+hillary+clinton&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

http://www.google.com/trends?q=lance+armstrong,+george+bush&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

http://www.google.com/trends?q=lance+armstrong,+osama+bin+laden&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

 

[Bicicleta]

spend some time on Google Trends - the US public has forgotten about him...

Now even People magazine is covering it.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20408050,00.html

Better than the article, read the comments.

 

[RdBiker]

Just two witnesses are needed to prove perjury. Physical evidence is not needed.

Do you have some article/link/etc. where I could read about this? I have no knowledge in the US justice system so it's impossible to know if what you state is true or not.

Is it really so that if you find two people who can say that what you're saying isn't true you can convict the guy of perjury?

 

[Tim_sleepless]

Do you have some article/link/etc. where I could read about this? I have no knowledge in the US justice system so it's impossible to know if what you state is true or not.

http://www.google.com/search?q=two+...&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=

 

[Boeing]

Now even People magazine is covering it.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20408050,00.html

Better than the article, read the comments.

I don't even know how to respond to some of those people comments.

are they for real?

There is a term for that type of reasoning and I just can't remember what it is it is that pathetic.....

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I don't even know how to respond to some of those people comments.

are they for real?

There is a term for that type of reasoning and I just can't remember what it is it is that pathetic.....

First, there are a ton of paid hacks padding these comments.
Second, you're getting comments from people who know nothing about cycling, much less the investigation or the issues involved.

 

[redtreviso]

There are probably several million people that think Jeff Gordon could win the Tour de France and they would fight you for disagreeing with them..These are the lance fan types.

 

[CPAvelo]

Better than the article, read the comments.

Must be where the LA Fans banned from this forum post. Now LA is the center of conspiracy to distract US citizens from the real issues. And the sport doesn't need this, blah blah blah. Blind LA allegiance may be stronger among the general populace than cycling fans. Americans cleave to the hero icons, even during disgrace. Partly explains the enormous income potential of fraud.

 

[Barrus]

Second, you're getting comments from people who know nothing about cycling, much less the investigation or the issues involved.

Funniest is the fact that they claim that anyone who believes that LA did dope and that Landis his allegations might be correct, are people who know nothing about cycling, much less the investigation or the issues involved.

It really is quite hilarious

 

[Boeing]

First, there are a ton of paid hacks padding these comments.
Second, you're getting comments from people who know nothing about cycling, much less the investigation or the issues involved.

to add

Lapel Pin Logic.

I am more moral than you, more patriotic and support the troops more the you and fight breast cancer more than you and support Live Strong more than you.

therefore those I support are innocent and better than the ones you support

Only Lance and Carl Rove know how to massage this herd

 

[Boeing]

and may i remind all you looking in on the US from abroad. This is our Electorate

 

[RdBiker]

http://www.google.com/search?q=two+...&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=

Thanks. I did a quick google search but found only links to "Testimony in Jewish Law"...

The law clearly states that at least two independent witnesses are required for perjury. In this case are the witnesses independent if they have been riders in the same team? Or what is required for a witness to be independent (googled for that too but didn't find anything good)

 

[Anonymous]

Actually I don't think this will even be part of the prosecution. It's just a moral point and a question of whether it's right to make things up to make someone look even worse than they are.

We should be careful not to get carried away with the caricature of Armstrong and pretend this one guy created the doping culture in the sport just because we don't like his personality. We know from Landis that he in fact went to Bruyneel with the idea of doping before anyone had put it to him. That will be the case for most riders who knew it was rampant across the sport and this is what they needed to do to succeed. And this idea that it would be sprung on them during the middle of a tour, as Race Radio suggested, is a non-starter. People who know about the sport know that is not how it works. The teams will have doped long before the tour started and planned out exactly what dope they were going to do during the tour itself.

Well, Arbiter, no one is arguing this.

Nice try. How's the Starbucks today?

 

[CPAvelo]

We should be careful not to get carried away with the caricature of Armstrong and pretend this one guy created the doping culture in the sport just because we don't like his personality.

I think it is more satire than caricature. It really is not about LA's personality, nor do I believe it is distorted.

He clearly did not create the doping culture. But, surely he has exploited it to personal gain more than any other. He also left a host of victims in his wake. Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony.

 

[Kennf1]

We should be careful not to get carried away with the caricature of Armstrong and pretend this one guy created the doping culture in the sport just because we don't like his personality.

Well, since no one is saying that, I think we're safe.

 

[MacRoadie]

I don't even know how to respond to some of those people comments.

are they for real?

There is a term for that type of reasoning and I just can't remember what it is it is that pathetic.....

Somehow I think Emma, Leslie, Jana, Judy, Lorie, Beckie, Claudia, Patti, Ginelle, Jordan Michelle, Miriam, and Megan are not all avid cycling fans.

Just a hunch.