Are Kenyan runners doped?

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Aug 13, 2009
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Tyler'sTwin said:
There's a big thread about kenyans and doping at letsrun.com

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3254840&page=0

One of the italians who coach kenyans - Renato Canova - showed up (yes, he actually posts there) and claimed EPO doesn't work.



I also like this quote.



From another thread.



I guess WADA must be testing the kenyans like crazy, because the IAAF sure doesn't.

http://www.iaaf.org/mm/Document/Antidoping/TestingStatistics/04/93/88/20090226015901_httppostedfile_TestedAthletes2008-Final_8894.xls

No blood tests are performed in Africa according to anti-doping expert Bengt Saltin.
This just in, Dr. Ferrari says he only gives Armstrong advice about interval training
 
Mar 4, 2010
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This guy is gold.

Renato Canova said:
There was a very interesting research from a group of scientists Danish / Spanish, that showed how some athlete, working in altitude for about 3 months in very hard aerobic direction, CAN INCREASE HIS GLOBAL VOLUME OF BLOOD OF ABOUT 20/25 &#37]
 
May 18, 2009
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petethedrummer said:
They don't spend their time running from animals. :rolleyes:
You know, before the advent of the Discovery Channel I might have given you the benefit of the doubt because I do not have firsthand experience with evasive animal maneuvers in Kenya.

But, I have seen on TV that this is for real. I am glad LA was able to sponsor Discovery Channel in 2005 to help them increase their income so we can learn about training habits in other countries.
 
Jun 21, 2009
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Cloxxki said:
Are Norwegian cross-country skiers all doped, because they're consistent?
other than petter northug jr, none of them have been consistent (as in reaching the podium a few times a season) for many years

Cloxxki said:
Or might it help that XC racing is live on prime time television,
well it could've helped, but it isn't. Is 9-12am on a saturday or sunday really prime time for telly wherever you live

Cloxxki said:
and the XC stars, national stars more than football players, cyclists, and runners?
but they aren't. football is the biggest sport in norway and other than (again) petter northug no XC skiers can be considered big stars



also, there's one thing that might explain how an undoped skier can compete with dopers - the equipment. I know norway spend huge to have the best skis - this is not far from being economical doping as it gives their skiers huge advantages over those from countries who won't spend
££££££££'s to help their athletes in this sport.
 
Mar 4, 2010
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workingclasshero said:
other than petter northug jr, none of them have been consistent (as in reaching the podium a few times a season) for many years



well it could've helped, but it isn't. Is 9-12am on a saturday or sunday really prime time for telly wherever you live



but they aren't. football is the biggest sport in norway and other than (again) petter northug no XC skiers can be considered big stars



also, there's one thing that might explain how an undoped skier can compete with dopers - the equipment. I know norway spend huge to have the best skis - this is not far from being economical doping as it gives their skiers huge advantages over those from countries who won't spend
££££££££'s to help their athletes in this sport.
XC skiing is easily one of the most popular sports in norway (probably the most popular after soccer/football) and the ratings are great. The other skiers not being stars may have something to do with the fact that they are mediocre.
 
Jun 21, 2009
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Tyler'sTwin said:
XC skiing is easily one of the most popular sports in norway (probably the most popular after soccer/football) and the ratings are great. The other skiers not being stars may have something to do with the fact that they are mediocre.
ho ho ho that added a lot to the post you quoted :rolleyes: thanks for the insight
 
Mar 4, 2010
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workingclasshero said:
ho ho ho that added a lot to the post you quoted :rolleyes: thanks for the insight
Well, you seem to be arguing that XC skiing isn't a particularly popular sport in Norway. It is in fact quite popular and the outstanding skiers are among the most popular athletes in all scandinavian countries, except for Denmark of course. If your point was merely that mediocre skiers aren't big stars then that is a given and I don't know why you'd waste your time stating something so obvious.
 
Jun 21, 2009
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Tyler'sTwin said:
Well, you seem to be arguing that XC skiing isn't a particularly popular sport in Norway. It is in fact quite popular and the outstanding skiers are among the most popular athletes in all scandinavian countries, except for Denmark of course. If your point was merely that mediocre skiers aren't big stars then that is a given and I don't know why you'd waste your time stating something so obvious.
try reading my post again then tyler'stwit
 
Apr 18, 2010
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going back to east african runners on epo. i have trained with a couple of them and their trainning regimens are quite different from their american counterparts. for example they target plyometric drills as much as sprinters do. their gait looks different because they work on it too. look at they guys climbing on their bikes some of them had had more time on their bikes that becomes evident by their cadence and smooth pedaling. as somebody mention kenians run to get around. epo is still popular in the running world but it is less prevalent as a marathon is a 1 day event and pain tolerance is more important than vo2max.
 
Oct 16, 2009
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Probably not. They do have guns in Africa. In fact, they have a lot of 'em.

Maybe they used to back in Olden Times. But even then, I think it's more likely they ran (less deadly) animals to death as a method of hunting, rather than spending their days dodging cheetahs.

Hmm. Maybe we should ask that Renato Canova guy?
 
Apr 18, 2010
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well one thing that can be a contributing factor is that running is their only way out of poverty. look at african american athletes most of them come from the lower-middle class. and no most of the time they are not running from animals but to get to places. when i came to the u.s. 10 years ago i was smoking everybody on the mile except the best two runners on the t&f team. i had not practice running and only play soccer when younger. i would like to think that it was my parents that were from the high sierras in oaxaca and me living in mexico city. also the education that my parents gave me. i was never too disciplined but i was never a whining kid. i live in oaxaca for two years before i came to the u.s. and i remember we use to get early in the morning and walk 3 miles down to get water from the river and take a bath and come back up carrying 10- 15 gallons of water. kenninans have a similar approach to daily activities.
 
May 18, 2009
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goggalor said:
Probably not. They do have guns in Africa. In fact, they have a lot of 'em.

Maybe they used to back in Olden Times. But even then, I think it's more likely they ran (less deadly) animals to death as a method of hunting, rather than spending their days dodging cheetahs.
So, this may be Darwin at work. Let me explain.

If the earlier generations of Kenyans used to run from lions, cheetahs, etc. then only the fast would survive.

If the earlier generations had to chase down their food, then only the fast would survive.

It is possible to conclude that the present day Kenyans are the ancestors of the best cheetah outrunning/gazelle catching dudes in earlier times. The slower ones either got eaten or starved.

So, even though this trait is not necessary in present day Kenya due to the influx of guns, the genes are there.

Is this feasible? :confused:
 
May 18, 2009
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petethedrummer said:
NOOOOO. Read this article: http://www.kenyarunners.com/pages/167371/page167371.html?refresh=1112199340095

Unfortunately there is no mention of cheetahs.

Now maybe you could write up your Lion Evading theory and have it published and see will anyone in the scientific community get behind you.
Hey, I'm just tossing this out there for discussion. Just because some link you cite doesn't mention cheetahs does not dismiss the possibility. Sheesh.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Kenyans' oxygen uptake has been studied and they don't differ from the rest of the world, so it's not the altitude. The biomechanics of their running style may be an important factor. Here is a limited study done a few years ago:

http://www.jssm.org/vol7/n4/12/v7n4-12pdf.pdf

It references other studies on different factors so you can check those out too.

If you go to the IAAF site and look at the fastest times in history for distance events you'll see they are dominated by performances turned in after 1992, especially for the men. Take a look at the 5000 list:

http://www.iaaf.org/statistics/toplists/inout=o/age=n/season=0/sex=M/all=y/legal=A/disc=5000/detail.html

Almost all the times were run in the EPO era. 57 men have run better than Said Aouita's world record from 1987. So yes, Kenyan runners are doped. Do runners from countries like Kenya or Jamaica have an advantage because they get tested less? I'm sure Jamaica does but I'm not sure about Kenya because I don't know enough about their testing program. A runner like Pamela Jelimo is as suspicious as Usain Bolt to me but we all know those type performances can come from many different countries.
 
robertocarlos said:
well one thing that can be a contributing factor is that running is their only way out of poverty. look at african american athletes most of them come from the lower-middle class. and no most of the time they are not running from animals but to get to places. when i came to the u.s. 10 years ago i was smoking everybody on the mile except the best two runners on the t&f team. i had not practice running and only play soccer when younger. i would like to think that it was my parents that were from the high sierras in oaxaca and me living in mexico city. also the education that my parents gave me. i was never too disciplined but i was never a whining kid. i live in oaxaca for two years before i came to the u.s. and i remember we use to get early in the morning and walk 3 miles down to get water from the river and take a bath and come back up carrying 10- 15 gallons of water. kenninans have a similar approach to daily activities.
A friend of mine is a runner and was in Kenya a couple of years ago on a medical relief mission. He ran a local race and was beaten by nearly everyone. Many of the people who beat him did not have shoes. He befriended the winner of the race and paid to bring him to the U.S. for a month. During that time the Kenyan ran three small local races. The money he won was enough to build his mother a house and buy himself a small plot of land.
 
May 18, 2009
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BroDeal said:
They were everywhere, bro. It was a good thing he is a decent marathoner or he surely would have been eaten.
Cool, ok now we are getting somewhere. It seems my theory may have traction in here.
 
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