Are Kenyan runners doped?

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May 18, 2009
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knewcleardaze said:
Your theory on the previous page makes sense to me!
There's more proof.

Have you seen American Flyers? I think the reason cat 5 David was able to beat the Russian and The Cannibal is because that dog chased him early in the movie. That is like a shot of nitrous to a big block Chevy, except the human body doesn't forget that training.

You know, we have alot of wild shyt in Texas; the governor had to shoot a coyote today while jogging. That is probably not the best training method.

I have never heard of LA shooting animals while out training, so I am sure he got chased all over the place. This explains why he kicks a$$.
 
I worked with a guy who was a commonwealth games 10,000m finalist. He said that there is no doubt the Africans dope, and European managers have had a fair bit to do with it.
He also told me not to fall for the "poor, simple Africans who wouldnt know how to dope" line.
 
Jun 13, 2009
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ChrisE said:
Cool, ok now we are getting somewhere. It seems my theory may have traction in here.
Your theory has merit, but I'd have thought that Australians would be better runners given our plague of man eating kangaroos and wombats! Gotta be fast to get away from those hungry *******s!
 
Nick777 said:
I worked with a guy who was a commonwealth games 10,000m finalist. He said that there is no doubt the Africans dope, and European managers have had a fair bit to do with it.
He also told me not to fall for the "poor, simple Africans who wouldnt know how to dope" line.
Let me guess, he didn't win that final, and some Africans managed to get across the line faster? Guess what, Africans that win, train pretty nicely to get that far. And, not being born in a rich western family can give some distinct health traits.

One can only express lack of doubt of someone doping, when analysing their samples, or seeing them inject themselves with syringes when they are not diabetis patients.

Are Jamaicans all doped for sprinting faster and jumping further? Clearly the Jamaican long distance runners are much cleaner, they're slow!
What about Chinese tabletennis players? They rule the sport, thanks to dope?

At the track practice this week, I was left in the dust by a Spanish/Maroccan 15 y/o boy. He's less expierenced in sports, so obviously he was doped.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Cloxxki said:
Let me guess, he didn't win that final, and some Africans managed to get across the line faster? Guess what, Africans that win, train pretty nicely to get that far. And, not being born in a rich western family can give some distinct health traits.

One can only express lack of doubt of someone doping, when analysing their samples, or seeing them inject themselves with syringes when they are not diabetis patients.

Are Jamaicans all doped for sprinting faster and jumping further? Clearly the Jamaican long distance runners are much cleaner, they're slow!
What about Chinese tabletennis players? They rule the sport, thanks to dope?

At the track practice this week, I was left in the dust by a Spanish/Maroccan 15 y/o boy. He's less expierenced in sports, so obviously he was doped.
Well said...I think that it has gotten to the point that when you are beaten by someone surely they dope cause you are clean...this is the norm. I watched the Penn Relays last weekend and was amazed at the Jamaican highschool boys teams that were sprinting!! WOW!! To be honest, it never occured to me they were doing PEDs. What did occur to me was that sprinting on the track is huge in Jamaica and they are developing some fantastic young talent. Maybe I'm wrong...but I hope not.
 
Cloxxki said:
Let me guess, he didn't win that final, and some Africans managed to get across the line faster? Guess what, Africans that win, train pretty nicely to get that far. And, not being born in a rich western family can give some distinct health traits.

One can only express lack of doubt of someone doping, when analysing their samples, or seeing them inject themselves with syringes when they are not diabetis patients.

Are Jamaicans all doped for sprinting faster and jumping further? Clearly the Jamaican long distance runners are much cleaner, they're slow!
What about Chinese tabletennis players? They rule the sport, thanks to dope?

At the track practice this week, I was left in the dust by a Spanish/Maroccan 15 y/o boy. He's less expierenced in sports, so obviously he was doped.
I think he was 5th or 6th & this was well before the time that he said drugs became prevalent in Africa, so he had no doubt he was beaten fair & square.

Do a little research - it's pretty obvious what went on if you look at a) the amazing world records that were set in the mid-late 90's b) the sheer volume of people who could suddenly run under the previous WR's & c) the length of time some of these records have stood for since EPO testing came in.

Noah Ngeny is one guy who comes to mind - his retirement was suspiscious to say the least.
 

buckwheat

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Sep 24, 2009
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It is impossible for Africans to dope because they are at the apex or moral thought.

Such ethical paragons would never even consider doping as a way to escape tremendous economic hardship.

That's just the kind of people they are.

They are practically saints.

Both Bekele and Gebrselassie have the spark of Zeus emblazoned on their hearts.

This is why they are great champions.

I both carry and wash their jockstraps and lick their shoes and spikes that have carried them to great victories For Make Benefit of Glorious Nation of Kazahkstan, I mean Ethiopia.

Thank you.

you can substitute Vino or lance in there if you like.
 
Apr 18, 2010
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buckwheat said:
It is impossible for Africans to dope because they are at the apex or moral thought.

Such ethical paragons would never even consider doping as a way to escape tremendous economic hardship.

That's just the kind of people they are.

They are practically saints.

Both Bekele and Gebrselassie have the spark of Zeus emblazoned on their hearts.

This is why they are great champions.

I both carry and wash their jockstraps and lick their shoes and spikes that have carried them to great victories For Make Benefit of Glorious Nation of Kazahkstan, I mean Ethiopia.

Thank you.

you can substitute Vino or lance in there if you like.
neither does allan webb nor ryan hall, or dena drossin ( radcliff) who dated my coach back in college. a lot of people super estimate the value of epo. running is a hard an painful sport even more than cycling. all of olympic professional level runners have acces to the same ped but having a that pain tolerance and injury free season is what really comes down to in the end. in college as soon as freshmens start racing 6 miles instead of 3 they start getting injured. if i have a v02max of 90 but have a bad technique and cannot handle pain might as well stop trying.
 
May 9, 2009
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robertocarlos said:
neither does allan webb nor ryan hall, or dena drossin ( radcliff) who dated my coach back in college.
I think you mean Deena Drossin Kastor, not Radcliff (Paula Radcliffe is the world record holder in women's marathon).

Speaking of non-Kenyan runners, Chris Solinsky just shattered the American record (from 27:13 to 26:59) in his debut at 10,000 meters tonight at Stanford and became the first white guy ever under 27min. They were running 65 second laps to be under the AR record pace and Solinsky took the lead with 900 to go and closed the last two laps in 60 and 57!

All the clinic regulars will surely regard it with suspicion but that's their problem. To me it was simply brilliant. One of the most amazing things I've ever seen in running and his interview immediately afterwards was great.
 
Apr 8, 2009
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PACONi said:
Your theory has merit, but I'd have thought that Australians would be better runners given our plague of man eating kangaroos and wombats! Gotta be fast to get away from those hungry *******s!
This is why the Aussie swimmers are so good. Most of them train in the rivers near Darwin. The slower ones become croc food.
 
Mar 4, 2010
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2009 26:46.31 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH)
2008 26:25.97 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH)
2007 26:46.19 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH)
2006 26:35.63 Micah Kogo (KEN)
2005 26:17.53 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH)
2004 26:20.31 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH)
2003 26:29.22 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH)
2002 26:49.38 Sammy Kipketer (KEN)
2001 27:04.20 Abraham Chebii (KEN)
2000 27:03.87 Paul Tergat (KEN)
1999 26:51.49 Charles Kamathi (KEN)
1998 26:22.75 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH)
1997 26:27.85 Paul Tergat (KEN)
1996 26:38.08 Salah Hissou (MAR)
1995 26:43.53 Haile Gebrselassie
1994 26:52.23 William Sigei (KEN)
1993 26:58.38 Yobes Ondieki (KEN)
1992 27:14.26 Fita Bayissa (ETH)
1991 27:11.18 Richard Chelimo (KEN)
1990 27:18.22 Arturo Barrios (MEX)
1989 27:08.23 Arturo Barrios (MEX)
1988 27:21.46 Brahim Boutayeb (MAR)
1987 27:26.95 Francesco Panetta (ITA)
1986 27:20.56 Mark Nenow (USA)
1985 27:37.17 Bruce Bickford (USA)
1984 27:13.81 Fernando Mamede (POR)
1983 27:23.44 Carlos Lopes (POR)
1982 27:22.95 Fernando Mamede (POR)
1981 27:27.7 Fernando Mamede (POR)
1980 27:29.16 Craig Virgin (USA)
1979 27:36.8 Karl Fleschen (FRG)
1978 27:22.47 Henry Rono (KEN)
1977 27:30.47 Samson Kimobwa (KEN)
1976 27:40.38 Lasse Viren (FIN)
1975 27:45.43 Brendan Foster (GBR)
1974 27:43.6 Steve Prefontaine (USA)
1973 27:30.80 David Bedford (GBR)
1972 27:38.35 Lasse Viren (FIN)
1971 27:47.0 David Bedford (GBR)
1970 >27:59.99 ?
1969 >27:59.99 ?
1968 27:49.4 Ron Clarke (AUS)
1967 >27:59.99 ?
1966 27:54.0 Ron Clarke (AUS)
1965 27:39.89 Ron Clarke (AUS)

Interesting how noone could get below 27 min for a couple of years after the EPO test was introduced, eh?
 
Tyler'sTwin said:
2009 26:46.31 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH)
2008 26:25.97 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH)
2007 26:46.19 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH)
2006 26:35.63 Micah Kogo (KEN)
2005 26:17.53 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH)
2004 26:20.31 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH)
2003 26:29.22 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH)
2002 26:49.38 Sammy Kipketer (KEN)
2001 27:04.20 Abraham Chebii (KEN)
2000 27:03.87 Paul Tergat (KEN)
1999 26:51.49 Charles Kamathi (KEN)
1998 26:22.75 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH)
1997 26:27.85 Paul Tergat (KEN)
1996 26:38.08 Salah Hissou (MAR)
1995 26:43.53 Haile Gebrselassie
1994 26:52.23 William Sigei (KEN)
1993 26:58.38 Yobes Ondieki (KEN)
1992 27:14.26 Fita Bayissa (ETH)
1991 27:11.18 Richard Chelimo (KEN)
1990 27:18.22 Arturo Barrios (MEX)
1989 27:08.23 Arturo Barrios (MEX)
1988 27:21.46 Brahim Boutayeb (MAR)
1987 27:26.95 Francesco Panetta (ITA)
1986 27:20.56 Mark Nenow (USA)
1985 27:37.17 Bruce Bickford (USA)
1984 27:13.81 Fernando Mamede (POR)
1983 27:23.44 Carlos Lopes (POR)
1982 27:22.95 Fernando Mamede (POR)
1981 27:27.7 Fernando Mamede (POR)
1980 27:29.16 Craig Virgin (USA)
1979 27:36.8 Karl Fleschen (FRG)
1978 27:22.47 Henry Rono (KEN)
1977 27:30.47 Samson Kimobwa (KEN)
1976 27:40.38 Lasse Viren (FIN)
1975 27:45.43 Brendan Foster (GBR)
1974 27:43.6 Steve Prefontaine (USA)
1973 27:30.80 David Bedford (GBR)
1972 27:38.35 Lasse Viren (FIN)
1971 27:47.0 David Bedford (GBR)
1970 >27:59.99 ?
1969 >27:59.99 ?
1968 27:49.4 Ron Clarke (AUS)
1967 >27:59.99 ?
1966 27:54.0 Ron Clarke (AUS)
1965 27:39.89 Ron Clarke (AUS)

Interesting how noone could get below 27 min for a couple of years after the EPO test was introduced, eh?
Interesting that you resurect this thread today. the 14 year old 800m record has just been broken. whats up with that
 
May 13, 2009
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The Hitch said:
Interesting that you resurect this thread today. the 14 year old 800m record has just been broken. whats up with that
Are you talking about the record of the lovely Jarmila?



ETA: I used my google-fu and found her record from 1983 still stands. So it's the men's record.
 
Cobblestones said:
Are you talking about the record of the lovely Jarmila?



ETA: I used my google-fu and found her record from 1983 still stands. So it's the men's record.
David Lekuta Rudisha broke the world record of nelson kipter (also kenyan, but running for denmark) which stood since 97, by 0.02 seconds.
 
Graphically I think it is quite compelling:



Blue is pre-EPO, Red is EPO years, 1998-2000 had a number of scandals that probably had people more cautious, or maybe it was courses, temperature...who knows. Blue and red difference is striking.

Tyler'sTwin said:
2009 26:46.31 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH)
2008 26:25.97 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH)
2007 26:46.19 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH)
2006 26:35.63 Micah Kogo (KEN)
2005 26:17.53 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH)
2004 26:20.31 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH)
2003 26:29.22 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH)
2002 26:49.38 Sammy Kipketer (KEN)
2001 27:04.20 Abraham Chebii (KEN)
2000 27:03.87 Paul Tergat (KEN)
1999 26:51.49 Charles Kamathi (KEN)
1998 26:22.75 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH)
1997 26:27.85 Paul Tergat (KEN)
1996 26:38.08 Salah Hissou (MAR)
1995 26:43.53 Haile Gebrselassie
1994 26:52.23 William Sigei (KEN)
1993 26:58.38 Yobes Ondieki (KEN)
1992 27:14.26 Fita Bayissa (ETH)
1991 27:11.18 Richard Chelimo (KEN)
1990 27:18.22 Arturo Barrios (MEX)
1989 27:08.23 Arturo Barrios (MEX)
1988 27:21.46 Brahim Boutayeb (MAR)
1987 27:26.95 Francesco Panetta (ITA)
1986 27:20.56 Mark Nenow (USA)
1985 27:37.17 Bruce Bickford (USA)
1984 27:13.81 Fernando Mamede (POR)
1983 27:23.44 Carlos Lopes (POR)
1982 27:22.95 Fernando Mamede (POR)
1981 27:27.7 Fernando Mamede (POR)
1980 27:29.16 Craig Virgin (USA)
1979 27:36.8 Karl Fleschen (FRG)
1978 27:22.47 Henry Rono (KEN)
1977 27:30.47 Samson Kimobwa (KEN)
1976 27:40.38 Lasse Viren (FIN)
1975 27:45.43 Brendan Foster (GBR)
1974 27:43.6 Steve Prefontaine (USA)
1973 27:30.80 David Bedford (GBR)
1972 27:38.35 Lasse Viren (FIN)
1971 27:47.0 David Bedford (GBR)
1970 >27:59.99 ?
1969 >27:59.99 ?
1968 27:49.4 Ron Clarke (AUS)
1967 >27:59.99 ?
1966 27:54.0 Ron Clarke (AUS)
1965 27:39.89 Ron Clarke (AUS)

Interesting how noone could get below 27 min for a couple of years after the EPO test was introduced, eh?
 

Polish

BANNED
Mar 11, 2009
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Tyler'sTwin said:
2009 26:46.31 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH)
2008 26:25.97 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH)
2007 26:46.19 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH)
2006 26:35.63 Micah Kogo (KEN)
2005 26:17.53 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH)
2004 26:20.31 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH)
2003 26:29.22 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH)
2002 26:49.38 Sammy Kipketer (KEN)
2001 27:04.20 Abraham Chebii (KEN)
2000 27:03.87 Paul Tergat (KEN)
1999 26:51.49 Charles Kamathi (KEN)
1998 26:22.75 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH)
1997 26:27.85 Paul Tergat (KEN)
1996 26:38.08 Salah Hissou (MAR)
1995 26:43.53 Haile Gebrselassie
1994 26:52.23 William Sigei (KEN)
1993 26:58.38 Yobes Ondieki (KEN)
1992 27:14.26 Fita Bayissa (ETH)
1991 27:11.18 Richard Chelimo (KEN)
1990 27:18.22 Arturo Barrios (MEX)
1989 27:08.23 Arturo Barrios (MEX)
1988 27:21.46 Brahim Boutayeb (MAR)
1987 27:26.95 Francesco Panetta (ITA)
1986 27:20.56 Mark Nenow (USA)
1985 27:37.17 Bruce Bickford (USA)
1984 27:13.81 Fernando Mamede (POR)
1983 27:23.44 Carlos Lopes (POR)
1982 27:22.95 Fernando Mamede (POR)
1981 27:27.7 Fernando Mamede (POR)
1980 27:29.16 Craig Virgin (USA)
1979 27:36.8 Karl Fleschen (FRG)
1978 27:22.47 Henry Rono (KEN)
1977 27:30.47 Samson Kimobwa (KEN)
1976 27:40.38 Lasse Viren (FIN)
1975 27:45.43 Brendan Foster (GBR)
1974 27:43.6 Steve Prefontaine (USA)
1973 27:30.80 David Bedford (GBR)
1972 27:38.35 Lasse Viren (FIN)
1971 27:47.0 David Bedford (GBR)
1970 >27:59.99 ?
1969 >27:59.99 ?
1968 27:49.4 Ron Clarke (AUS)
1967 >27:59.99 ?
1966 27:54.0 Ron Clarke (AUS)
1965 27:39.89 Ron Clarke (AUS)

Interesting how noone could get below 27 min for a couple of years after the EPO test was introduced, eh?
In the TEN years of the EPO era 1990 to 1999, there were NINE different runners who were the fastest.

Clear evidence, proof really, that donkeys were being transformed into thoroughbreds.

Now if there was a runner who won 7 years straight, you would know for sure that you have a TRUE Thoroughbred!

Also interesting....the last 2 Americans to make the list were back in the Eddie B Blood Transfusing Era 1985/1986...
 
May 26, 2010
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Polish said:
In the TEN years of the EPO era 1990 to 1999, there were NINE different runners who were the fastest.

Clear evidence, proof really, that donkeys were being transformed into thoroughbreds.

Now if there was a runner who won 7 years straight, you would know for sure that you have a TRUE Thoroughbred!

Also interesting....the last 2 Americans to make the list were back in the Eddie B Blood Transfusing Era 1985/1986...
keep polishing his ball....:D
 
May 18, 2009
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Angliru said:
I can't believe you actually dignified that idiotic statement with a response.
Does he think the continent is one gigantic safari?
Have you read this thread? Nobody has disproved my theory about why Kenyans do so well in running events. You saying it is "idiotic" does not add substance to the debate.

And, you can ask me directly what I think. Petethedrummer does not have insight on my thoughts. :rolleyes:
 
Jul 4, 2009
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buckwheat said:
It is impossible for Africans to dope because they are at the apex or moral thought.

Such ethical paragons would never even consider doping as a way to escape tremendous economic hardship.

That's just the kind of people they are.

They are practically saints.

Both Bekele and Gebrselassie have the spark of Zeus emblazoned on their hearts.

This is why they are great champions.

I both carry and wash their jockstraps and lick their shoes and spikes that have carried them to great victories For Make Benefit of Glorious Nation of Kazahkstan, I mean Ethiopia.

Thank you.

you can substitute Vino or lance in there if you like.
...I tried being strong...honest I did...but I couldn't help myself...

...and if you don't mind, I substitute Greg....there, I said it...and yes I feel rally bad about that, but opportunities like this don't appear every day...

...thanks for the lead-out Mr Wheat...you were like a semi @ 90 mph...honest you were...

...carry on...

Cheers

blutto
 
Tyler'sTwin said:
Interesting how noone could get below 27 min for a couple of years after the EPO test was introduced, eh?
Except that the test was introduced in 2001. Those two years when no one broke 27 minutes were mostly test-free, and soon after the test was begun to be applied, the times fell again.

Athletic performances are too complex, depending on too many factors, to be explained by a single theory, even one as important as doping.
 
The Hitch said:
David Lekuta Rudisha broke the world record of nelson kipter (also kenyan, but running for denmark) which stood since 97, by 0.02 seconds.
I will echo what I wrote on a native forum.
I am delighted with the new WR, even if it's barely faster.

Look at the guy Rudisha. Tall for a Kenyan. Strong like a sprinter. Young, very dedicated. Super good support team. And, don't forget, 2010 anti doping tests to deal with. A bit different from the late 90's, and I say this even though I am really charmed by Wilson Kipketer's personality from a recent interview I saw.

Rudisha is like Bolt. He looks like a runner built for his distance, just add 10-15cm to the typical body height you'd expect. A twice as tall runner, all else being the same (making him 8x heavier) WILL beat the man-sized runner. At just 5% taller, the difference is less obvious, seems like a wash. But IMO it shouldn't. In running, height is an advantage, and Rudisha seems to have been born, raised, and now nurtured for these kinds of runs. I hope we see more of him, and I hope more tall runners will be inspired.

I'm 1m94, currently 91kg. A really windy evening at the running track tonight. I seemed to be at an advantage both with tail- and headwind, compared to equal running mates. We train like 800-3000m racers. I am just too fat too race for now.
In cycling, being tall is only worth it if your legs are relatively short. Mine are long, so I'm slow in a straigth line.

Kenya is showing the rest of the world where it's at with dedication.

The EPO era, I cannot deny. My country still has some national records from that era, times wich are rrely matched even by African runners today, which makes me feel uncomfortable.
 
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