Any clinic members ever doped?

[twisted pairs]

Re: Re:

Tried clen for a couple of months

How did clen work compared to dieting? Did it suppress your food cravings? Presumably you still have to eat less for clen to work.

As stated, I couldn't get there dieting. My body just wanted what it wanted and no matter how many times I tried, I couldn't summon the willpower to get there. I didn't keep a food log, but I'm confident I didn't consume any more while on Clen than I did normally while training. Clen simply kept my metabolism higher longer even on days when I was off the bike. Source (internet) and dosing were found on the web. Yes there's a schedule. Let's leave it at that.

 

[malakassis]

Re: Re:

Tried clen for a couple of months

I've often wondered about the genetics of super skinny riders. Sure some dope to get there, but some probably just have a different response to dieting (leptin and all that) or their bodies go off the catabolic cliff at a different bf%. How does clen play into this dynamic?

An unnoticed piece of (clean) dieting has to do with periodization, both on big, big scales, and shorter. Genetics of course matter, just like the genes that got them to the starting line, but years of manipulating the metabolic systems stack up, just like training. Max fat oxidation, for example, can be trained. RMR can be manipulated too. Adding/avoiding resistance training changes the hormonal profile and the way those hormones effect the body's processing of the next meal. I think there are other examples I can't remember right now...

Thanks to those who have shared so far. To what extent did you figure things out for yourself, or follow a doctor's/friend's/coach's program? How much individualization went into your experience? (If there is a way to answer without explaining what you did specifically)

testicular cancer can change metabolism lot too. a friend of mine has one ball left,had tough chemo. hes gotten way leaner like 10kg, the muscles look leaner and he has less fat.i see huge parallels to lances transformation. my friend is not on trt as his one ball produces enough test. does any one know the mechanisms of this phenomenes? i suppose both (lance and my friend) had naturally very high test so they were very muscular. with less test they lose muscle and fat/water (also less estrogen)?


all by myself. if you are using one steroid at the same time its no rocket science. side effects helped to adjust the individual dosage(too much aggression,insomnia). but we always got our blood checked in cycle and after. doping without a doc is crazy.

 

[Jacques (7 ch)]

Re: Re:

friend of mine has one ball left,had tough chemo.....my friend is not on trt as his one ball produces enough test. does any one know the mechanisms of this phenomenes? i suppose both (lance and my friend) had naturally very high test so they were very muscular. with less test they lose muscle and fat/water (also less estrogen)?


crazy.

Can't speak for LA or your pal but life with one ball (no C, no chemo) is just fine. Reproduction is no problem at all!

 

[WillemS]

I never actually used anything, but I came very, very close to it. Here's my confession.

About a decade ago, my genetic predisposition for bad joints lead to a chronic knee injury. Simply put, my knees are not up to the job of intensive training. After experimenting with potential solutions, such as position, cleat rotation, cadence and crank arm length, that did not really improve anything, I quit or rather had to quit. I wasn't ready to risk my knees for a hobby.

Just like that, I did not touch my bike for several years nor picked up any other sporting activity (running was also out of the question). The result: I got fat, really fat. Today, I'm still carrying around a few kilograms too much (euphemism), especially compared to my pre-injury weight, but my BMI is back into the green zone, hovering around the 23 mark. However, even getting back to my current weight was hard: It took me over two years to lose 28 kg and it certainly wasn't a steady, linear decline. The past year or so I've been hovering around my current weight, without being able to lose much more.

At times, I was tempted to take something that could help me speed up the process or break the occasional barrier I seemed to be stuck at. I knew people who were actually using so-called "research compounds" like the (in-)famous SARMs, had great results with them and could help me with reliable sources. At one point, I seriously considered using GW-501516 in combination with a couple of other substances, having seen what they did for others. I had already researched a schedule, talked it over with "experts" and was ready to order, but then the 2013 WADA cancer warning was released and I decided against it. In fact, I finally realised how stupid I was, seriously considering risking my health in order to fulfil my obsession with losing weight.

The darkest thing in this whole history is that I never actually and truly considered my health or the risks involved. I just didn't care, I wanted to get in shape again. It wasn't the case that I didn't know there were risks involved, but I never stopped to think about the risks and let them enter into the equation. I was obsessed, I was fed up with begin fat. I was fed up with having to drag those kilograms up the Giau. I was fed up with looking like shapeless blob of fat. I did not think straight and couldn't care less about the risks.

If I would have been a pro cyclists, then I think I would have used. I don't think I'm confident enough to go against social norms and even without most of the pressure, I was very close to using anyway.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

My experience is similar, Willem, in that the temptation to pursue assistance -- particularly as you age -- is strong. Your metabolism, etc slows down, and losing weight in particular seems impossible at times.

It was only ever an empathic acknowledgement of the temptation, however.

 

[arthurvandelay]

Re: Experiences

I personally really appreciate your openness and honesty, malakassis.

I agree with Wiggo. It's so difficult to get to the reality of what a doper does, thank you for your candor.

 

[arthurvandelay]

Re: addiction

Now imagine if your pay went from $70k to $2M because of that dope. And not only did you perform better for your own gratification, but the press talked about you, the podium girls kissed you, people paid attention to you, people started following you on twitter, companies wanted to pay you to use their products, the team starts riding for you.

Yet some people would have us believe that in 2006 everyone called a doping truce and just stopped. It suddenly became uncool.

:-/

This is something that I have mentioned before in other settings: I believe that for some people doping to improve or win becomes an addiction. Fundamentally I think it is no different than an addiction to alcohol or gambling. One starts out small, perhaps by accident or just to qualify for a slot, then the reward system kicks in and there is a lot of conscious and unconscious feedback that cycles along. Witness the "white lunch bag" reward system on US Postal/Discovery : the dudes who stepped up and produced got the white lunch bags full of doping substances, the ones who didn't were basically relegated to the B Team as pack fodder for the minor races.

 

[twisted pairs]

As long as we're confessing, I wonder how many of you use stimulants for your full time job? Considering the absolute massive and pervasive use of Methylphenidate (ritilin) or Adderall here in the states, there have to be people who believe there's no such evil as doping for your employment. Personally, I have no problem with anyone who chooses to do this.

 

[proffate]

Re:

I was fed up with looking like shapeless blob of fat. I did not think straight and couldn't care less about the risks.

to be fair, being a shapeless blob of fat is not without its own health risks, and at some point the risks of taking drugs to fix that are outweighed by the risks of staying at that weight.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

Update on my prednisone intake - finally was done with the last tapered dose of it yesterday.

Pros of it: physically it made me feel like an invincible 20yr all over again, except, that is not what I am right now. And, I'd rather be able to read/sense what my body is up to next than being on a drug that gives me a false sense of security.

Cons: it made me nauseous, and had extreme tightness in the back of the throat, think that's what they prescribed the zantac for.

I staid off the bike, after having to ingest all these pharmaceuticals (due to anaphylaxis probably caused by antibiotics due to a root canal going all wrong ), I just want to feel my normal, achy, and tired old self again.

 

[WillemS]

Re: Re:

I was fed up with looking like shapeless blob of fat. I did not think straight and couldn't care less about the risks.

to be fair, being a shapeless blob of fat is not without its own health risks, and at some point the risks of taking drugs to fix that are outweighed by the risks of staying at that weight.

Sure, being obese is very unhealthy and medication may be of help to get back into a safer zone. However, trying to lose weight by taking medication unsupervised by medical professionals and obtained via an unofficial and unreliable source has nothing to do with losing weight safely. In fact, determining whether or not taking medication is less risky than remaining at a certain weight should be done by medical professionals, not by a hobbyist guessing the treatment based on doping fora.

Moreover, I think that in most cases medication, although helpful, is not necessary. I was perfectly able to lose over 28 kg (~62 lbs) without using any medication to speed up the process. It took time and dedication, yes, but it was not impossible. I think that medicinal solutions should not be taken lightly, as a change of lifestyle, including the diet, should be the primary method.

 

[whynotme101]

I just stick to carbs, and to riding real slow.