Benotti69 said:
Dude i can hook you up with my dealer, M50 he has the best stuff, tests it out on a donkey who goes by the name Pedro.
Darn I was just about to answer your answer to my why personal and then you post this. I have been at you to give us a little more than these kind of answers and I had you talking. Another appropriate illustration, this time of one of your points. A bird does not change the colour of his feathers.
Ok I will give a little serious here.
All pro sports are business and so are a few amateur ones too. I see who is in the sport. I work with them too. Bjarn has a catalogue of commissaires I assume to plan for our outlook and the kind of decisions we make. I have no problem seeing him leave the sport and watching is Johan.
Why dial the doping down? cost / benefit ratio. the cost is rising and the benefit is dropping.
Do you think the stuff LA is dealing with right now is not scaring just a few of his peers? This one is still a far one as the cost is not settled yet but it is possible that LA might pay more than he collected. Not sure how that will work out.
Benefit. This by far is the hardest point for you to make. Mr. 65% does not exist any more. the 50% thing was hard to enforce as most riders would be hydrated in the morning and I know the vampires were prepared for. Bio passport has turned it down a lot. riders cannot afford the very close and organized doping program to manipulate their blood so closely especially with the increasingly watchful eye of the various police forces. If your natural best HC is 46 then you are not trying to hold 48 but 46. My point is what ever they are boosting it is likely so close to their best natural performances that why take all the risk for 1/2 a percent?
The costs are higher, there are possible jail penalties and certainly we are seeing more of it in increments. The sport is changing. I think it is apparent and obvious. Racing today is so much different than the 1980s too. today the do go from the gun at the tour and the do it for 3 weeks. That is incredibly hard but unlike the 1980s most of these guys get a break after a GT. The doping back then had little to do with going faster, longer or harder. Doping was to stay awake, manage the pain and recover. About the only true performance enhancer was testosterone but the way they used it was to recover. Often the pros of yore lost muscle mass over the season because they raced too many days and catabolized their muscles. Testosterone helped offset that by boosting muscle growth and compensating for sever low T levels common to racers then. Of course way back then pros did not get 2 year bans but 1 or 2 month suspensions. there are lots of old guys who wax poetic of those days like it was a right of passage to take you first pot belge.
All things being equal it is certainly possible for a rider coming into the sport to race clean and get results according to their talent. It is possible for a past doper to stop and still keep his job, not to mention save on the doping products and possibly getting caught.
Do we ned to be vigilant? Oh yes I'll take your side on that one. I agree there are a lot of dirty players still in the game. Is there still cheating? as you say it is human nature but so is honour.
As for Tony Martin? World TT champ wins a breakaway? This guy is strong. about as strong as a cyclist can get. I am just watching the stage again. I switched to todays coverage and yes Tony is looking good in polka dots. I am sure you noticed how slow he was going when he hit the climb too? Tomorrow iS REST DAY.
Is that super human or honest you ask. Honest! completely possible!
In Canada there are 3 places where cycling is crazy; lower mainland and Victoria/ Quebec /some part of Ontario. This is where the pros come from or go to. there are several layers of ability which just becomes obvious the more of these guys you see.
You got your cat 1/2 and for the most part these are the guys that are at the end of any group ride after they already did 100 km earlier. Pros are the guys who drop them.
I am a cat 4 with 1 or two cat 1 moments and a few cat 3 days. I was an official for 25 years and have watched more bike racers 50 to 60 days a year from the gun to the checker flag and it looks like it is changing to me.
As much as I hope what I see is the change I am often angry at the clinic in general but I admit I have taken a special offence at most of your posts. This is the first thread I have read anything from you that suggests you have experience at the sport or any rational for your glib jabs. I want more of this and a lot less of your usual junk. This has a chance at enhancing the discussion the other stuff is fluff.
BTW I do mean to say thanks for the expanded conversation. I hope I can get some of it again without making it personal. You may P me off most of the time but I am willing to let you try to change my mind.