Are Kenyan runners doped?

Mar 4, 2010
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Well, since y'all seem to be convinced that it is completely impossible to compete with dopers, then surely you must concede that there are legions of doped eastern africans in running as they are absolutely crushing all the european dopers,* right?

* I base this on the fact that 26 distance runners at the 2006 european championships had crits >50% and the cops found actovegin in the trash.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Tyler'sTwin said:
Well, since y'all seem to be convinced that it is completely impossible to compete with dopers, then surely you must concede that there are legions of doped eastern africans in running as they are absolutely crushing all the european dopers,* right?

* I base this on the fact that 26 distance runners at the 2006 european championships had crits >50% and the cops found actovegin in the trash.
You realize that the Kenyan distance running scene has been greatly influenced by a shady former cycling doctor, Gabrielle Rosa?
 
Mar 4, 2010
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What do you know about this Rosa character? I've heard about him before, but it's never backed up by anything substantial.
 

buckwheat

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Sep 24, 2009
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Tyler'sTwin said:
Well, since y'all seem to be convinced that it is completely impossible to compete with dopers, then surely you must concede that there are legions of doped eastern africans in running as they are absolutely crushing all the european dopers,* right?

* I base this on the fact that 26 distance runners at the 2006 european championships had crits >50% and the cops found actovegin in the trash.
Why stop at the Kenyans? What about the Ethiopians? Jos Hermens represents the big ones. Look at the time period the 5,000 and 10,000 records were being broken by huge margins.

Bekele's 17 year old fiance collapsed and died during training in 2005. No autopsy was performed.
 
Mar 4, 2010
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BTW, when the italians doped their runners, they determined that blood-boosting could shave 30-40 secs off of a runners 10k time.
 
Mar 4, 2010
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buckwheat said:
Why stop at the Kenyans? What about the Ethiopians? Jos Hermens represents the big ones. Look at the time period the 5,000 and 10,000 records were being broken by huge margins.
This is usually explained by them barely participating prior to the 90's. So the influx of lots of great EA's just happens to coincide with the introduction of EPO.
 

buckwheat

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Sep 24, 2009
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Tyler'sTwin said:
This is usually explained by them barely participating prior to the 90's. So the influx of lots of great EA's just happens to coincide with the introduction of EPO.
Really, what about Bikila and Yifter?
 
I used to follow athletics and in particlar distance running in the 90s, the world records were being regularly smashed by Kenyans, Ethiopians, Moroccans. This is a cliche but running was a way out of poverty for many of them, many of them had European Managers and the European track circuit was where all the cash was. I wouldnt have believed it at the time but after 98, I would not have doubted it for a second that many of them were juiced. They still had a big set of advantages over most other athletes like living at altitude, lifestyle etc.
 
Jul 2, 2009
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Tyler'sTwin said:
This is usually explained by them barely participating prior to the 90's. So the influx of lots of great EA's just happens to coincide with the introduction of EPO.
The Olympics:

1968
1500m Kip Keino (Ken) Gold
5000m Kip Keino (Ken) Silver, Taftali Temu (Ken) Bronze
10000m Taftali Temu (Kenya) Gold, Mamo Wolde (Eth), Silver
Marathon Mamo Wolde (Eth) Gold
3000m Steeplechase Amos Bowiott (Ken) Gold, Ben Kogo (Ken) Silver

1972
1500m Kip Keino (Ken) Silver
3000m Steeplechase Kip Keino (Ken) Gold, Ben Jipcho (Ken)
Marathon Mamo Wolde (Eth) Bronze

1976 - African boycott because of Kiwi rugby players

1980
5000m Miruts Yifter (Eth) Gold, Sul Nabambui (Tan) Silver
10000m Miruts Yofter (Eth) Gold, Mohammed Kedir (Eth) Bronze
3000m Steeplechase Filbert Bayi (Tan) Silver, Eshetu Taru (Eth) Bronze

1984
10000m Mike Musyoki (Ken) Bronze
3000m Steeplechase Julius Korir (Ken) Gold

1988
800m Paul Ereng (Ken) Gold
1500m Peter Rono (Ken) Gold
5000m John Ngugi (Ken) Gold
10000m Kip Kieli (Ken) Bronze
3000m Steeplechase Julius Kariuki (Ken) Gold, Peter Koech (Ken)

So you're absolutely right. The Eastern Africans achieved nothing before the 90s and it's all down to EPO. (To help your counting , 'barely participating' yielded 12 Gold medals, 7 Silver and 7 Bronze).
 
Mar 4, 2010
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Mambo95 said:
The Olympics:

1968
1500m Kip Keino (Ken) Gold
5000m Kip Keino (Ken) Silver, Taftali Temu (Ken) Bronze
10000m Taftali Temu (Kenya) Gold, Mamo Wolde (Eth), Silver
Marathon Mamo Wolde (Eth) Gold
3000m Steeplechase Amos Bowiott (Ken) Gold, Ben Kogo (Ken) Silver

1972
1500m Kip Keino (Ken) Silver
3000m Steeplechase Kip Keino (Ken) Gold, Ben Jipcho (Ken)
Marathon Mamo Wolde (Eth) Bronze

1976 - African boycott because of Kiwi rugby players

1980
5000m Miruts Yifter (Eth) Gold, Sul Nabambui (Tan) Silver
10000m Miruts Yofter (Eth) Gold, Mohammed Kedir (Eth) Bronze
3000m Steeplechase Filbert Bayi (Tan) Silver, Eshetu Taru (Eth) Bronze

1984
10000m Mike Musyoki (Ken) Bronze
3000m Steeplechase Julius Korir (Ken) Gold

1988
800m Paul Ereng (Ken) Gold
1500m Peter Rono (Ken) Gold
5000m John Ngugi (Ken) Gold
10000m Kip Kieli (Ken) Bronze
3000m Steeplechase Julius Kariuki (Ken) Gold, Peter Koech (Ken)

So you're absolutely right. The Eastern Africans achieved nothing before the 90s and it's all down to EPO. (To help your counting , 'barely participating' yielded 12 Gold medals, 7 Silver and 7 Bronze).
Are you stupid? It is an undeniable fact that EA's improved by leaps and bounds during the EPO-era. I was merely pointing out that the nice explanation for this is that they did not participate in large numbers before the EPO-era, so it's really just a coincidence. Do you have another explanation for this drastic improvement that doesn't involve EPO or are you so clueless that you're denying that this massive improvement took place?
 
Jul 2, 2009
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Tyler'sTwin said:
Are you stupid? It is an undeniable fact that EA's improved by leaps and bounds during the EPO-era. I was merely pointing out that the nice explanation for this is that they did not participate in large numbers before the EPO-era, so it's really just a coincidence. Do you have another explanation for this drastic improvement that doesn't involve EPO or are you so clueless that you're denying that this massive improvement took place?
**** edited by mod You argue that prior to the 90s they did not participate in large numbers, 'barely participating' you said, but yet they achieved incredible results from 68-88, especially for third world countries.

Then they participate in bigger numbers and their results improve - this is hardly surprising, particularly when you take into account the team tactics they employ. They're just genetically superior - no EPO required.

If it was all down to EPO, why weren't countries far richer than them reaping the benefits?
 
Mar 4, 2010
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Mambo95 said:
***edited by mod. You argue that prior to the 90s they did not participate in large numbers, 'barely participating' you said, but yet they achieved incredible results from 68-88, especially for third world countries.

Then they participate in bigger numbers and their results improve - this is hardly surprising, particularly when you take into account the team tactics they employ. They're just genetically superior - no EPO required.

If it was all down to EPO, why weren't countries far richer than them reaping the benefits?
*** edited by mod When someone said that EA's improved a lot in the 90's, I pointed out that this is usually explained by them participating in much larger numbers, and now you're saying the very same thing *** edited by mod

Other countries ARE clearly blood boosting. How else would you explain the ridiculous number of >50% crits and the presence of actovegin at the 2006 EC?
 
May 18, 2009
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Mambo95 said:
....
If it was all down to EPO, why weren't countries far richer than them reaping the benefits?
Agreed. TylersTwin discounts the training benefits of running from lions, hyenas, and other animals over there, especially at altitude.

It's like being locked in a hyperbolic tent with some pit bulls on crack. Just sleeping in it will give you benefits, but you mix in that other shyt and homeboy from the city on EPO aint got no chance.
 

Oncearunner8

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Dec 10, 2009
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ChrisE said:
Agreed. TylersTwin discounts the training benefits of running from lions, hyenas, and other animals over there, especially at altitude.

It's like being locked in a hyperbolic tent with some pit bulls on crack. Just sleeping in it will give you benefits, but you mix in that other shyt and homeboy from the city on EPO aint got no chance.
Almost as good as a Vitamin B shot from Chris Chomical!
 
Mar 20, 2009
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Jon Brown always reckoned that he was the best clean European marathoner, but that the east africans were on a different planet. They run differently. If you're not sure, stand on Central Park South as the first 20 go by and look at the differences in gait between the winners and losers. Lots of theories why - genetics, barefoot whilst young etc. Haile still crooks his left arm when he's tired because he learned to run by doing 10km to school and back every day and used to carry his books under his left arm.

There's a lot of reasons why they are superior distance runners, the cancer that afflicts cycling and T+F sprinting isn't one of them.

I live near them in Teddington and see them when I'm running in Bushey Park. Great to watch.

I was once cycling in Richmond Park and caught what I thought was a mountain-biker (no up/down movement at all) but when I got closer I realised it was an African runner. He had a t-shirt on that said "It's not the winning, it's the taking apart". Fantastic.
 

buckwheat

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Sep 24, 2009
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keen_but_slow said:
There's a lot of reasons why they are superior distance runners, the cancer that afflicts cycling and T+F sprinting isn't one of them.
Please explain HG's 12:44, 5000, in '93? after years of incremental improvement by other freaks like Henry Rono. Also the 26 1/2 and change 10,000 in the same time period. Why associate with a seedy Dutch manager JH? That whole situation is like Rominger being a manager for cyclists. IOW, Gimmee a break.
 

buckwheat

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Sep 24, 2009
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Le breton said:
what is that?
A hyperbolic tent cuts off O2 to one's brain and causes that individuals brain cells to die. This results in wild exaggeration and senseless argument.
 
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